The Ottomans

[TXMENIAN]

Re: We are not empire seekers

The Turks are in a process of evolution

The longer it takes them to stand up and admit their crimes, the longer this process will take.

[Hellektor]

Re: We are not empire seekers

The Turks are in a process of evolution

Amen.

[lampron]

Re: We are not empire seekers

You only underscore the trader side of the Armenians but totally dismiss my point of Armenians being cultural and Turks the complete antithesis of that: destroyers with no respect for others' (especially Armenians') artistic and cultural heritage. With the exception of the Arabs, none of the other empires: Roman, Persian, British, Greek were such barbaric destroyers of the cultural heritage of the subjected peoples. The sadistic destruction of Armenian monuments by Turks is out of hatred and inhumanity of the Turk creature that wants to erase the evidence of their crimes and falsify history, not to speak of the monstrous extermination of indigenous Armenians, who Turks used for nine centuries, which doesn't have its precendence anywhere.

As I always say, the non-acquisition of certain attributes by Turks in the course of evolution is responsible for their inhumanity and I don't say this out of spite, I really mean it. When I say Turks are Inhuman Civilization-deficiency Viruses, I really mean that the Turk is a human shaped virus, that infects manifestations of civilization and destroys them like AIDS or cancer destroys a healthy body.

I always say Turks have not acquired traits such as remorse, guilt, shame, compassion, honesty, modesty, sincerity, truthfulness, conscience, objectivity, self-criticism, sympathy and understanding for the suffering of others, the ability to share others' pain, the ability to value achievements of civilization such as works of art, places of worship, manuscripts, cities, etc., and the responses I get from Turks just confirm this.

It's more complex than that. There was a vast amount of destruction and massacre when the Seljuks invaded. But a lot of Armenian monastries churches continued to function under the ottomans. The Ottomans treated the Christians as second class citizens, imposed heavy taxes etc, the janissaries etc, all very inhuman, yet there were also less harsh Sultans (like Mehmed II)
Then came the late 19th century, and through to 1921 when yes as we all know terrible things happened. The Armenian was depicted as an enemy and thus the hatred was programmed into the minds of Turks, Kurds, Mujahirs etc by state propaganda. Out of 2 million Armenians there were probably fewer than 300 guerillas.
You confuse state propaganda with genetic disposition. The state has the ability to turn otherwise normal people into monsters. If you watch Turkish satellite TV today you will see Turkish choirs performing music that seems almost as good as Gomidas'. Have the Turks copied from Armenians? probably. As I have said before the Turco-Tatars philosophy from the 11th century is imperialism. The Germans also did not care about suffering (theirs or others) in the name of empire building. The Germans were a European power and in theory more civilized. The Ottomans were from Asia and much more brutal. It's a matter of degree. The Turks are in a process of evolution

[Hellektor]

Re: We are not empire seekers

I do not need to write this post because I have said it all in the previous posts. What the hell:

I disagree. The Ottomans set themselves an objective. To dominate the world, and especially to take over Europe. The Armenians had no such ambition.

What is it that you disagree? I am saying almost the same thing you are saying only you do not pay attention or are not able to fathom the points I am actually emphasizing.

Your answer is in your post. We are not siege people! We are the besieged. ...We are not empire seekers.

While this is morally good, I am not saying this is a good thing in the real world, and do pay attention to this point that confirms I am not praising the Armenians for this:

“...if we had three or four Tigrans in decisive moments of our history, Turkey would never have existed today and Armenia would stretch from the Caspian to the Black Sea to the Mediterranean with a population of 30 million, a Switzerland + Japan in the middle of Asia. Alas and alack...”

It's not genetic. Medieval Asiatic empires were brutal. The Ottomans followed the traditions of Central Asia and Mongolia. I don't think the Armenians are programmed to be liberators. To create a bogus state or to falsify history or to remove Armenian khatchkars are all to do with an imperialistic mentality. In general, with empire building comes arrogance and ruthlessness. Armenians have prided themselves in being top-class traders. The Turks have eclipsed the Armenians in this field too. Turkish "Efes" beer billboards are everywhere in central Moscow. Now that Islamic extremists are losing ground and alcohol is on sale again in Baghdad, "Efes" has become the number one imported beer in Iraq. Where are the Armenian businessmen?

I disagree. It seems you are missing the point; maybe you are unable to get it. The Armenians are a cultural nation. Countless concert pianists, concert violinists, opera singers, composers, sculptors, painters come out of little Armenia whereas the whole Turkic world (Besides the Say guy), indeed the whole Islamic world has hardly produced a single concert pianist or concert violinist or artists of caliber.

You only underscore the trader side of the Armenians but totally dismiss my point of Armenians being cultural and Turks the complete antithesis of that: destroyers with no respect for others' (especially Armenians') artistic and cultural heritage. With the exception of the Arabs, none of the other empires: Roman, Persian, British, Greek were such barbaric destroyers of the cultural heritage of the subjected peoples. The sadistic destruction of Armenian monuments by Turks is out of hatred and inhumanity of the Turk creature that wants to erase the evidence of their crimes and falsify history, not to speak of the monstrous extermination of indigenous Armenians, who Turks used for nine centuries, which doesn't have its precendence anywhere.

As I always say, the non-acquisition of certain attributes by Turks in the course of evolution is responsible for their inhumanity and I don't say this out of spite, I really mean it. When I say Turks are Inhuman Civilization-deficiency Viruses, I really mean that the Turk is a human shaped virus, that infects manifestations of civilization and destroys them like AIDS or cancer destroys a healthy body.

I always say Turks have not acquired traits such as remorse, guilt, shame, compassion, honesty, modesty, sincerity, truthfulness, conscience, objectivity, self-criticism, sympathy and understanding for the suffering of others, the ability to share others' pain, the ability to value achievements of civilization such as works of art, places of worship, manuscripts, cities, etc., and the responses I get from Turks just confirm this.

[Hellektor]

Re: We are not empire seekers

This is where I think differently from the bulk of the Armenians who believe the Turk will be civilized someday.

Not only you think that way; but our greatest general Karekin Nejteh thought the very same way as well as you do.

Dear Anoush,

Just to avoid any misunderstanding from any readers, what I meant was that I didn't want to speak on behalf of any Armenian who would disagree, because unfortunately, the bulk of the Armenians and all non-Armenians think what's between Turks and Armenians is no different than a given case of two feuding parties like say, the Germans and the Dutch or the French and the English.

This is reflected in the attitudes of the Eurofags who say “why can't the Artsakh people agree with a broad autonomy within “Azerbaijan” like in the case of Åland Islands?”, not caring for the facts (among countless others) that:

I. Artsakh has never been part of an independent fake “Azerbaijan”;

II. Artsakh is free and there's no reason why the people who gained their freedom after 70 years of imposed subjugation should give up their independence and voluntarily go under murderous Turkic yoke despite their victory and the Turk's miserable defeat in the war they instigated;

III. Artsakh is no island and its present borders are fraudulently drawn by the “Azeri” garbage to sever this province from the motherland Armenia;

IV. the “Azeris” not only are no human beings, they are (at the moment) the most vicious type of Inhuman Civilization-deficiency Viruses collectively known as Turk, because they are at the beginning of their miserable existence as a “state” and “nation” however absurd these terms may sound in relation to such a worthless, reeking garbage residue as the genocidal, destructive “Azeri” filth.

[TXMENIAN]

Re: The Ottomans

52 country were founded on Ottoman's land . Ottomans were not blood thirty people . If so , there were not any Armenians in Armenian , even İn Türkiye .

Ottomans were Türks so Türks are still here . The oldest nations in the world history ....

Hahahaha,
Is that what your history books tell you?
You need to educate you self because that is a false statement, funny though.

[lampron]

Re: We are not empire seekers

Such invalid statment makes you loose a lot of points over dicussion of who is better business man who is not, lets take a look turkish great enterprenors such as KOC and SABANCI, they had their enourmous fortune by sizing the armenian wealth (golds , real estate and commodities) when the ottomans were bussy eleminating the armenian productive population from 1913 up to 1915 (the last episode took place 1940 of subjecting all the armenians to INPROPORTIONAL heavy taxation ,wealth tax) and now you ignoring all the pased disasterous events that the armenians were subjected ,sitting on your corner smilling over the dead armenians body making your financial calculations asking who is better businessman? you should feel deeply sorry for all the inocent daed armenians who had worked end earn money centuries in Ottoman lemp. and pay more tax than any other muslim citizen.
what is your point,ey

Yes I recognize that that a lot of Turks and Kurds became wealthy on the back of stolen property from Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks etc. I mentioned somewhere the Turkish economy nearly collpased after 1923. They seized textile factories in places like Brusa, Adana. But eventually the Turks were able to work those factories and move into different businesses (with European help it is true - German, Swedish, French, Italian, British). Anatolia, like the Balkans is a very rich land. And now famous designer labels manufactured in Turkey are all over the world. My point is Armenians, Greeks etc have constantly underrated the Ottomans and now the Turks

[ArmSurvival]

Re: The Ottomans

Armenians have prided themselves in being top-class traders. The Turks have eclipsed the Armenians in this field too. Turkish "Efes" beer billboards are everywhere in central Moscow. Now that Islamic extremists are losing ground and alcohol is on sale again in Baghdad, "Efes" has become the number one imported beer in Iraq. Where are the Armenian businessmen?

LOL, having beer billboards in Moscow, where people will drink just about anything including floor polish (true story, check BBC), isn't a sign of success. Anyone can advertise, but can you sell is the real question.

And congratulations, a Turkish beer is the #1 imported beer in a city with the highest mortality rate in the world. What genius businessmen, they do business in a place where most of their customers will be dead within 5 years. Most people in Baghdad not only don't have money for beer, they can barely get clean drinking water. No wonder they are buying Turkish beer, Iraq has virtually no beer industry, they have to import their beer, Turkish beer is probably the cheapest to import, and their beer tastes better than polluted Baghdad water. Where are the Armenian businessmen? Doing business in stable countries.

This is your proof that Turkish traders have "eclipsed" Armenians? Since you like to compare Turks and Armenians, then what do you think about the fact that many of the movies you watch in Turkey and around the world are produced by an Armenian company, MGM? Ever play the game Halo, Halo 2, or Halo 3? Created by an Armenian. Ever had an MRI? Invented by an Armenian. Do you have a single-handle faucet in your home? It was invented by an Armenian. Ever use an auto-focus camera? Invented by an Armenian. I can go on all day.

Even Turkish symbals were created by Armenians (Zildjian and Sabian). The first Turkish dictionary was written by an Armenian. Your best architects were Armenians (Balian family). And if I'm not mistaken, the first theater in the Ottoman Empire was done by an Armenian theatrical group. Even the first Ottoman novel, released in 1851, was written by an Armenian using the Armenian alphabet.

But of course, this is all ignored by Turks, since it has nothing to do with the "great Turkish cultural achievements" of the 1920's: Banning the fez, banning the Kurdish language, switching from one foreign alphabet to another foreign alphabet, and adopting western dress (which Ottoman-Armenians had done over 100 years prior).

And lets not forget their reputation for commercial success: They captured the imported beer market in US-occupied Baghdad

[zatzot]

Re: The Ottomans

Ottomans have been reduced to a couch accessories now. Romans, Persians and apostles are of more import to Armenia's history than blood thirsty Ottomans. Too bad we could not build a wall like the Chinese..

Hahaha...he said 'homo'ist.

Armenia still exists, Ottomans are extinct. Get over it.

52 country were founded on Ottoman's land . Ottomans were not blood thirty people . If so , there were not any Armenians in Armenian , even İn Türkiye .

Ottomans were Türks so Türks are still here . The oldest nations in the world history ....

[lampron]

Re: We are not empire seekers

I can hardly think of an instance in history where Armenians have engaged in a Turk-becoming, sick, sadistic, psychopathic torture of others, by laying a siege to starve and force the inhabitants to surrender themselves and part with their belongings and in most cases be slaughtered.
We are not empire seekers.
Armenians are liberators: from the oldest times as in the case with Cyrus, Armenians have always fought for the rights of the oppressed. History is repeating itself. The “Azeri” garbage perpetrates genocide and instigates a war, loses the war, yet is so brazen that demands territory from the victor; a territory that has never, ever belonged to their bogus state, legally or historically. They have the devil's luck that another tribe, the J people who control the media, are on their side.

This is where I think differently from the bulk of the Armenians who believe the Turk will be civilized someday.

I disagree. The Ottomans set themselves an objective. To dominate the world, and especially to take over Europe. The Armenians had no such ambition. It's not genetic. Medieval Asiatic empires were brutal. The Ottomans followed the traditions of Central Asia and Mongolia. I don't think the Armenians are programmed to be liberators. To create a bogus state or to falsify history or to remove Armenian khatchkars are all to do with an imperialistic mentality. In general, with empire building comes arrogance and ruthlessness. Armenians have prided themselves in being top-class traders. The Turks have eclipsed the Armenians in this field too. Turkish "Efes" beer billboards are everywhere in central Moscow. Now that Islamic extremists are losing ground and alcohol is on sale again in Baghdad, "Efes" has become the number one imported beer in Iraq. Where are the Armenian businessmen?