The Ottomans

[Anoush]

Re: We are not empire seekers

[QUOTE=Hellektor;197625]
This is where I think differently from the bulk of the Armenians who believe the Turk will be civilized someday.[QUOTE]

Not only you think that way; but our greatest general Karekin Nejteh thought the very same way as well as you do. He further said that turks will never be a civilized nation nor rule a country in a civilized manner or be able to fight in a civil way. Unfortunately Hrant Dink hoped and wished the turks to be better in the years to come and accept the fact that they have committed the Armenian Genocide and look what they did to him.

Personally, I believe in Karekin Nejteh and I agree with you.

Recently on Hylur (the news program on the only Armenian satellite channel) the soldiers on the frontier of Artsakh were showing the “Azeri” filth taking their time, doing engineering work, reinforcing their positions in an easy shooting range and in broad daylight. An Armenian soldier said, they know we are good people and we won't shoot. Yet a few days ago they shot and killed two innocent Armenian rural civilians, a young man and an old man. Then they set fire to the area.

And what are the powerful countries doing about it? It is supposed to be peace treaty in the area. But unfortunately yes the media pretty much all around the world is controlled by the J'ews except certain parts of Europe, and yes the J'ews are obviously not on our side.

I believe that the J'ews know our capacity of being smart and able people; and that is reason enough for them to be with the azerbaboons and the turks. They don't wish a bigger and a more powerful Armenia as they know that we may become as powerful as them. And they don't wish another Israel to be put near them in the Caucasus. And more obvious than ever it is the oil issue. Where money (oil) is that's where J'ews, Brits and so forth are.

In the same way, when they were barbarically destroying the Jugha khachkars in broad daylight, they were also sure no one would hurt them and the Jew owned media wouldn't even mention this monstrosity. This was a good chance for Armenia to take back Nakhijevan. They should have carpet bombed Nakhijevan and liberated it or flown a helicopter gunship to shoot those soldiers, an action that would be totally justified even by the anti-Armenian “international” community in case the “Azeri” atrocity would be shameless enough to complain, or at least they should have stopped the Artsakh “negotiations” until the matter was resolved and damages paid by the sore genocidal “Azeri” losers.

Yes unfortunately Armenia stood still and didn't do anything to free our Naxichevan.

This is something the Turk is incapable to fathom, since somewhere down the line throughout these ten or twelve thousand years of civilization, it has missed the train of evolution and has not acquired the necessary human traits: remorse, guilt, shame, compassion, honesty, modesty, sincerity, truthfulness, conscience, objectivity, self-criticism, sympathy and understanding for the suffering of others, the ability to share others' pain, the ability to value achievements of civilization such as works of art, places of worship, manuscripts, cities, etc., which are vital if a two-legged talking creature is to be labeled human being.

And like general Nejteh said; the turk will never change.

Re: The Ottomans

ottoman rulers were very very lucky guys,they had the fortune of felling every time on 4 foot (as we say for cats in general),first they approch to the neighbouring countries as if to help them,then they remained places where they entered as a visitor ,centuries long as a rulers .Bribe was their wapon to buy any local princes or politicans from 15 century and onwards .on this filosofical base they constructed the army of christan youths which they gave the nameYenichery (new warriers).When they were infront of wiena doors the majorty of generals,soldiers were origen christians converted to islam. ottomanizm or turkism is a traditional impire policy which is based to use every minuse oportunity to obtain maximum advantage for the state well being.

Do you not know anything about history?

The whole eras of great empires were based on corruption and lies. Sure, The ottoman Empire decieved a bunch of countrys, but do you think anyone would join with Hitler if he said "I'm going to eradicate the xxxs" (exept Mussulini)

Alexander, for instance lets look back at his "glorious" journey. Did you know at some point after Alexander captured Babylon, his soildiers refused to march any longer? Hence he came up with a diabolical plan, he had to "promise" them that they are going back. However he did not go back home, he marched onwards to conquer more lands, but kept his men in the dark.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: The Ottomans

when the ottomans arrived on the shores of the Marmara sea around 1340AD, most had never seen a ship in their lives. At that time the Armenians of Cilicia controlled a prime Mediterranean seashore maybe up 200 miles long on and off for 200 years. Who had the advantage? The Armenians lost everything. The Ottomans went on to build fleets attacking the Spanish empire at the other end of the Mediterranean

You have to keep in mind how geographically spread out the Turks were by 1340 compared to the Armenians. From 1071-1340 the Turks had completely ravaged the heartland of the Byzantines, Anatolia, and it was basically the backyard of Turkish emirs for centuries. Persia was also overran by the Seljuks, as the Arabs and Persians were weakening each other for centuries. The Armenians of Cilicia were simply one of the many coastal kingdoms in the east mediterranean, a nation of refugees from the Turkic invasions of Armenia from the 11th century. The situations are completely different.

Also, Armenian culture, language and religion is completely different from their neighbors. Turks on the other hand, had Islam, and they were very zelous about it, and this made it easier for them to rule over Arabs, Persians and their fellow Turks and assume the influential role of the Caliphate which was already set up by Arabs and Persians, which can wield influence from Central Asia to southern Spain. Armenians on the other hand, couldn't even convince their only Christian neighbors, the Byzantines, to help them, and it was because of Byzantine religious bigotry towards Armenian Apostolic Christianity. So theres no comparison between Turks and Armenians in this respect.

And also, you also have to keep in mind the steady flow of manpower the Turks had coming from Central Asia for centuries. All those Anatolian and Middle Eastern Turkish emirates were consistently rejuvinated by Turks heading west from Central Asia, or by refugees from one of the thousands of Turkish raids and invasions. Turks were simply much more numerous than Armenians and had more similarities to the peoples of the Near East because of Islam. If you add a few strokes of luck, a few Byzantine blunders, western European neglect, along with Turkish cannons and the ruthlessness of their rulers, at a time when all the major powers were in decline, it is no wonder how they became so powerful. I'm not saying success just fell in their laps, but their situation was much more favorable than the Armenians.

[robertik1]

Re: The Ottomans

Agree completely. We shouldve taken Nakhichevan while we had the chance...

[Hellektor]

We are not empire seekers

I agree there are many cases of Armenian bravery. But collectively, if we just take the Ottoman seige and conquest of Cyprus in 1570-71, an army of 200,000 ottoman troops was assembled and shipped across the sea. An 11-month seige followed. The defenders were 7,000 strong and isolated. More than 50,000 ottoman military were killed until they conquered the island (let's leave the incredible bravery of the defenders to one side).

Your answer is in your post. We are not siege people! We are the besieged. We have always struggled to break the siege, like those brave 7000 who fought 200,000 genocidal, ruthless bandits who were only about rape, pillage and plunder. No wonder, even your religion authorizes and encourages this. Hey, we are goodies, Turks are baddies and they know this.

I can hardly think of an instance in history where Armenians have engaged in a Turk-becoming, sick, sadistic, psychopathic torture of others, by laying a siege to starve and force the inhabitants to surrender themselves and part with their belongings and in most cases be slaughtered. In fact, all the acts of Armenian self-defense that the genocidal Turk abuses to picture the Armenians as aggressors and projects their savagery on us, were nothing but defending their lives against the siege of the outnumbering Turk army: Zeitun, Van, Musa Dag, Urfa and in our days, the breaking of the “Azeri” siege where they were sadistically firing 13,000 Grads on innocent civilians of Artsakh to exterminate the Armenians and steal Artsakh, but led to the liberation of parts of field Artsakh are examples that confirm this.

We are not empire seekers. elsewhere on this very board I say, “...if we had three or four Tigrans in decisive moments of our history, Turkey would never have existed today and Armenia would stretch from the Caspian to the Black Sea to the Mediterranean with a population of 30 million, a Switzerland + Japan in the middle of Asia. Alas and alack...”

Armenians are liberators: from the oldest times as in the case with Cyrus, Armenians have always fought for the rights of the oppressed. While fooled by the Abrahamic religion Marxism the gullible Armenians were liberating Berlin, the “Azeri” garbage were using this “internationalism” for their own pan-Turkist purposes for which they called their counterfeit state “Azerbaijan”, occupying the real Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan) and Turkey, wolf in sheepskin, letting the Jews in Struma drown, were dealing with the Nazis through Von Pappen to jump on the train when sure of German victory to destroy Russia and annex Central Asia to their Empire of Rape.

Just in that seige the Ottomans probably struggled more than Armenians did from 1375 to 1918.

I'd say the mere liberation of Berlin in which 10 Armenian generals took part, reached there first and were the only Soviet army to do so, weighs heavier in moral terms than all the death, destruction, rape, pillage and plunder the Turk pestilence has committed since the 11th century AD the civilized side of the Caspian, not to speak of the exceptional bravery of the Armenians in WWII, where 600,000 Armenians (all the able-bodied available at the time) fought on all fronts, liberated countless areas, gave the same number of dead soldiers as the “greatest nation on Earth”, i.e. 300,000.

You say it was a miracle that Cilicia survived that long. Instead of thinking about survival, isn't it better to think how much more powerful Cilicia could have become? The Ottomans when they crossed into the Balkans were surrounded by Bulgarians, Macedonians, Serbians, Albanians, Byzantines. Not only they 'survived', they ended up nearly taking Vienna.How did they do it?

They were in the right place at the right time, the case for all such feat, plus they were unimaginably ruthless. This is reflected in what you say. They are ready to lose 50,000 lives to steal territory that isn't theirs.

History is repeating itself. The “Azeri” garbage perpetrates genocide and instigates a war, loses the war, yet is so brazen that demands territory from the victor; a territory that has never, ever belonged to their bogus state, legally or historically. They have the devil's luck that another tribe, the J people who control the media, are on their side.

This is where I think differently from the bulk of the Armenians who believe the Turk will be civilized someday. They think if they cede the liberated territories, the genocidal vermin will abide by an eventual treaty. The Armenian does not want to understand the Turk will never tolerate the existence of an Armenia of any shape, size or form and after getting the territories despite their miserable defeat, they'll become even more brazen and demand the rest of Artsakh, which they will gain by breeding like rats and stifling Artsakh, forcing the Armenians to flee. Then they'll demand Siunik to have passage to stolen Nakhijevan. Then they demand the “khanate of Erivan”...

I believe we should do to the Turk what they already accuse us of all the time. No matter how fair we play, they'll massacre our helpless women and children and will always find a Jew (usually with a Turk whore) like that piece of shit Thomas Goltz who will fabricate a hollow hoax like Khojaly to smear the Armenians.

Recently on Hylur (the news program on the only Armenian satellite channel) the soldiers on the frontier of Artsakh were showing the “Azeri” filth taking their time, doing engineering work, reinforcing their positions in an easy shooting range and in broad daylight. An Armenian soldier said, they know we are good people and we won't shoot. Yet a few days ago they shot and killed two innocent Armenian rural civilians, a young man and an old man. Then they set fire to the area.

In the same way, when they were barbarically destroying the Jugha khachkars in broad daylight, they were also sure no one would hurt them and the Jew owned media wouldn't even mention this monstrosity. This was a good chance for Armenia to take back Nakhijevan. They should have carpet bombed Nakhijevan and liberated it or flown a helicopter gunship to shoot those soldiers, an action that would be totally justified even by the anti-Armenian “international” community in case the “Azeri” atrocity would be shameless enough to complain, or at least they should have stopped the Artsakh “negotiations” until the matter was resolved and damages paid by the sore genocidal “Azeri” losers.

While I believe the Armenians should eradicate the Turk parasite from their homeland, even when I want to fantasize nuking Turkey, I don't go as far as doing it in my imagination. Since I love animals especially cats, I usually bring the pretext that cats and dogs will be killed, so I cannot allow myself nuking Turkey even in a Walter Mitty mode.

This is something the Turk is incapable to fathom, since somewhere down the line throughout these ten or twelve thousand years of civilization, it has missed the train of evolution and has not acquired the necessary human traits: remorse, guilt, shame, compassion, honesty, modesty, sincerity, truthfulness, conscience, objectivity, self-criticism, sympathy and understanding for the suffering of others, the ability to share others' pain, the ability to value achievements of civilization such as works of art, places of worship, manuscripts, cities, etc., which are vital if a two-legged talking creature is to be labeled human being.

P.S. Remember: i before an e except after c.

[Hellektor]

Re: The Ottomans

Turks spread throughout Central Asia AFTER the sixth century AD.

You had display your ignorance (Who? Me? H.) at Turkish ancient history, AFTER THE 16. CENTURY (??? H.) hahahaha Haha Hey Guy Turks came Anatolia in 11. Century how could it be!!! We were always there, because we are Central Asian, East side of Caspian Sea.

After the SIXTH CENTURY ANNO DOMINI

Map showing the origin of the Turk Inhuman Culture-deficiency Virus in Mongolia and its spread AFTER the SIXTH CENTURY AD like cancer throughout Central Asia, the land of Iranian nomadic tribes known as the Turanians, then the descent like an abomination west of the Caspian AFTER the 11th century AD

6th Century not 16th century. Do read my Turanian Fallacy CAREFULLY for a change. AND CHECK THE FUCKING MAP. I did NOT draw this map, but the expert Turkologists did.

Your Khrosan and our Horasan is different, You are right Khroasan is Area in Iran but Horasan was a city, destroyed by Mongols.

Never heard of it. You do not have the sound “Kh” (the “ch” sound in machen in German or Loch ness in Scottish, presented by X in Russian), therefore, I am 99.99999% sure you are talking about Khorasan which never belonged to Turks and its attribution to Turks is only typical Cacaturk distory.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

As long as Turkey is a NATO member, there no way Armenia is going to start war with Turkey.

Nobody is interested in a war with Turkey (or even Azerbaijan), Turkey being in or out of NATO makes no difference. The 99.9% Armenians in Armenia are not interested. The 99.9% Armenians living comfortably in California, Texas, Florida, southern France or wherever are not interested. Karabakh is independent. The number of overseas Armenians who have chosen to live there is probably no more than 50

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

You cannot use Ottoman military incompetance of the 16th century to justify the Ottomans' massacre of their own Armenian citizens during WWI.

I am talking about struggles. The sum total of all the Armenian struggles from the fall of Cilicia to the modern age. How many men involved? How much planning? How much organization? A nation's standing is determined by how much it has exterted itself

I don't see how you can compare Cilicia's situation with that of the Turks. Can you even name some similarities?

when the ottomans arrived on the shores of the Marmara sea around 1340AD, most had never seen a ship in their lives. At that time the Armenians of Cilicia controlled a prime Mediterranean seashore maybe up 200 miles long on and off for 200 years. Who had the advantage? The Armenians lost everything. The Ottomans went on to build fleets attacking the Spanish empire at the other end of the Mediterranean

[TXMENIAN]

Re: The Ottomans

sorry, but having a healthy Armenian population in 'turkey' is something we should encourage. these people will become very usefull for any future Armenian Millitary incursions into Turkish occupied Armenia.

In any case Turkey is already a melting pot for many different ethnie, We must continue to represent our culture there, even if its semi-turkified. lets not forget they wanted us out/dead, lets not flirt with their 'nationalist' ambitions

As long as Turkey is a NATO member, there no way Armenia is going to start war with Turkey.

[TXMENIAN]

Re: The Ottomans

yeah i agree, sell everything and get out of there.

you never know you could pick up any sort of disease while living in Turkey

Amen to that.