The Ottomans

[TomServo]

Re: The Ottomans

Armenians, Greeks and others have tended to dismiss the Ottomans as eastern savages instead of analyzing them objectively. Many Ottoman pashas and beys in 1915 had a much higher level of education than the average Armenian and had studied in universities abroad

If you mean in the backwaters of Anatolia, then yes. But what about the Armenian community in Constantinople? They were very well educated. Most studied abroad in various European countries.

There's not much an educated person could do when their village or school was invaded by armed Kurdish or Turkish bandits, as was usually the case back then.

[jgk3]

Re: The Ottomans

I'm aware of this, but I'm sure if Armenians had the chance, they would do the same thing. It doesn't say anything about the people as a whole. The number of Ottoman Armenian families who were able to go to university were limited because they played a limited role in the elite, and rightly so, why would the Ottomans want Christians in the front line of every domain of the empire? They'd prefer if the Christians were of a social strata below them, and they kept it so.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Armenians, Greeks and others have tended to dismiss the Ottomans as eastern savages instead of analyzing them objectively. Many Ottoman pashas and beys in 1915 had a much higher level of education than the average Armenian and had studied in universities abroad

[jgk3]

Re: The Ottomans

maybe that just means Ottomans were good at organizing a state that pools in all the talents of the minorities that it ruled over, and knew had to entertain productive diplomatic relations with different countries at different times. It's obvious that if no one cooperated with Ottomans, they could not succeed, especially with the case of industrious noble-ized Armenian and Greek families that provided service to the Ottomans. An economic and political incentive had to be created that would encourage such merit-based selection of state service, of course, in an pro-Ottoman context, and they succeeded in creating it and fostering it, until the end of the 19th century and the rise of pan-Turkism.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

It's the other way around, idiot. Turks adopted Anatolian (Greek, Armenian, Assyrian and Kurdish), Arabic and Persian mentalities, psychologies, ways of life, etc... The proof of this is in your architecture, your literature, your religion, your script, your music, your genetics, your cuisine, your art, your land, etc...



You can thank the multitudes of Byzantines that had become Ottomanized and scores of European mercenaries that fought for the Sultan.

Why did the Ottomans rise? To fill the vacuum left by the defeated Franks (Crusaders), the devastated Arabs (at the hands of the Franks), the militarily non-existent Persians, and the severely weakened Seljuks, Byzantines and Armenians (as a result of regional turmoil).... By the late middle ages, there was a severe geopolitical vacuum in the Near East and Asia Minor as a result of hundreds of years of constant battles between Europeans, Byzantines, Persians, Arabs and Armenians. This lead to the Ottoman rise. Talk about being in the right place at the right time. Historically, the sun has shined out your assess.



Who's "Nasreddin Hodja"?

Oh yes, the Ottomans took a lot from the conquered peoples. They had a fairly basic way of life in their yurts as they wandered from the Gobbi desert to the Aral Sea before their westward forays. As they conquered nations all the way to the Adriatic Sea and Vienna, suddenly the world was told of the existence of things like: Ottoman clothes, Ottoman cuisine, Ottoman architecture, Ottoman music even Ottoman humor. Today Turkish real estate advertisers regularly claim Ottoman features on their properties for sale. But in the case of Nadreddin Hoja the transfer was in the other direction.

The Ottomans had the good fortune of sitting on prime real estate. Because they controlled Anatolia, the Balkans and the Middle East rival European powers came to their aid. During the Crimean war (1854-56), 100,000 French and 30,000 British troops died to prop up the declining Ottoman empire

[garod]

Re: The Ottomans

Who's "Nasreddin Hodja"?

"Nasreddin Hoca was born in 1208 in Hortu village near town Sivrihisar (near Afyon) in the west part of Central Anatolia.Nasreddin Hoca was a philosopher, wise, witty man with a good sense of humor. His stories have been told almost everywhere in the world, spread among the tribes of Turkic World and into Persian, Arabian, African and along the Silk Road to China and India cultures, later also to Europe. Of course, all these stories currently attributed to the Hoca for about 700 years haven't originated from him. Most of them are the product of collective Humor of not only Turks but also other folks in the World. The year 1996 was proclaimed "Nasreddin Hoca year" by UNESCO.He signed the humor of the millennium at the top."

A Nasreddin Hoca story for you :

The Criticism Of Men

Hodja and his son went on a journey once. Hodja preferred that his son ride the donkey and that he himself go on foot. On the way they met some people who said:
-Look at that healthy young boy! That is today's youth for you. They have no respect for elders. He rides on the donkey and makes his poor father walk!

When they had passed by these people the boy felt very ashamed and insisted that he walk and his father ride the donkey. So Hodja mounted the donkey and the boy walked at his side. A little later they met some other people who said:

-Well, look at that! That poor little boy has to walk while his father rides the donkey.

After they had passed by these people, Hodja told his son:

-The best thing to do is for both of us to walk. Then no one can complain.

So they continued on their journey, both of them walking. A little ways down the road they met some others who said:

-Just take a look at those fools. Both of them are walking under this hot sun and neither of them are riding the donkey!

Hodja turned to his son and said:

-That just goes to show how hard it is to escape the opinions of men.

http://www.sivrihisar.net/stories.htm

[Armenian]

Re: The Ottomans

Of all of Armenia's neighbors and occupying powers, the Ottomans have probably had the greatest effect on Armenian . Even now, on a given day, thousands of Armenians all over the world will tell each other 14th century Turkish folk philospher/homorist Nasreddin Hodja's wisecrack stories

It's the other way around, idiot. Turks adopted Anatolian (Greek, Armenian, Assyrian and Kurdish), Arabic and Persian mentalities, psychologies, ways of life, etc... The proof of this is in your architecture, your literature, your religion, your script, your music, your genetics, your cuisine, your art, your land, etc...

When the Othman tribe of perhaps 30,000 men set up their tents on the shores of the Marmara Sea in the 14th century, most of them had never been to a seashore (never mind seen a sea-going vessel) in their lives. Yet 100 years later their warships were besieging Constantinople. And 100 years after that, the Ottoman fleet was transporting soldiers and mercenaries to the Italian peninsula, with the aim of taking Rome

You can thank the multitudes of Byzantines that had become Ottomanized and scores of European mercenaries that fought for the Sultan.

Why did the Ottomans rise? To fill the vacuum left by the defeated Franks (Crusaders), the devastated Arabs (at the hands of the Franks), the militarily non-existent Persians, and the severely weakened Seljuks, Byzantines and Armenians (as a result of regional turmoil).... By the late middle ages, there was a severe geopolitical vacuum in the Near East and Asia Minor as a result of hundreds of years of constant battles between Europeans, Byzantines, Persians, Arabs and Armenians. This lead to the Ottoman rise. Talk about being in the right place at the right time. Historically, the sun has shined out your assess.

Even now, on a given day, thousands of Armenians all over the world will tell each other 14th century Turkish folk philospher/homorist Nasreddin Hodja's wisecrack stories

Who's "Nasreddin Hodja"?

[Anonymouse]

Re: The Ottomans

Historians and observers in general to this day are puzzled how a tribe of desert herdsmen called the Othmans ended up creating one of the mightiest empires of the world.

Easy. You become the most ruthless and merciless, essentially pillaging every form of life on your way which would prompt a Victor Hugo to state, "The Turk has trodden this land, all is in Ruins."

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Historians and observers in general to this day are puzzled how a tribe of desert herdsmen called the Othmans ended up creating one of the mightiest empires of the world. When the Othman tribe of perhaps 30,000 men set up their tents on the shores of the Marmara Sea in the 14th century, most of them had never been to a seashore (never mind seen a sea-going vessel) in their lives. Yet 100 years later their warships were besieging Constantinople. And 100 years after that, the Ottoman fleet was transporting soldiers and mercenaries to the Italian peninsula, with the aim of taking Rome

[Anonymouse]

Re: The Ottomans

Tatars terrorized Russia for hundreds of years but eventually Russians organized themselves and counterattacked, taking the Tatar khanates in Kazan, Astrakhan and Crimea, putting an end to the slavery. They did it by themselves without any outside help.

It shows that if people really want to end foreign rule, they can, provided they have faith and are prepared to sacrifice themselves

Which is why now Armenians have mended history with the Azeris. Isn't it amazing what one can do if one puts his or her mind to it?

Marvelous.