Origin of Armenian Surnames

[Eddo211]

Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

I don’t what you guys are talking about. Me and dad (God bless his soul) used to go duck hunting in Iran all the time and the Farsi (Persian is not a language) name for it is Ordak……………unless you are saying there were no ducks around until Turks showed up. Morghabe has been used as well which means water bird but that could mean any water bird like a goose.


xمرغابى Morghabe


xاردک Ordak

[Moogey]

Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

My mother comes from Shahbaz or Shahbazian family; they say it was a noble’s family name, originly they were from Ani, they scaped to Cilicia and now it’s a village in north-westen Syria, called “Yacoubieh” later on they were called “Kassis” translated to Armenian it’s “Yeretsian”

My father was from Adana in Cilicia.

King Abbas Bagratuni (928-951): The Haghbat monastery complex dates from his reign. The Shahbazians may be descended from the Bagratuni dynasty.

Shahbaz was also a medieval village in Karabagh, if I remember.

Then you have Shah Abbas of Persia. Very often, people took the name of a ruler, to please him. Persia was a neighbour, and often a conqueror.

[jgk3]

Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

I don’t what you guys are talking about. Me and dad (God bless his soul) used to go duck hunting in Iran all the time and the Farsi (Persian is not a language) name for it is Ordak……………unless you are saying there were no ducks around until Turks showed up. Morghabe has been used as well which means water bird but that could mean any water bird like a goose.


xمرغابى Morghabe


xاردک Ordak

There were ducks before the Turks arrived, and they were most likely called "Bat" in Farsi dialects of the time.

It's normal for two terms for an item to have existed at the same time, with some dialects preferring one over the other. All that happened in Farsi was that the dialects that used the Turkish borrowed work Ordak ended up being more prestigious or commonly spoken than the historic Farsi word for duck "Bat". It doesn't matter if "Ordak" had a Turkish origin, it became more popular.

Oh and for the record guys... Turkish syntax and morphology is more similar to Armenian than you'd like to admit. There are some differences, but you'd be surprised by what order the words show up in a sentence in Turkish. I want to explore this phenomenon more in depth, looking out for evidence that the two languages influenced eachother's grammatical patterns.

[ara87]

Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

There were ducks before the Turks arrived, and they were most likely called "Bat" in Farsi dialects of the time.

It's normal for two terms for an item to have existed at the same time, with some dialects preferring one over the other. All that happened in Farsi was that the dialects that used the Turkish borrowed work Ordak ended up being more prestigious or commonly spoken than the historic Farsi word for duck "Bat". It doesn't matter if "Ordak" had a Turkish origin, it became more popular.

Oh and for the record guys... Turkish syntax and morphology is more similar to Armenian than you'd like to admit. There are some differences, but you'd be surprised by what order the words show up in a sentence in Turkish. I want to explore this phenomenon more in depth, looking out for evidence that the two languages influenced eachother's grammatical patterns.

So now the question is, did the Persians take "bat" from Armenian? (pat/patig) or did we take it from them?

[Gavur]

Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

I'm not into prolong this debate. But know that I don't agree with your statement about what Turkish sounds like. Sure Turkish took many words from these languages, which is OK for me, but IMO, it doesn't resemble or sound like Arabic at all. Note that though I'm not an Arabic speaker, I have been exposed to it for a long time.
I wonder whether your knowledge of Turkish is enough to make such certain assertions.

I hate to say this Seruven but after many years I found that most of the Turkish words I enjoyed speaking turned out Arabic or Persian, some fantastic words .I guess Thats why those were adapted in Turkey.

[Gavur]

Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

Anyway, Turks did not loan much word from arab. It is persian which take words from arabic and Turks got these arabic words from persian...

Well, that could explain why those words are not used properly. its from ear to ear.

[jgk3]

Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

So now the question is, did the Persians take "bat" from Armenian? (pat/patig) or did we take it from them?

I can't tell, but I can tell you that one day I will

Btw, do you know some incidences of borrowings from Armenian in Farsi? I'd like to know.

[Lucin]

Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

I'm not into prolong this debate. But know that I don't agree with your statement about what Turkish sounds like. Sure Turkish took many words from these languages, which is OK for me, but IMO, it doesn't resemble or sound like Arabic at all. Note that though I'm not an Arabic speaker, I have been exposed to it for a long time.
I wonder whether your knowledge of Turkish is enough to make such certain assertions.

I did not say Turkish resembles to Arabic or Persian neither from a grammatical point of view, nor phonetically but rather it sounds like a cacophony of Arabic and Persian. Cacophony would be an unpleasant, non-harmonious mixture of noises/sounds.

I don’t what you guys are talking about. Me and dad (God bless his soul) used to go duck hunting in Iran all the time and the Farsi (Persian is not a language) name for it is Ordak……………unless you are saying there were no ducks around until Turks showed up. Morghabe has been used as well which means water bird but that could mean any water bird like a goose.


xمرغابى Morghabe


xاردک Ordak

Morghabi is just not any water bird, it is much like duck but it has brown or black stains on it (haven't heard of any English word for it), while duck is usually plain white. Goose would be ghu in Farsi.

Totally unrelated. Turkish vs arabic-persian(Infact, There is not any relation except some borrowed words.) is much less than english-french langauge.

Anyway, Turks did not loan much word from arab. It is persian which take words from arabic and Turks got these arabic words from persian...


Maybe you should listen an arabic and Turkish song.

How about you learning English?

[Eddo211]

Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

...
It's normal for two terms for an item to have existed at the same time, with some dialects preferring one over the other. All that happened in Farsi was that the dialects that used the Turkish borrowed work Ordak ended up being more prestigious or commonly spoken than the historic Farsi word for duck "Bat". It doesn't matter if "Ordak" had a Turkish origin, it became more popular............

I like the way you guys analyze these things, very informative.



To Lucin:
Balle, shoma dorost migin.

Morghabe is a duck………….after I posted my message and thought about it I realized my mistake, forgot the name of the goose though.
I sure have forgoten alot now that I think about it. Terrible. I guess I should stop telling my best friend "rhak too sar tow chete, mage Irani nisti. chetoor mitoone yadet berre." hahaha

Khaily moteshakeram Khanoom.

[LebHye]

Re: Origin of Armenian Surnames

originalyy Posted by Moogey
My father was from Adana in Cilicia.

My father's grandfather was born in Adana too