Nakhichevan

[jgk3]

Re: Nakhichevan

Bell, Hrai and lampron, refrain from attacks at one another.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nakhichevan

With that Paris ambassador, I think it was that he said (or claimed) that he couldn't do anything without getting instructions from Yerevan, and this went on for over a year. I assume he conveyed to Yerevan what the proposed delegation had said was needed. Which would suggest that Yerevan was deliberately obstructing the attempt to meet UNESCOs head - and since the lack of help is continuing that does seem to be the best explanation. Though maybe the ineptitude of the ambassador played a part. You would think that these appointments would be seen as of vital importance for Armenia. But the ambassador in Britain seems to change every year or so, with no discussion and for no apparent reason.

http://www.armenian.ch/forum/Docs/Jugha/Jugha-MemorandumUNESCO_E.pdf

According to the above:

"On December 16, 2002, in an official letter addressed to the Director-General of UNESCO, the Minister for foreign affairs again expressed concerns about the renewed attempts of the Azerbaijani authorities to carry out the destruction of the Armenian cemetery and church in Jugha. He suggested that an inspection mission to Nakhijevan should determine the extent of the systematic destruction."

"The national council of Armenians in Nakhijevan submitted several declarations to various international organizations, such as the European Parliament, the Council of Europe, the International Council on Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS) and UNESCO, requesting them to put under international protection the ancient Armenian monuments that had been destroyed in Nakhijevan from 1999 to 2003."

there are more examples on page 5 and 6 of the article. I dont know why Armenia would refuse diplomatic aid when they asked alot of organizations to take action?

[jgk3]

Re: Nakhichevan

http://www.armenian.ch/forum/Docs/Ju...umUNESCO_E.pdf

According to the above:

"On December 16, 2002, in an official letter addressed to the Director-General of UNESCO, the Minister for foreign affairs again expressed concerns about the renewed attempts of the Azerbaijani authorities to carry out the destruction of the Armenian cemetery and church in Jugha. He suggested that an inspection mission to Nakhijevan should determine the extent of the systematic destruction."

"The national council of Armenians in Nakhijevan submitted several declarations to various international organizations, such as the European Parliament, the Council of Europe, the International Council on Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS) and UNESCO, requesting them to put under international protection the ancient Armenian monuments that had been destroyed in Nakhijevan from 1999 to 2003."

there are more examples on page 5 and 6 of the article. I dont know why Armenia would refuse diplomatic aid when they asked alot of organizations to take action?

Orders from Moscow to Armenian politicians whose sustenance comes from obeying Russian interests, is my bet.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nakhichevan

http://www.armenian.ch/forum/Docs/Ju...umUNESCO_E.pdf

According to the above:

"On December 16, 2002, in an official letter addressed to the Director-General of UNESCO, the Minister for foreign affairs again expressed concerns about the renewed attempts of the Azerbaijani authorities to carry out the destruction of the Armenian cemetery and church in Jugha. He suggested that an inspection mission to Nakhijevan should determine the extent of the systematic destruction."

"The national council of Armenians in Nakhijevan submitted several declarations to various international organizations, such as the European Parliament, the Council of Europe, the International Council on Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS) and UNESCO, requesting them to put under international protection the ancient Armenian monuments that had been destroyed in Nakhijevan from 1999 to 2003."

there are more examples on page 5 and 6 of the article. I dont know why Armenia would refuse diplomatic aid when they asked alot of organizations to take action?

Who are "The national council of Armenians in Nakhijevan"? There are no Armenians in Nachchivan. So it is a meaningless politicised organisation, just like similar Azerbaijani Nagorno Karabakh equivalents.

If in 2002 Armenia at a state level was in any way seriously lobbying the issue, how come, in 2006, Matsuura stated that UNESCO had never even actually asked Azerbaijan if a UNESCO inspection could visit the site! Further to that 2006 meeting, a representative from London said that she had been lobbying for the issue to be raised at the House of Commons and had asked the Armenian Embassy in London to help her with contacts and access and so on, but they had refused. It appears to be the policy of the Armenian Government that the whole issue should be hushed-up at international level, while making occasional for-Armenian-ears-only statements to pretend that they are concerned about the issue and doing somethign about it.

Matsuura himself is probably also complicit in the cover-up. He became Director General of UNESCO the same year as Azerbaijan began its destruction of the site. The very evening after the delegation met him, he went to the opera with the wife of Ilham Aliyev, who happens to be Azerbaijan's UNESCO representative.

[lampron]

Re: Nakhichevan

I have met the first two ambassadors from Armenia to the US and they were total zeros. Most of them are inept rejects/midlevel USSR functionaries. .

still, there is no excuse for the virtual silence in the international media for the crime of cultural genocide by the Azerbaijani leadership

[lampron]

Re: Nakhichevan

"According to Josephus, the Armenians in the 1st century showed the remains of Noah's ark at a place called αποβατηριον "Place of Descent" (Armenian: Նախիջեւան, Nakhichevan, Ptolemy's Ναξουανα), about 60 miles southeast of the summit of Mount Ararat (ca. 39°04′N 45°05′E / 39.07°N 45.08°E / 39.07; 45.08)

This source obviously confirms that Nakhichevan/Nakhijevan is the original name based on the Armenian meaning of 'Place of Descent'. The Turco-tatars modified this name taking out the 'i' and fabricated a story about its origins to confuse unsuspecting observers

[lampron]

Re: Nakhichevan

You know so little about your own history.

There were no secular Armenian schools before the 19th century. Most Armenians were illiterate before the 19th century. Publications were mostly limited to religious texts until the 19th century. Western Armenians until then knew, and wanted to know, next to nothing about historic Armenia. It was only in the 19th century, as a result of growing secularisation, modernisation, and an increasing sense of national identity, that they started to be concious about historic Armenia and its history and desired to read books about it. By theend of the 19th century that involved the production of proper history books and proper research, but much of the early material produced just involved the compiling of existing religious myths and traditions.

unless you produce evidence, this is going straight to the trash-can!

[londontsi]

Re: Nakhichevan

unless you produce evidence, this is going straight to the trash-can!

I agree here with bell.

I remembered a book I had read when I was in my early teens by Raffi.
It was called Der Totiki Tbrots. Not even sure where you would obtain such books.

To get the real feel of the atmosphere in those schools you would have to obtain the book and read it.
I remember reading, the schools were very harsh and cruel environment.
The teachers would only be described by today standards as ignorant peasants and worse.
Luckily I have found an indirect reference to these type of schools which were run by priests.

http://forum.hyeclub.com/archive/index.php/t-9159.html

...... "See that girl reading over there," said Ashot pointing to the girl sitting on the tree stump, "she reminds me of a scene from one of Raffi's (Hakop
Melik-Hakopian, 1835-1888, born in Persia) writings. He had just returned
home with great excitement and enthusiasm to Payajuk, a village in the
Salmast region of Persia, in 1856 after receiving his education in Tiflis,
Georgia, first at the Garabed Belakhian School (established in 1846), a
private Armenian prep-school, and then at the Russian Gymnasium. (The
prep-school offered boarding, specialized in Armenian studies and prepared
students for the gymnasium (high school.) Learning much and exposed to new
ideas, curricula and methods of teaching other than the harsh, overly
pedantic and unproductive Der Totik Dbrots (village schools run by priests)
style of teaching, he was filled with a passionate desire to educate and
enlighten his fellow Armenians. One day, as he was walking around his
village, he came across a young teenage girl sitting near a spring. Raffi
asked her, 'Do you know how to read?'

"The girl responded, 'I am not a deeratsoo (one studying for the priesthood)
or a priest that I need to learn or know how to read.'"

"Raffi felt strongly that women needed to be educated for the enlightenment
of the nation, and as he pondered the young girl's response, he thought to
himself, Poor girl, I will remove the confusion from your innocent mind.
Reading is more important for you than for the deeratsoo and the priest. You
must educate the new generation, and you must smooth the path for our bright
future! Yes, you must learn to read! It will be then that you will no longer
be a poor and pitiable creature, and your children will live good and happy
lives."

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nakhichevan

unless you produce evidence, this is going straight to the trash-can!

As if I (or anyone) cared what is, or is not, in your trash-can, Mr Worm.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nakhichevan

I remembered a book I had read when I was in my early teens by Raffi.
It was called Der Totiki Tbrots. Not even sure where you would obtain such books.

5 or 6 years ago Ebay used to be a good source for these old books, mostly original editions coming from booksellers in Turkey - but there is nothing much there nowadays.

Even until the end of the 19th century, most books in Armenian were published in Constantinople. Armenians in the western part of the Ottoman empire were the most educated and literate, and it wasn't really until eastern Armenia became part of the Russian empire that the modern world, including things like publishing and schools, entered the lives of the population there.