Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

[Anoush]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

The plans are never revealed to the people. I am thinking that the West is pushing the issue to establish the new world order. They know that any disruption in that area of the world will also disrupt the flow of oil around the world. Israel doesn't plan on attacking Iran, they want the West to impose more sanctions hoping that hurting the Iranian people will force them to take their frustration out on its government. The world leaders feel that they now have military and political control in all critical parts of the world and once everyone is tied together, just one disturbance can cause a domino effect.

But why is it that Serj is not even revealing his plans to the other collaborative parties, BTW; Tashnagtsoutyoun and Gagik's party? Why is he keeping it so secretative if things seems to be on the good for Armenia or the future of our Republic? This puzzles me and most of the patriotic Armenians abroad or in the motherland!

[Palavra]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

And Palavra you're so smart and outspoken; why is all of these are done ever so secretly between the two preswidents without letting the people of our Republic know?

Most probably because public will dislike and try to stop what they are doing. There is a lot dislike for what Erdogan doing too. Specially from nationalists.

And what if the government or the head of the government is acting as a traitor?

If you have proof, You can rebel but You cannot rebel because You have different ideas. He is choosen by ROA people. In every agreement, You should give something and take something.

Then what the good people of Armenia should do?

Vote for other people or protest peacifully.

But I can't ask you that, because you think first and above all for turkey and of course I for Armenia.

Well, Turkey is not first or above all but I have enough love for her. But I am not talking as a Turk. A rebellion at ROA would help a lot to Turks and Azeris. So If I think as a Turk, I would prefer rebellion. (and I still prefer rebellion but my words at this forum will not change anything. I am just brainstorming.)

New goverment will not be accepted as legitimate and image of armenians will become bad. Also, Turkey can say world that It is ROA who is not interested with friendship.

Destroying is easy but building is not.

what will you do after you destroy elected goverment? EU and USA will turn their back to you. You want to become a more puppet of Russia(If there is such possibility.) Fearing from Turks will make you perfect slaves for russians.

If Serg can enhance relation between Turkey, He can use that relation as a card against Russia and Iran. You do not need to afraid. Russia and Iran will not let Turkey for taking ROA. You are not looking for bigger picture.

Also I dislike what happening between ROA and Turkey but I did not see erdogan as traitor.(Of course, there are some nationalist who think so.) Erdogan is playing a risky game at kafkas. We may lose azeris and gain zero from this game.

[Anoush]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Vote for other people or protest peacifully.

I was already thinking on the lines for voting or taking over the government if today's government is not doing the right things for Armenia or the future of our Republic.

Destroying is easy but building is not.

If and at all it will be a destroyment, it will be rebuilt by a governing body who is thinking and acting first and utmost for the RA.

If Serg can enhance relation between Turkey, He can use that relation as a card against Russia and Iran. You do not need to afraid. Russia and Iran will not let Turkey for taking ROA. You are not looking for bigger picture.

Yes I am very hesitant and frightened; because the future is moot for Armenia especially the secrecy part that they're holding onto as well as some suggested above, turks can beget much more than us and so forth.

[Sako]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Saco jan, couldn't the people start a revolution against Serge's government to take over the parliament and put reliable people on the throne so to speak? I always wondered why the people of Armenia of today did not vote for Tashangtsoutyoun; man they are the only real real real government you could trust. They are 119 year old 'gousagtsoutyoun' with real patriotic, I mean patriotic feelings towards their country and their people. They may have made some mistakes in the past; but they have also created from a very tired and massacre inflicted people an Armenian Republic in 1918 of course with the help of the people; and their heart and soul were always towards their beloved people and their beloved land.

Anoush jan, let me be straight about this if you don't mind. I respect the Dashnaks and the others but I stay away from their politics. I work directly with the people which I feel is more important. All these parties we see today have not made "some" mistakes ... they've made MANY mistakes and they all have equal blame. Our country suffers because of their wrong choices (and of course because of OUR bad choices). All these parties have made us go through massive problems but looking at the bigger picture, I support the Dashnaks more for their patriotism and hard work and miss the unity we had back in 1918. I understand why many Armenians support them but I feel we should first support EACH OTHER. Let our parties do their part and let us do our part. If we all do what we have to do, everything will stay under control. If we work together, we'll be able to create a new and better Armenia but at the moment, I don't see that happening and perhaps never will . Our people are very sick right now. They are sick of not having enough jobs or enough money. Their sick of all the crappy politics. Their sick of not being able to take care of their families. Their sick of everything. What they don't understand is that we HAVE TO UNITE. There is no better cure. No better cure. I live in Armenia ... I know.

You ask me whether our people can start a revolution. My answer is, YES, YES, and YES. They can ... but they won't. You know why? Because if anyone starts something ... NO ONE WILL STAND BY HIS/HER SIDE. No one will show proper support. Look at the Georgians. I am proud of them and am jealous to some extent. Just look at how their working together. WHY CAN'T WE? Because the Armenian people have been thinking about their own lousy skin alone for 800 years. No one thinks about the future, only about the present. No one thinks about the person next to him/her. That is why you won't see any revolutions any time soon, Anoush jan. But don't lose hope. I think there is still a small chance this might happen because EVERYONE is pissed at Serj. His image is destroyed practically speaking so keep your fingers crossed. These borders MUST NOT open...not right now when we're just starting to get on our freakin feet. Forget Europe, forget Turkey, forget everyone. Let's work on ourselves and our country as a whole. Let's become a better nation and when we unite, the AG issue and every other issue will be dealt with almost automatically. So close the borders clowns and let us work!

Again, couldn't the people rise up and take over the parliament? I mean a revolution to end this mascarade. Like you guys said it in here, anything but trusting the turks. They are very cunning and NOT to be trusted. What can I say, I wish the people would rise, after all it's their country and it's their rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What rights? What country? Anoush jan, who gives a xxxx? Just answer this question. You have the wrong picture in your hands. Those who care want to do something but no one can stand up against all this alone. I'd start the freakin revolution if I knew that my people, the people I'd stand next to at any moment, would stand by ME!!! But history has shown that no one comes. The Armenians have to change their attitude but something like that doesn't happen overnight unfortunately. Right now, I'm just waiting to see what all this tension will lead to. The New Armenian Generation is pissed so I don't know what will happen but I feel Serj will need to prepare himself ... NICELY ... because everyone is tired of being cheated. What we all have to do right now is find ways to UNITE. Even the smallest method will work for us because we're too far apart from each other. I'm working on a major site. He's working on this. Your working on that. If we all take small steps forward, we will soon reach our destination. Our paths and methods may be different but our destination is the same... So let's not give up guys. I'm sorry if I speak as if there's no hope at times. I'm just really pissed at all that's been going on lately. I haven't and never will give up. I'm just saying all this so we'll all properly appreciate the gravity of the situation cause we all have a looonnnggg way to go.

Now everyone here, you see why Tashnagtsoutyoun have killed most Armenian traitors? Can anyone blame them now? Now do you see why? Because they are "tsets" "tsets" vermin for our country, for our fine people and for our land. Someone who sells out his country for his selfish pride, for power, for career, for money, for his life or even his family's life because they are threathened do you think is a worthy person????? To me my country FIRST above and above everything and everyone!!!!!

Amen to that

And every person and individual who is a governing body should think and ACT this way or else.

The governing body is a funny creature Anoush. A very funny and sly creature.You know why? Because it gives us exactly what we ask for. It knows our mentality. It knows our weak spots. And it knows who we are. So it makes decisions by looking at us first. If we change and become more serious, so will our leaders. They will become more catious. At the moment, the Armenian people aren't working together, acting like a bunch of sheep, so it's easy to buy their voices and manipulate the populace in any way they like. That is why I don't blame the gov. I FIRST blame the Armenian people. The governing body is our reflection if you get my drift Anoush jan, not that I don't blame all the traitors and xxxxxxxs out there. Don't get the wrong idea.

[Sako]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Pack your bags and leave? Just the opposite, young Jedi.
The committed should be considering packing their bags and heading to Zvartnots.

I'm sorry if I speak as if there's no hope at times Hrai. I'm just really pissed at all that's been going on lately. You live out there in the world. I live in our country and physically feel everythign that's going down so I think my behavior can be a bit understandable.

I haven't and never will give up. If I did, I wouldn't settle down here with my entire family when I could be anywhere else in the world right now. I'm just saying all this so we'll all properly appreciate the gravity of the situation cause we all have a looonnnggg way to go.

[Sako]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

But why is it that Serj is not even revealing his plans to the other collaborative parties, BTW; Tashnagtsoutyoun and Gagik's party? Why is he keeping it so secretative if things seems to be on the good for Armenia or the future of our Republic?

Because something doesn't smell exactly right. I may be wrong but things like this usually happen only when something's abnormal.

[Sako]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

I am just brainstorming.

More like dreaming...

[Gavur]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

I don't have problem with the secrecy of the Armenian/Turkish talk.It is natural for talks of this (sensitive) nature to be secretive, since it can become politicized.Sargisian was given the mandate what I believe it to be majority of the Armenian people and he must do whats in the interest of Armenia , to the best of his ability.I feel he's a superior politician and a leader then he's counterparts (Turkish or American):besides, the secret talks been going on for several years now.I am not compelled at this point to jump to any conclusion, and I'm comfortable with the division this caused between Turkey and their Azeri stepbrothers.

[Anoush]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

I'm sorry if I speak as if there's no hope at times Hrai. I'm just really pissed at all that's been going on lately. You live out there in the world. I live in our country and physically feel everythign that's going down so I think my behavior can be a bit understandable.

I haven't and never will give up. If I did, I wouldn't settle down here with my entire family when I could be anywhere else in the world right now. I'm just saying all this so we'll all properly appreciate the gravity of the situation cause we all have a looonnnggg way to go.

Bravo! Now you're talking sireli Hayrenagits jan! Don't ever give up!

Saco jan, tell me, I think you are speaking as such and frustrated by our people in the motherland because they are not united you say. Saco jan are you speaking in terms of them acting like sheep and everyone is thinking of their own skin only as you already said it and not thinking of their future or Armenia's future? In other words, there are not many like you in AG who thinks patriotically or wil fight for her disregarding their lives and revolutionize against the government despite losing their life? I think that's what you're saying. Saco jan, we'll never find our Armenian populace that we had in the 1918 war when every man, woman, old man and old woman and even older children fought against the enemy to win and finally create the free Armenia that they created against the turkish empire (even though he was sick and defeated) nevertheless a mega huger country at the time than we were. I think you and I are dreaming of those times and wish to have the Armenian brave and the patriotic people of those times. But again Saco jan, remember it was under Dashnagtsoutyoun's leadership that they did all those bravery and the unity as a wonderful population. Let's not forget that Saco.

I say you need Dashnagtsoutyoun to do that Saco jan. If and when the people will be and vote for Dashnagtsoutyoun; as you already admitted with me; they are the true blue "gousagtsoutyoun" party who loves our land and our people. Therefore, for any party who is smart enough, brave enough and is devoted enough for their country and their people and their land; that's the party to be voted and followed by. Remember that and remember my words.

I wish I wish I could stand by you now in the motherland and support you, but now at this time do know that my heart, my soul and my mind as heavy as it may be it is with you lovely people. However one day when I make enough money I wish to go there and support all the poor people in our motherland to make a much stronger nation.

You and I and everyone not to give up for our bright future, NEVER to give up! If we ever to fight for HER; then let it be so!

[Sako]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

I understand how worrying this is but we shouldn’t jump to conclusions. Nothing is going to happen until October when Serj will go to Turkey for the final agreements prior to boarder opening.

But Eddo jan, secret meetings and xxxx can’t lead to something good. We have NO idea what’s going on. I’ve never liked last-minute announcements.

What is puzzling for me is the deafening silence coming from Russia, anybody know what they are saying?

Avelin asem, I even know what their doing. Serj was fishing with one of the Russian officials just a couple of days ago. He caught one, by the way, if anyone cares, lol.

Turkish sources say (assuming it is correct) that economy is not a big factor in this boarder opening. Back in 1994 Armenia and Turkey trades were some like $50 Million, today it is up to $450 Million.

I don’t really care about the economy right now, either. Even if we gain LOT’S of money, we’ll lose too much if our gov. isn’t EXTREMELY careful.

Either way, the thought of events happening in Armenia as described by Saco is very much a worry (possible nightmare) for the people where the State may not really consider or see it as we do.

Above statements are all my own personnel speculations with no reference.

If only, Eddo jan. I didn't see too many speculations. Most of it was true. But like you said, let’s not jump to hasty conclusions. I have reasons though for feeling extremely cautious. A lot is going on here and since my family is close to serious people most of the time, we get to see the bigger picture before most of the others living around us so forgive me if I’m a bit too worried. Right now, we should all be worried. I don't think it's right to think that everything will be hunky dory just yet or perhaps ever.