Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[lampron]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

1.5 Million of my brothers and sister got slaughtered . We lost most of our country . We have another genocide happening within our diaspora (armenians marrying odars). We lost our churches. We lost our wealth. We almost got another genocide in 1992. Turks/ gray wolves went on a mission to kill more Armenians in Artsakh. Just to name a few of the coward things animal turks have done to my people.

Despite many Lunatic Armenians saying 'Turks are reformed' these kind of statements are lunatic. Turks have never been 'sorry' never 'reformed' still deny until this day.

I think the minimum i could do is write 'a good turk is a dead turk' which is the case.

In general what you say is correct, and there was a real danger in 1992 that the Azeri Turks would finish off Karabakh and attack Zangezur

This belongs to another thread, but as a final point, PR is a key requirement, even more so for a small country like Armenia

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hakob - Monte is a national hero but what is your point exactly? I think most Armenians know who he is how brave he was and what he done for the freedom of Artsakh.

' out of 6 million diaspora Armenians under 1,000 showed up for the day Armenia needed it the most' why are you even bringing Monte up in this discussion ? he is above all of the diaspora put together a long with the other 1,000 Armenians that showed up on the day.

Stop going away from the facts and start talking about what sparapet said or what some other leader said. just because they come out and say something it's all okayyyyyyy lets sit back drink more coffees because they don't need our help it's actually funny. just for the record in case you were small back in those days 'Armenia' didn't have enough man on the day that is the reason why every plane leaving Armenia was stopped and anyone fit to fight taken out of the plane and sent to the battlefield.

in cinemas police/military would walk in and take the man to the artsakh to fight. enough man hey?????????

Gevz.
You are insulting every diasporan because you think they should have flooded in armenia in 1991, disregarding the fact that diaspora itself is not a single entity and every diasporan is a unique individual with their beliefs and understanding, plus the political/social environment at where they live and grow up.
A big part of freedom fighers were themselfs if not diasporans but at least children of diasporans that emigrated back from 1024 till 1972.
Those Syrian Armenians that you hate that are not coming to live in Artsakh gave over 300000 to Armenia during 40 years from 1924. What has changed now? Aren't they from same place? There are lots of questions that need answers right there. This is what should concern you the most. Not insulting part of your nation with a view about a war that we WON. And in big part because of Diasporans.
It is the neglect and cynical approach in you that makes me mad and I want to make you see that this same cynicism and prejudice that those 300000 saw maybe a big part of why those 80000 are reluctant to move in now.
You just said it. Police went to cinemas and transport to collect locals for front. Which cinemas around the world or which airport everywhere would you go to collect diasporans so you would not blame them? There has to be equal anderstanding. You are talking about people who live in versus who saw Armenia in their dreams.
Instead you should ask yourself, howcome there isn't a dual citisenship law in Armenia, guaraneeing that any diasporan receives the same privilages as locals upon entry. Why there are no special laws protecting capital and wealth that diasporans want to move back home? Why there are not laws protecting and guaranteeing dignity of every diasporan in Armenia however bad shape their language or customs they bring in.
Ask yourself is Armenia ready to take in diasporans returning home? is population ready to meet the with open arms?
What you are demanding from diaspora is what Israel has been achieving. Is Armenia's approach in any way comparable to Israel's(so we can expect emigration back)?
Excuses about government budget or conditions are not good enough. There has to be a culture. National culture here.
Diasporans have shown with several mass emigratons their readiness and desire that they would like to come back and leave in homeland. How many times has Armenia shown readiness to accept them in past 80 years?

[Gevz]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Gevz.
You are insulting every diasporan because you think they should have flooded in armenia in 1991, disregarding the fact that diaspora itself is not a single entity and every diasporan is a unique individual with their beliefs and understanding, plus the political/social environment at where they live and grow up.
A big part of freedom fighers were themselfs if not diasporans but at least children of diasporans that emigrated back from 1024 till 1972.
Those Syrian Armenians that you hate that are not coming to live in Artsakh gave over 300000 to Armenia during 40 years from 1924. What has changed now? Aren't they from same place? There are lots of questions that need answers right there. This is what should concern you the most. Not insulting part of your nation with a view about a war that we WON. And in big part because of Diasporans.
It is the neglect and cynical approach in you that makes me mad and I want to make you see that this same cynicism and prejudice that those 300000 saw maybe a big part of why those 80000 are reluctant to move in now.
You just said it. Police went to cinemas and transport to collect locals for front. Which cinemas around the world or which airport everywhere would you go to collect diasporans so you would not blame them? There has to be equal anderstanding. You are talking about people who live in versus who saw Armenia in their dreams.
Instead you should ask yourself, howcome there isn't a dual citisenship law in Armenia, guaraneeing that any diasporan receives the same privilages as locals upon entry. Why there are no special laws protecting capital and wealth that diasporans want to move back home? Why there are not laws protecting and guaranteeing dignity of every diasporan in Armenia however bad shape their language or customs they bring in.
Ask yourself is Armenia ready to take in diasporans returning home? is population ready to meet the with open arms?
What you are demanding from diaspora is what Israel has been achieving. Is Armenia's approach in any way comparable to Israel's(so we can expect emigration back)?
Excuses about government budget or conditions are not good enough. There has to be a culture. National culture here.
Diasporans have shown with several mass emigratons their readiness and desire that they would like to come back and leave in homeland. How many times has Armenia shown readiness to accept them in past 80 years?

Hakob i have Syrian Armenian friends - i think you read what i write incorrectly. I said those Syrian Armenians who's intentions are to come to Armenia from fleeing Syria milking money from the government, complaining about everything while awaiting for a visa to go another odar country.

DO YOU THINK THIS OK? If you have no problem with its better i don't discuss it anymore. FOR ALL THE SYRIAN ARMENIANS THAT LEAVE SYRIA AND END UP IN ARMENIA AND STAY IN ARMENIA AND DON'T LOOK TO GO ELSEWHERE GOOD ON THEM. I HOPE THEM ALL THE SUCCESS IN THIS WORLD.

But for all those just using our small country and talking crap with the intention of leaving - i say fk them. it's a different story being thankful and being an ungrateful imbecile.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hakob i have Syrian Armenian friends - i think you read what i write incorrectly. I said those Syrian Armenians who's intentions are to come to Armenia from fleeing Syria milking money from the government, complaining about everything while awaiting for a visa to go another odar country.

DO YOU THINK THIS OK? If you have no problem with its better i don't discuss it anymore. FOR ALL THE SYRIAN ARMENIANS THAT LEAVE SYRIA AND END UP IN ARMENIA AND STAY IN ARMENIA AND DON'T LOOK TO GO ELSEWHERE GOOD ON THEM. I HOPE THEM ALL THE SUCCESS IN THIS WORLD.

But for all those just using our small country and talking crap with the intention of leaving - i say fk them. it's a different story being thankful and being an ungrateful imbecile.

Before you talk about them. First, go ask about their problems and expectations and how they feel living and leaving Armenia. then we should talk.
See? there is a huge huge subject that I pointed in above post but we are not discussing.
Go to "Emigrating to Armenia" posts and see that there are only diasporans there but allmost nobody from homeland.
No connection, no mutual anderstanding, no mutual planning, no official welcome or representation, no positive advice, no preplanning and set up between any would be emigrant an local, etc, etc...

[Gevz]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Gevz.
You are insulting every diasporan because you think they should have flooded in armenia in 1991, disregarding the fact that diaspora itself is not a single entity and every diasporan is a unique individual with their beliefs and understanding, plus the political/social environment at where they live and grow up.
A big part of freedom fighers were themselfs if not diasporans but at least children of diasporans that emigrated back from 1024 till 1972.
Those Syrian Armenians that you hate that are not coming to live in Artsakh gave over 300000 to Armenia during 40 years from 1924. What has changed now? Aren't they from same place? There are lots of questions that need answers right there. This is what should concern you the most. Not insulting part of your nation with a view about a war that we WON. And in big part because of Diasporans.
It is the neglect and cynical approach in you that makes me mad and I want to make you see that this same cynicism and prejudice that those 300000 saw maybe a big part of why those 80000 are reluctant to move in now.
You just said it. Police went to cinemas and transport to collect locals for front. Which cinemas around the world or which airport everywhere would you go to collect diasporans so you would not blame them? There has to be equal anderstanding. You are talking about people who live in versus who saw Armenia in their dreams.
Instead you should ask yourself, howcome there isn't a dual citisenship law in Armenia, guaraneeing that any diasporan receives the same privilages as locals upon entry. Why there are no special laws protecting capital and wealth that diasporans want to move back home? Why there are not laws protecting and guaranteeing dignity of every diasporan in Armenia however bad shape their language or customs they bring in.
Ask yourself is Armenia ready to take in diasporans returning home? is population ready to meet the with open arms?
What you are demanding from diaspora is what Israel has been achieving. Is Armenia's approach in any way comparable to Israel's(so we can expect emigration back)?
Excuses about government budget or conditions are not good enough. There has to be a culture. National culture here.
Diasporans have shown with several mass emigratons their readiness and desire that they would like to come back and leave in homeland. How many times has Armenia shown readiness to accept them in past 80 years?

Do i really need to explain to you why no dual citizenship law in Armenia? It is no brainer to work this one out.

Armenia is not perfect

You didn't need to go to any cinema or airports to collect diaspora Armenians around the world. Did anyone go and force Monte, Karo or the other 1000 Armenians? No one did no one went looking for them. They came themselves.

I'm demanding the Diaspora does more.
I'm demanding Diaspora stop day dreaming about some BS democracy.
I'm demanding Diaspora Armenians serve the army
I'm demanding Diaspora raise $500 million a year. yes $500million.
I'm demanding we have enough man/women willing to die for our country should the time come.
I'm demanding Diaspora drop this mentality 'if serzh is stealing our money' why the fark should i help. ( you don't need to help serzh diaspora can operate and contribute and build our country in 5 years yes 5 years we would have an even more beautiful country.

I could go on.

[londontsi]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

....In terms of fighters. if the day comes, I will evaluate where Armenia needs me the most and will do that.
If they need me in the hills that's where i'll be.

If you haven't done any military service I wouldn't even bother.

Any professional army personnel would be horrified if he was allocated untrained squaddies to his fighting team.

The problem of these self declared judges of the diaspora haven't got a clue what they are talking about.

When they say 6 million diaspora and how many went to fight.
Look at the idiocy of that statement.

How many of those were not of fighting age, old and young.
How many of them had young family to support who could not be left for somebody to look after them.
Of all the ones who had no responsibilities and could arguably be suitable to fight had any military training to go to the front line.

I knew a young very passionate guy who went to Karabagh.
He was stationed far away from any fighting to help with fixing some vehicles or something.
I would say he was more of a headache to be slotted somewhere to be busy.

The fact is you do not learn to fight on the battlefield.
National service was compulsory in the Soviet Union.
Therefore you had able bodied men who could be deployed with minimal organisation.

The cultural setup in Armenia is such that people do leave their family members with their closest relatives to go to the front line.
Such behaviour does not exist say in the west, its impossible. Nobody will look after your family.

In order to reiterate my point, it is a known fact that the Azeri in the Soviet army were not put into fighting units.
They were in some working groups, while Armenians were in active units many of them having seen action in Afghanistan.
That showed on the battlefields.

So if you feel you are duty bound to serve your country in any war that may happen go and join the Armenian Army as a conscript as many young men are doing already.
I hope war never starts but if it starts you would be ready to serve your country.

Otherwise you would join those upstarts on these bulletin boards pontificating about who did what.

PS . Lampron and Gevz
From the quality of your debates I assume you are young and rather immature.
That's ok.
However if you have not done any conscript service in the Armenian Army you will not be of any value to serve your country in case of a war.
Essentially you will be the same as all those in the diaspora you are criticizing while sitting on your pedestal.

[Shant03]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hakop, I share the same urge to show Gevz the light but he refuses. This is most likely due to his parents brainwashing him into believe everything diaspora is evil, anti-russian, westerners. Just reading these comments I would guess he is in his early 20s and lives somewhere in LA. I would even go as far to say he has been to Armenia less than a handful of times in his life time. He isn't interested in uniting armenians, he is interested in achiving the same thing the turks are which is to divide and conquer armenia. Diaspora is nothing but a tool, you can either use it and make progression easier/quicker or you can throw it away because change makes you uncomfortable.


I don't have military background, but am fairly skilled with a variety of firearms including rifles, snipers..etc. Plus I've got years of call of duty experience under my belt


If it came down to war, I would probably be more useful as a mechanic or something computer related as that is my background.

[Gevz]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

If you haven't done any military service I wouldn't even bother.

Any professional army personnel would be horrified if he was allocated untrained squaddies to his fighting team.

The problem of these self declared judges of the diaspora haven't got a clue what they are talking about.

When they say 6 million diaspora and how many went to fight.
Look at the idiocy of that statement.

How many of those were not of fighting age, old and young.
How many of them had young family to support who could not be left for somebody to look after them.
Of all the ones who had no responsibilities and could arguably be suitable to fight had any military training to go to the front line.

I knew a young very passionate guy who went to Karabagh.
He was stationed far away from any fighting to help with fixing some vehicles or something.
I would say he was more of a headache to be slotted somewhere to be busy.

The fact is you do not learn to fight on the battlefield.
National service was compulsory in the Soviet Union.
Therefore you had able bodied men who could be deployed with minimal organisation.

The cultural setup in Armenia is such that people do leave their family members with their closest relatives to go to the front line.
Such behaviour does not exist say in the west, its impossible. Nobody will look after your family.

In order to reiterate my point, it is a known fact that the Azeri in the Soviet army were not put into fighting units.
They were in some working groups, while Armenians were in active units many of them having seen action in Afghanistan.
That showed on the battlefields.

So if you feel you are duty bound to serve your country in any war that may happen go and join the Armenian Army as a conscript as many young men are doing already.
I hope war never starts but if it starts you would be ready to serve your country.

Otherwise you would join those upstarts on these bulletin boards pontificating about who did what.

PS . Lampron and Gevz
From the quality of your debates I assume you are young and rather immature.
That's ok.
However if you have not done any conscript service in the Armenian Army you will not be of any value to serve your country in case of a war.
Essentially you will be the same as all those in the diaspora you are criticizing while sitting on your pedestal.

All your points are invalid. such as 'how many were not fighting age,young old blah blah' look at the number at 6 million heck let's call it 5 million or maybe 4 million? let's work it out @ 5% of 4,000,000. got the number? even though more than 5% were fit to fight otherwise you wouldn't have a 8 million diaspora from 4-5-6 million.

This is another baseless rubbish comment with no reality National service was compulsory in the Soviet Union.
Therefore you had able bodied men who could be deployed with minimal organisation.


Yes it was compulsory. Just because it's compulsory it doesn't make you have everyone being competent and ready and 'trained' just for the record we are a nation of everyone who wants to be a boss - most during soviet time never served properly to begin with never really cared they just done it just because it was 'compulsory' .

Half the people that started fighting in Artsakh from day 1 never even knew how to fire a gun properly.

Nothing justifies under 1000 man coming to fight. don't lie to yourself and make excuses.

By turning up on the day you didn't need to grab an ak47 and fight you could help with other things. but the main point is it didn't happen.

[Gevz]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hakop, I share the same urge to show Gevz the light but he refuses. This is most likely due to his parents brainwashing him into believe everything diaspora is evil, anti-russian, westerners. Just reading these comments I would guess he is in his early 20s and lives somewhere in LA. I would even go as far to say he has been to Armenia less than a handful of times in his life time. He isn't interested in uniting armenians, he is interested in achiving the same thing the turks are which is to divide and conquer armenia. Diaspora is nothing but a tool, you can either use it and make progression easier/quicker or you can throw it away because change makes you uncomfortable.


I don't have military background, but am fairly skilled with a variety of firearms including rifles, snipers..etc. Plus I've got years of call of duty experience under my belt


If it came down to war, I would probably be more useful as a mechanic or something computer related as that is my background.

1. I don't live in L.A never lived in L.A never will live in L.A or the U.S.
2. I have been living in Armenia for 8 months of the year since 2005.
3. I have 1 passport full of Armenia visa stamps i could show. ( but it's not a competition )
4. I'm not in my early 20s. I don't play call of duty buddy.
5. Never been brainwashed - just stuck in current times and looking back at the past of actual FACTS/Numbers.

Have a good day.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[QUOTE=Gevz;359148]Do i really need to explain to you why no dual citizenship law in Armenia? It is no brainer to work this one out.

No diasporan, a descendent of a victim of genocide that suffered for being Armenian is in any way ready to be treated with a status of foreigner in his homeland like a mexican illegal in california.
Indeed, go ahead and explain me why no dual citizenship in Armenia? Why would you expect it to be fair to take $500mln and not give a piece of paper to those people instead?
After all dual citizenship is the preliminary step to emigration.
Even Soviet Union quickly gave necessary citisenship back in 1940's. Isn't Armenia the real homeland of all Armenians?