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Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

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  • #51
    Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

    hi gegev
    thanks for the sources but i already knew all about them one of which is very old written in 2002 some of the arguments that the writer is making then are absolete. But I wasn't asking for that. I was asking for the estimated prices of the assets that was given to Russia (from unbias source) and what was the productivity of the assets as far I can see ( I can be very wrong) the only thing that was worth mentioning was the power plant in Hrazdan and i think it was half built. the MARS factory is actually a gost town building. Any information about those research institutes? How much research was coming out of them did they have decent funding? I didn't help myself to notice they are actually throwing all the blame on curruption. I believe corruption plays very important role not to attrect investment but in my opinion the more important factor is our blockade. I think this is the main factor that is repelling investments. There are many corrupt countries that still attrect investment. Look at lebanon. It is AT LEAST as corrupt as Armenia moreover there is much less stability but investments keep on coming because it has good location. After reading both I will ask again and again what is our ulternative. These are bunch of don't do this don't do that if you want to critisize give an ulternative. By the way do you have any information how are the assets doing now? Are they better or not. To end my post I want to repeate again Im not happy that we are doing such deals but we don't have other choice if you have a better idea lets hear it. If you don't critisizing something without knowing something better to do won't help and it's even distructive.

    Comment

    • #52
      Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

      Originally posted by Hye View Post
      hi gegev
      thanks for the sources but i already knew all about them one of which is very old written in 2002 some of the arguments that the writer is making then are absolete. But I wasn't asking for that. I was asking for the estimated prices of the assets that was given to Russia (from unbias source) and what was the productivity of the assets as far I can see ( I can be very wrong) the only thing that was worth mentioning was the power plant in Hrazdan and i think it was half built. the MARS factory is actually a gost town building. Any information about those research institutes? How much research was coming out of them did they have decent funding? I didn't help myself to notice they are actually throwing all the blame on curruption. I believe corruption plays very important role not to attrect investment but in my opinion the more important factor is our blockade. I think this is the main factor that is repelling investments. There are many corrupt countries that still attrect investment. Look at lebanon. It is AT LEAST as corrupt as Armenia moreover there is much less stability but investments keep on coming because it has good location. After reading both I will ask again and again what is our ulternative. These are bunch of don't do this don't do that if you want to critisize give an ulternative. By the way do you have any information how are the assets doing now? Are they better or not. To end my post I want to repeate again Im not happy that we are doing such deals but we don't have other choice if you have a better idea lets hear it. If you don't critisizing something without knowing something better to do won't help and it's even distructive.
      Hello Hye!

      Letting Russians to know about the things, in our bilateral relations, we are dissatisfied/concerned about, is another point for the alternatives search: that may influence Russians reevaluating/adjusting their priorities and attitudes in Caucasus.
      Last edited by gegev; 01-23-2010, 12:02 AM.

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      • #53
        Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

        Originally posted by Hye View Post
        ... Russia isn’t our foe but is our ally right now and if Russia will see we are getting off orbit will destroy Armenia or harm Armenia with the same amount and maybe a little more...
        This is what I have a problem with. It is absurd and unacceptable. Russia must have respect for Armenia’s sovereignty. Armenia is not Georgia and mutual respect between Armenia and Russia is important for a stronger Armenia but this relationship cannot be this way. There maybe no real solution for it at this time but it is important to be aware of it and to discuss it.
        All leaders of the world must always be reminded that the people are awake and watching. You seem to suguest we should all keep quite and never question our leaders. It is a citizens duty to question and hold their leaders in line with their responsibilities on his/her nation and people.
        B0zkurt Hunter

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        • #54
          Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

          Hi Gegev
          As I said before Russia knows very well when we are dissatisfued and Armenia is always saying what is dissatisfying and in the end these are negotiations. But in the mean time Russia knows how much to push Armenia and when to give it's freedom to move. This already exist and I told you how. In the end I don't want to repeat we have to put things in balance and judge. So If you are just indecating what is negative in our relation I agree with you there is negative things and there are many possitive things my disagreement with you is the reorientation Im against this and I think I have discussed in details in this tread why Im fully agaist reorientation. In my opinon if we put in balance the goods and the bads there are much more positive than negative.



          Hi Eddo211

          The key point and the most important sentence in all of your posts and my posts and that I ahve been telling all along is: "... at this time ..." You can't be more right I can't agree more with you one million percent. I have said over and over again I am not happy with the situation but we have no other choice now as far as Im concerned. And I have said beofore we need a new idea revolutionary plan. We must sit together and come up with something to make us stronger just like the zionists did in 1800s I don't like reffereing to them but it should be recognizes. In my opinon if we don't take steps find solutions we are doomed.

          Im not suggesting we all must shut up and leave our leaders do what they want. But Im comletely against people who only critisize and when I ask them what should we do they have no answer. Im not talking about you or Gegev but we Armenians have many such characters. As far as Im concerned politically Armenia is doing what it can beautifully. Internally I have my critisizm but again being part of the diaspora before I critisize Armenia and demend things from them I have no choice but to critisize the Diaspora because I am part of it specially Lebanese Armenian Dispora and I have big share of critisism and ideas but who is listening sadly.

          Comment

          • #55
            Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

            Russia is a foe to Canada. Russia is a foe to the EU on certain occasions and an ally at other times.

            Comment

            • #56
              Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

              Let's not be childish. When Russia has chance they will sell us for their own gain. We shouldn't become to cozy. Russia could care less about a tiny, relatively weak country like us.
              Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
              ---
              "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

              Comment

              • #57
                Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

                Originally posted by Mos View Post
                Let's not be childish. When Russia has chance they will sell us for their own gain. We shouldn't become to cozy. Russia could care less about a tiny, relatively weak country like us.

                For Russia, Russian interests are more valuable than Armenia's interests, we should see this as natural.

                Similarly we should see our interest as more valuable than others interests.

                Now we should see what are Russia's interests.
                Certainly not a tiny country.

                Abandoning Armenia would give the green light to other power interests who would move in to fill the vacuum.
                It will indicate that they are not interested in the region south of the Caucuses.
                Accept that their southern borders (North Caucus region) will be fractious and rebellious nationalities who would seeking independence.
                Pan Turanism would be unstoppable with its consequences in central Asia

                Originally posted by Mos View Post
                they will sell us for their own gain.
                They should look a the price carefully in case they are short changed.

                Originally posted by Mos View Post
                Russia could care less about a tiny, relatively weak country like us.

                Armenia "is not weak country".

                Look at its resilience

                A catastrophic earthquake.
                Economic system change followed by economic collapse.
                A major war.
                Mass migration loosing its future generation.
                Economic blockade.

                Compounded by incompetent and corrupt Governments.
                All this in 20 short years.

                And its enemies can only bark from beyond the fence.
                Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
                Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
                Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

                Comment

                • #58
                  Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

                  Originally posted by Hye View Post


                  Hi Eddo211

                  The key point and the most important sentence in all of your posts and my posts and that I ahve been telling all along is: "... at this time ..." You can't be more right I can't agree more with you one million percent. I have said over and over again I am not happy with the situation but we have no other choice now as far as Im concerned. And I have said beofore we need a new idea revolutionary plan. We must sit together and come up with something to make us stronger just like the zionists did in 1800s I don't like reffereing to them but it should be recognizes. In my opinon if we don't take steps find solutions we are doomed.

                  Im not suggesting we all must shut up and leave our leaders do what they want. But Im comletely against people who only critisize and when I ask them what should we do they have no answer. Im not talking about you or Gegev but we Armenians have many such characters. As far as Im concerned politically Armenia is doing what it can beautifully. Internally I have my critisizm but again being part of the diaspora before I critisize Armenia and demend things from them I have no choice but to critisize the Diaspora because I am part of it specially Lebanese Armenian Dispora and I have big share of critisism and ideas but who is listening sadly.
                  That is about how I feel as well Hye jan. Apris
                  B0zkurt Hunter

                  Comment

                  • #59
                    Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

                    Originally posted by londontsi View Post
                    Armenia "is not weak country".

                    Yes Armenia economically, socially and politically speaking is an extremely weak country.

                    Comment

                    • #60
                      Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

                      Originally posted by JohnCanadian View Post
                      Yes Armenia economically, socially and politically speaking is an extremely weak country.
                      Those points were mentioned in my posting.

                      I said resilience.

                      My definition of resilience is its ability to recover and flourish.

                      Armenia reminds me of Cyprus at its post independence period.
                      It was afflicted by most of the issues I mentioned except the "corruption levels". (But then we had an Archbishop for president).

                      Over the following 50 years after independence it overcame these problems to become a healthy and strong despite the tragedies of invasion etc.
                      Last edited by londontsi; 02-13-2010, 03:56 PM.
                      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
                      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
                      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

                      Comment

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