Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

from all i wrote in my posts you got this two words out of it? indeed lol

As for the news posted by Haykakan
Although I don't believe a lot in these press confrences I think this was what i was expecting and all the analyses by Azeri and Turkish and some Armenian sources that Russia was striking a deal in Krabakh against Armenia in Armenians back somehow failed but we must wait and see the actions. Again in my modest opinon Russia wants status quo in Karabakh i donno if you agree with me.

Russia does want instability in region to stop western influence on bypassing oil/gas to eastern Europe under their nose..........but with the latest oil deal with Turkey and a some kind of an agreement that was made with USA (not verified), I am not so sure now.

[Armanen]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

This topic is has be talked about so much and yet some still have the need to bring it up again and again. Without Russian backing and support over the past 20 years there would be no Armenia to speak of today.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

When you tell someone: you are not your boss’s dog and he retorts “You are fool”. Can you explain why can't we get rid of the inferiority symptom: “reinforced” in us throughout recent centuries?

Does an honorable man loudly express his disagreement, when offended by his boss w/o a cause? Or he just laughs at himself to express his agreement with him? Do we have the courage to tell the mighty our opinion loudly? We are a power too, though geographically/militarily small, but …Tigran Petrosyan is our's. Please remember that all the leaders are very much similar to us.

Should one be scared of expressing his opinion loudly, if it differs from the boss’s one. No please express it because your boss also needs in it: to make correct, sustainable and long lasting decisions, that will affect his/their future, too.

Are the world’s countries composed of just puppets and superpowers or the majority belongs to the alternative kind. May be Armenia still is a puppet, but it never would be a puppet of puppets.

Thus in your/my opinion, I guess, (I’ve read all your posts HYE, EDDO and Dear: others) our first step is :

expressing our reasonable, not exaggerated, opinions on the alternatives to the "boss" to enable/help/enforce him to make sound/sustainable decisions.

The rest comes next. But let’s think about alternatives now.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

This might have been covered before but just to add to this thread and to put things in perspective, at least for myself if nothing:

Obviously Armenia and Russia have close diplomatic ties and Armenia is considered the only Russian ally left in the region where Russian soldiers are welcomed and there is no restriction on Russian language. Armenia supports (the dying) CIS and is a member of the military alliance CSTO which she considers essential for her security from Turkey and Azerbaijan. There is a treaty of friendship that has been signed and several other documents that allows Russian bases (102nd being the largest) in Armenia with Russian soldiers in conjunction with Armenian troops (FSB) patrolling the Turkish and Iranian borders. Armenia and Russia relationship goes way back and has been kept by Russian’s role as Armenia’s protector against feared aggression from Turkey. Military cooperation between the two got closer after Georgian political crisis of 2003.

Russia also appears that she is taking control over Armenia’s economy in every avenue possible. Virtually the entire Armenia’s energy sector is controlled by Russia especially after Armenia handed over the management of the nuclear powerplant and six hydroelectric plants as a part of the equity-to-dept deal. Armenia’s telecommunication sector is owned by Rostelecom. Russian financial institutions (often run by Russian Armenians) are getting into the countries financial and banking systems. Russia is Armenia’s largest trade partner and her economy is closely tied to the health of the Russian economy. In fact Armenian government does everything to stay in good terms with Russia because of how vulnerable she is to any disruption of energy resources from Russia, be it by purpose or not. There are something like 1.8 million Armenians in Russia with some Armenians having strong ties in the Russian political arena who send home something like $110 million a year. Armenia uses the Armenia Diaspora political force in US and the EU (to some degree) to gain governmental aid and assistance. Trade between the two countries have been the highest and could possibly soon reach 1 billion a year however there are transportation problems and bottle necks to deal with.

Armenia’s official policy is not to pick sides. She participates in NATO partnership for peace exercises and contributes quite a bit to the War on Terror. USA and EU concerns in the region are mostly about oil politics and pipelines in Azerbaijan and the Caspian Sea. With Georgia plans up in smoke Armenia can become a bigger point of interest (protocols anybody?).

Either way you look at it Armenia’s dependence on Russia is actually growing, not declining. However there is a growing Armenian dissatisfaction and discontent.
- Armenia didn’t get the low gas price (per tcm) she was expecting from Russia in return for her loyalty.
- Armenians are very unhappy and think that they were cheated on that “dept-to-equity” deal. The deal involved handing over several major industrial enterprises in Armenia to Russia in exchange for Russia forgiving Armenia’s $100 million debt, which now gives even greater power of control to Russia.
- During the Presidential election fiasco Russia declared that the elections were free and fair, showing that they will support any leadership that is pro Kremlin regardless of whatever or whoever.
- Russia closed its borders with Georgia which also meant not allowing goods to reach Armenia regardless of all the pleas of Armenian Government to at least allow that, all was ignored by Russia as if they had joined the Turkish Azeri blockade. Some Armenian politicians connected the reason to Russia punishing Armenia for sending troops to Iraq.
- Russia objected to building a pipeline in Armenia to transport Iranian gas to Georgia and later on to Europe.
- Russia also put a limit on the diameter of the pipeline from Iran to Armenia.
- Russia is increasing her trade and relations with Turkey and has made oil deals.
- Russia still has cooperation to certain degree with Azerbaijan in oil politics.
- Russian–US relations are slowly warming up as Russia continues to loose more influence in her old backyard (Orange revolution in Ukraine).

I guess the question is that maintaining this type of relationship with Russia..........is it really the right move or beneficial for Armenia in the long run seeing how things are changing in the world.

[UrMistake]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Eddo Russia did all that cause the armenia wonted and persuaded this to hapen,often people mislead alliance and economical assistant...all of the grand projects is most of all in Armenia's favour a true friend of RUSSIA,
even if u where of position of power in armenia nothing big will change in the relations of the president with russia.as the Gegev said they serve armenia most of all,.

Even so the greatest and unexploited richness of armenia is here own people ..diaspora or not ..the only thing that will prevale in armenia is cause of its own people and not the great assistant of an allie or superpower...if things were in that way then armenia should not exist thousands years ...

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Eddo i think your misperception of what is going on is clouding your judjment. 1-Russia is getting stronger not weaker 2-USA is getting weaker 3-Russia, unlike any other country, has real interests in Armenia on many different levels. Russia is set to be a super power again thus we have every reason to stay at her side.
Gegev you simply dont want to understand that there are no other alternatives.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Eddo i think your misperception of what is going on is clouding your judjment. 1-Russia is getting stronger not weaker 2-USA is getting weaker...

I make no such claim and in fact I do agree, Russia seems to be growing stronger to a certain degree but the fact is that all ex Soviet Blocs are gone except for Armenia. That by itself is a big loss of power for Russia..........and yes, US economy is down the tube and she is not as strong as she used to be.

3-Russia, unlike any other country, has real interests in Armenia on many different levels....

Name them.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Name them.
1 Russia wants panturkism about as much as we do. We share the interest of not allowing the turcks to unite and strengthen even more, this is in both our national interests.
2 Russia has made many investments in Armenia and it would profit from them more if Armenia's economy progressed thus we share some economic interests.(both interests would be served well should the turckish border open)
3 Russia and Armenia share the same faith and are both alarmed and threatened by the spread of islam around them. You know how i feel about faith and religion but in this case it realy is a factor.
4 Russia wants to make an example of Georgia and Armenia. It will punish Georgia by rewarding Armenia. If Georgia does not play ball with Russia then Russia will punish it as it already has and will look for a alternative country to develope (Armenia). In this sence Georgias loss is our gain.
These are just some of the factors and there are others but i think my previous post along with this one answers your question "I guess the question is that maintaining this type of relationship with Russia..........is it really the right move or beneficial for Armenia in the long run seeing how things are changing in the world. " Not only is it beneficial but it is very much neccessery.
Many of the "bad" things you desc ribe that Russia has done are the direct results of the USA backed bullxxxx in the region. Russia and Georgia were at war so of course it had to close the border.
You mention them raising the price of gas but forget that it was kept well bellow market value for for 20 years.
Russia has given us loans when we needed them and over $100,000,000.00 dollars of FREE weapons.
It provides us with a complex and effective air defence network and has a army base to in hayastan to protect us.
I think the question asked in the title of this thread is rather silly. Allies (more like the puppet and his master in this case) dont need to be equal or fair to each other all the time yet they can still continue to be allies. Had Russia considered us a foe Armenia simply wouldnt be there now.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

- Armenians are very unhappy and think that they were cheated on that “dept-to-equity” deal. The deal involved handing over several major industrial enterprises in Armenia to Russia in exchange for Russia forgiving Armenia’s $100 million debt, which now gives even greater power of control to Russia.

Lets discuss the Mars electronic microchip producing factory's fate of the:
Property against the Armenian debt to Russia, deal:

The Russian government got from Armenia against the $100 million dollar debt:

1) Mars electronic microchip producing factory,
2) the Hrazdan thermal power plant,
3-5) three research institutes.

It was announced that the military production conglomerate - Defense Systems “Oboronitelnye Sistemy” as a possible operator of these Armenian enterprises.

Mars electronic microchip producing factory, which has military application, too, was built and equipped in the late 1980s by a British electronics firm for more than $300 million dollar, paid by the Soviet government.

Corruption and the Russian-Armenian governments collude resulted in this, the government officials got astronomical bribes, Armenian State budget lost huge amount of income. But the major looser was the Armenian population and this gradually will result in anti Russian sentiments.
Although it is widely known that the Russian government is corrupt, Russia should refrain from these tactics, at least against its ally to maintain long lasting friendly relationship between the nations by assisting not worsening the ally’s economic position.

What does the Mars now?
During recent years Russian government several times promised to restart the factory operations at full capacity but …
The Mars GIANT now operates on the level of a middle sized department store. The GIANT with Russia’s “assistance” produced a small egg for all Armenian population. And who knows if the precious equipment is still there or transferred to …

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Lets discuss the Mars electronic microchip producing factory's fate of the:
Property against the Armenian debt to Russia, deal:

The Russian government got from Armenia against the $100 million dollar debt:

1) Mars electronic microchip producing factory,
2) the Hrazdan thermal power plant,
3-5) three research institutes.

It was announced that the military production conglomerate - Defense Systems “Oboronitelnye Sistemy” as a possible operator of these Armenian enterprises.

Mars electronic microchip producing factory, which has military application, too, was built and equipped in the late 1980s by a British electronics firm for more than $300 million dollar, paid by the Soviet government.

Corruption and the Russian-Armenian governments collude resulted in this, the government officials got astronomical bribes, Armenian State budget lost huge amount of income. But the major looser was the Armenian population and this gradually will result in anti Russian sentiments.
Although it is widely known that the Russian government is corrupt, Russia should refrain from these tactics, at least against its ally to maintain long lasting friendly relationship between the nations by assisting not worsening the ally’s economic position.

What does the Mars now?
During recent years Russian government several times promised to restart the factory operations at full capacity but …
The Mars GIANT now operates on the level of a middle sized department store. The GIANT with Russia’s “assistance” produced a small egg for all Armenian population. And who knows if the precious equipment is still there or transferred to …

Let me get this straight- you are upset that Russia bought the very factory it paid to build during the soviet years? It really is as funy as it sounds but what is even funnier is that you are complaining about it.