Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Actually producing a aircraft is very complicated and expensive. Even boing does not produce the entire aircraft in America.

Right! But we can start with simple ones and establishing collaboration/communication channels in the industry, which has even greater importance in this business.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Gegev you have touched a point that I've been complaining about for a long time. It's the point that the diaspora is not investing enough in Armenia. There are people from the diaspora who have done that but most of them don't do it but just like to give aid. We don't need the aid we need investments to reopen the factories, to establish bigger and better factories where more people can work. And weapon industry is something where they can invest and should invest. I agree Armenia should have it's own aviation industry, but it doesn't have the resources to develop one; so we need the money to come from the outside of Armenia. We have already build our own UAV what more can we do with the right resources.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Gegev you have touched a point that I've been complaining about for a long time. It's the point that the diaspora is not investing enough in Armenia. There are people from the diaspora who have done that but most of them don't do it but just like to give aid. We don't need the aid we need investments to reopen the factories, to establish bigger and better factories where more people can work. And weapon industry is something where they can invest and should invest. I agree Armenia should have it's own aviation industry, but it doesn't have the resources to develop one; so we need the money to come from the outside of Armenia. We have already build our own UAV what more can we do with the right resources.

Our government purchases/orders of the UAV and other military equipment may serve as a starting reliable driving force for private investments in the area (P.S. corruption can destroy this idea in no time). Which would enable us paying scientists; "scientific"/proper salaries. Therefore it is a very attractive business to invest. And you remember that Armenian scientists had heavy contribution in USSR famous military industry, you know, one can be sure that soon, putting in it our hope, scientific resources, diligence and money, we may become competitive (gain excellence) in some areas of the world military equipment industry. Which would result in Armenia’s creative/strong image building (as it is in case of Israel) and force other countries, regardless they are ally or enemy, to take small/smart Armenia more seriously in world politics.

We must feed our Military Equipment producing industry form our state budget as much as possible and spending lesser amounts of money on buying thing, as possible. Taking into account that Russia, for a while, may help Armenia in case of military conflict. This way feeding/building economy and becoming stronger, as you suggest Karo.
And we shouldn’t surrender the whole industry to Russians, to enable Armenia to be in the first place in some military equipment production, and reap some economic/other rewards on its own, as it is in the chessmasters "business".

[Joseph]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Off topic but look at these brilliant photos:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/08/russia_in_color_a_century_ago.html

[Tigranakert]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Off topic but look at these brilliant photos:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/201...ntury_ago.html

Amazing pictures, thank you for sharing!

I felt really weird looking at this picture below, taken of Artvin in 1910, before the Armenian genocide, peaceful Armenian women an children lived here... what did they know what would have happened 5 years later? It's chilling to think about it...



Typical Armenian architecture by the way.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Medvedev's visit to Azerbaijan will take place on September 2, 2010

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100828/160370234.html

Russian and Azerbaijani presidents will sign a border delimitation deal during Dmitry Medvedev's visit to Baku to be held in September, the Russian foreign minister said in an interview with Azerbaijani media.
The exact date of the visit is yet to be announced.
"The main point on the agenda of the forthcoming visit will be signing the Agreement on state border and the Agreement on the rational use of water resources of the Samur River," Sergei Lavrov said.
He said the leaders of the two states have been working hard on the document in the past years. The agreement was finalized during last year's meeting between Medvedev and Azerbaijani President Ilkham Aliyev in Baku.
The Russian foreign minister praised Azerbaijan as "our important strategic partner in South Caucasus and in the Caspian Region."
"Our relations are on the rise. They are multifaceted, so the whole spectrum of these relations is traditionally being discussed at a meeting between the two leaders. I'm sure this meeting will not be an exception," Lavrov added.

The visit starting date is September 2, 2010.
Symbolic date for Arthakh.

Interesting to see on TV how they treat each other. As opposed to secret and public documents to be signed; the interaction itself would reveal some truth, because they are not experienced actors, yet.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

The visit starting date is September 2, 2010.
Symbolic date for Arthakh.

....

The visit date is chosen intentionally because, I guess, our Ally together with Ilham A. (Ilham ApeOglu) are going to make a surprise for us on the Arthakh independence day; by recognizing it in their joint statement.
Thanks in advance.

[Mos]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I see what Russia is doing; it's playing the "ally" game for both sides. In controlling the Karabakh Issue, Russia can exert more control over South Caucuses. And remember Azerbaijan has resources unlike Armenia, so wouldn't be surprised if they decide one day to sell us for Azerbaijan, sure would make sense from a Russian stand point. Russia in essense wants to maintain the status quo because it's most influential in this kind of stalemate setting.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I see what Russia is doing; it's playing the "ally" game for both sides. In controlling the Karabakh Issue, Russia can exert more control over South Caucuses. And remember Azerbaijan has resources unlike Armenia, so wouldn't be surprised if they decide one day to sell us for Azerbaijan, sure would make sense from a Russian stand point. Russia in essense wants to maintain the status quo because it's most influential in this kind of stalemate setting.

Please tell me how it will make sense to lose their final foothold in the Caucasus for some oil. Because Armenia is the only base they have left in the region, it's becoming the center of Russian power in the region. So let's say they betray us, the only logical choice we have is to search new allies, isn't it? It also means that they must leave our territory, doesn't it? So they lose their last base and control over the region for some oil. And how long until Azerbaijan turns back to Turkey and the West now Russian power in the region is weakened. Azeris and Turks would love to see this happen it's the answer to all their problems. Russia weaker in the Caucasus, Armenia left alone and their power in the Caucasus will grow.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Caucasus update III

As we Armenians watched the president of the Russian Federation visit the memorial to our 1.5 million martyrs we should have asked ourselves the following: Why is Moscow going out of its way with this display of solidarity with Armenians despite their growing relationships with Turkey and Azerbaijan? Would anything have changed in Russian-Armenian relations had Medvedev 'not' visited the genocide memorial? And why isn't Ankara or Baku speaking up against Moscow because of it?

For the past several years Moscow has been trying very hard to entice Turkey and encourage Ankara to move away from their transatlantic alliance. Moscow considers Turkey an important regional power it wants to have good relations with. Turkey controls one of Russia's most vital trade routes, the Dardanelles. Turkey is one of Russia's top trading partners. Hundreds of thousands of Russians tan themselves on Turkish beaches all along the Mediterranean. As we have seen, Moscow has just as many interests in Turkey, if not more, than the West. So, why isn't Moscow pathetically kissing Turkish behinds like Washington does by not recognizing the Armenian genocide?

Political sense would suggest that Moscow has every reason in the "political interests book" to ignore and/or to undermine the Armenian Genocide much like how Washington and Tel Aviv have been doing for many years. Since Russia has significant interests in Turkey, why is Moscow continuing to recognize the Armenian Genocide, and in such public manner? Why is it that Russia's official press continues to treat the Armenian Genocide as a historical fact, while the Western press places the term in quotation marks? Why is it that Medvedev, Putin, Lavrov, Ivanov and the Russian Patriarch have paid official visits the Armenian Genocide memorial every time they have been in Armenia, and we yet have to see a single Western official do the same?

[Does anyone remember how the president of our "best" neighbor, Iran, literally ran away from Yerevan the night before he was scheduled to visit the genocide memorial? How about Hillary Clinton's recent "personal" visit to the memorial complex where she insisted that no Armenian official accompany her? And where is France's Sarkozy? Why hasn't he paid Armenia and the genocide memorial an official visit? After all, hasn't France been entrusted with being Armenia's Western bait?]

The reality of the matter is that Russians do not have to do us Armenians any extracurricular favors simply because, as I have explained numerous times before, Armenia exists today as a result of Russian presence in the Caucasus. Moreover, by not doing us Armenians any favors like solemnly showing up in Tsitsernakaberd with flowers, Moscow can actually have a freer hand in its dealing with regional Turks (which would make perfect political sense for Moscow); and Armenia would still not have the option of breaking away from its total dependency on Moscow.

So, taking all the aforementioned political nuances into account, why does Moscow continue towing the Armenian line when it comes to a topic that has no political value for it? Besides, according to our Russophobes, wasn't Russia supporting Armenia for its selfish interests and nothing more? Moscow's selfish interests would naturally compel it to think: we already do enough for that barren tiny little speck on the map called Armenia, let's not totally ruin our relationship with the region's numerous Turks and Muslims over that genocide nonsense...

This may come as a shock to some but could it be that the Russian Federation in fact sees Armenia as a true partner, a natural ally that it truly wants to sustain and protect - unlike the West that sees everything as dollar signs and oil lines? I think our Russophobic "nationalists" seriously need to think about this one. I'd love to see/hear their lame explanations regarding why Moscow tows the Armenian line despite Yerevan's total dependence on it and its close relationship with Turks. After all, isn't that the excuse we constantly hear from Washington?

Nevertheless, Medvedev's visit to our genocide memorial complex at Tsitsernakaberd is a clear message to Turks and Armenians alike. Medvedev's visit to the "Hill of Honors" war memorial complex in Gyumri (see article at the bottom of this page) is also a strong message to Turks and Armenians, perhaps even more of a poignant message. The war memorial in question is a tribute to Russian officers killed fighting Ottoman Turks in historic Armenia. Does anyone else besides me see the symbolic significance of this newly built memorial complex and the Russian president's visit to it at such a volatile time in the region? The symbolism at hand is unmistakably Tsarist and anti-Turkish in nature.

But why isn't Ankara throwing a temper-tantrum as they always do in such circumstances? Well, needless to say, everyone in the region, including Turkey which is sorely dependent on Russian trade and energy, is terrified of Russia these days (especially after what happened to Georgia in 2008). And that is precisely the reason why Russian officials today can freely pay Armenia an official state visit and publicly announce that it is bolstering Armenia's national defenses against Turks. That is why Russian officials today can freely lay flowers at the genocide memorial and honor Russian officers that died fighting Turks in Armenia - without Turks threatening, boycotting or complaining about anything. Yet, despite all this and much-much more, we still have Armenians today that complain about our relationship with Moscow. Go figure...

Thanks to Tsarist intervention in the Caucasus starting in the late 18th century, the Russian Empire created a geopolitical climate that eventually allowed an Armenian state to come into existence. Tsarist Russia defeated Turks in every one of the some two dozen major battles they fought against the Ottomans (the last one being at the battle of Sarikamish in 1915). Russians and Turks are natural competitors/enemies in Eurasia; they are destined to clash despite their economic dealings with each other; and any future clash between Russia and Turkey will undoubtedly create new geopolitical realities on the ground in Asia Minor, realities that will most definitely favor the Russian side. Today, with an Armenian state already in existence and with a reborn Russia clearly drawing inspiration from its Orthodox and Tsarist heritage, the Caucasus is once again becoming a fertile platform for active Russian-Armenian cooperation, one that can potentially create a geopolitical renaissance in the region. While some of our peasantry see grave risks here - I see great opportunity. When Russians and Armenians have cooperated, Turks have gone into decline. Yet, instead of us rushing forward to exploit and/or manipulate this unique situation developing before us, I see a significant portion of the Armenian nation today engaging in counterproductive rhetoric and Russophobic fear mongering. Hence, the term that I apply to these pathetic people - self-destructive peasantry.

For centuries the Russian empire, a Eurasian power virtually stretching from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean, fought Ottomans, Tatars, Mongols and Westerners alike. For centuries various world powers have coveted Russian territory. For centuries various world powers have taken their turn in attempting to break-up Russia; none successfully of course. Geopolitically, not much has changed today. Russia is still targeted by pan-Turkism, the West and Islam; and more importantly for us Armenians, this realization drives Kremlin policy makers today. This is where our unique capabilities as a people can come into play. Armenians are well placed in all levels of Russian society (they are by-far the most successful diasporan group we have); with some foresight and a pan-national effort we can be in Russia what xxxs are in America. Our cooperation with the Bear can prepare the platform, the geopolitical climate, from which we can eventually move westward. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that international law or old pieces of documents mean anything to anyone (international law is written by the rich and powerful to protect their wealth and power), the only plausible scenario under which Western Armenia can be liberated is one that envisions Russian and Armenian troops side-by-side marching into Western Armenia. This is not wishful thinking, under right geopolitical circumstances and a genuine Russian-Armenian alliance, it can happen.

Despite what our agent provocateurs want us to believe, as long as Armenia stays firmly in the Russian camp, Russia will not be a liability for Armenia but a blessing; Russia is not going to annex Armenia; Russia is not going to sell Armenia to Turks; Russia is not going to force Artsakh under Azeri rule; nor are Russians going to convert to Bolshevism again... Our Russophobes are fast running out of excuses as well as credibility these days. Armenia will remain a sovereign state firmly within Russian orbit. What Moscow wants from us Armenians is a tight alliance with Yerevan, an alliance that it can genuinely trust going forward. If we manage to give them this partnership I am confident that significant opportunities will eventually develop for our embattled republic as a result. As the West sinks deeper and deeper into decline, the East continues its gradual rise. Political and economic observers are now unanimous in their forecasts that the twenty-first century will belong to the East. As one of the three major driving forces of the East, Russia, due to its vastness, potent military, geographic location and virtually limitless natural wealth, will by-far have the greatest advantages in the twenty-first century. If it continues on its current progression, Russia will be in the driver seat in the near future; at the very least, I would like to see Armenia in its passenger seat.

Arevagal