Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

MOSCOW URGES EU NOT TO FORCE CIS STATES TO MAKE CHOICE

October 30, 2013 | 19:14

Moscow is calling on the European Union to find a form of interaction
with CIS states that will not force them to choose between Russia
and EU.

Grigory Karasin, Deputy Foreign Minister of Russia, said the EU must
seek a form of interaction that will not force CIS states to make
an artificial, often a false choice, to be either with EU or Russia,
RIA Novosti reported.

"Our neighborhood should be a space of fair and mutually beneficial
cooperation without dividing lines, not a ground for geopolitical
games around the so-called 'focused states'," Karasin said in a
statement during the international conference.

Russia is attentively following the developments around Eastern
Partnership project aimed at getting closer with Armenia, Azerbaijan,
Georgia, Moldova, Belarus and Ukraine.

News from Armenia - NEWS.am

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

PUTIN TO BRING "ISKANDER M" SYSTEMS TO ARMENIA

01.11.1314:52

RF President Vladimir Putin's upcoming visit to Armenia will be
full of surprises. According to our sources in Russia, the question
that Putin will bring with him "Iskander M" systems has been lately
discussed. The Iskander is a mobile ballistic missile system produced
and deployed by the Russian Federation.

The system is intended to use conventional warheads for the engagement
of point and area targets, including:

hostile fire weapons (missile systems, multiple launch rocket systems,
long-range artillery pieces) air and missile defense weapons,
especially stationary fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft at airfields
command posts and communications nodes troops in concentration areas
critical civilian infrastructure facilities

According to our sources, the systems will be brought to Armenia for
the 102nd Russian military base in Gyumri, but they will belong to
Armenia. This once again proves that Russia is really Armenia's ally.

P.S. Russia shows that first of all it fulfills its military
obligations, believes that Armenia is an important military ally and
sees Armenia as an important geopolitical center.

Slaq.am - Information source http://www.slaq.am/eng/news/160681/

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

PUTIN TO BRING "ISKANDER M" SYSTEMS TO ARMENIA

01.11.1314:52

P.S. Russia shows that first of all it fulfills its military
obligations, believes that Armenia is an important military ally and
sees Armenia as an important geopolitical center.

Slaq.am - Information source http://www.slaq.am/eng/news/160681/

I don't think so....he can take those Iskanders back to Russia and stick it. If he wants to show that Armenia is an ally and we are comrades then he should have brought with him attack aircraft instead of stupid mobile missiles when you as Russia has given Azerbaijani the air superiority over the conflict and then some.

Iskander has achieved accuracy, range and reliability (ability to penetrate defences) that constitutes an alternative approach to precision bombing for air forces that cannot expect to launch bombing or cruise missile fire missions reliably in the face of superior enemy fighters and air defenses. Training and competence requirements are much lower than for normal air force assets like a fighter bomber squadron utilizing guided bombs

Keep us dumb and happy....

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Eddo i hope you do realize that those weapons were not just given to the Azeris but they were bought at full market prices. Armenia on the other hand gets lots of freebies and deeply discounted prices. If Russia does not sell the Azeris weapons then someone else will because they are ready to pay. If Russia does not give us weapons then no one else will because weapons are expensive and Armenia's budget is tiny. People here express all sorts of outrage but about what exactly? Russia does not have to treat Armenia like its baby because Armenia is not its baby. Russia gives us weapons not because of brotherly love but because we share some strategic interests and it is not in Russia interest to go beyond these needs and to help Armenia further then that. The custom union may change this scenario for the better but most people have such unrealistic expectations from the Russians that they are bound to be disappointed. The same unrealistic expectations apply to the diaspora regarding western powers. Like how many times does America have to spit in your face for you to understand that they dont give a ssshhhiitt about our genocide nor us in general. The unrealistic expectations are not limited to foreign governments and the government of Armenia is held to the same unrealistic expectations. Sure there is a lot of corruption and ignorance in the Armenian government but which government on earth is this not the case? Sure the average American citizen may not feel like it is getting ripped off as much as the citizen of Armenia but this is not a correct perception of reality. The truth is Americans get ripped off just as much as Armenians but the ripping off part is much more refined in the USA so you dont feel it as much. If you want to compare Armenia to the USA then you should be upset that the Armenian government is doing a crude job of ripping off its citizens not so much by the fact that it is ripping them off. No i do not think that corruption is ok in any government and i do believe that we should always strive to improve ourselves but if you look at what is going on from a rational bystanders perspective the situation just makes no sense at all. We got people who live in countries which are even more corrupt then Armenia yet they do not complain about the corruption there but choose to focus on Armenia. We have Armenian citizens who say they are moving out of Armenia to escape corruption but the countries they move to are even more corrupt. The problems which effect Armenia differently then other countries are not related to corruption as much as they are related to limited or a lack of resources, blockaded borders, wars, earthquakes, goestrategic tug of war between super powers..Sure you should complain about corruption when it happens anywhere but how about we give these other factors which are far more relevant to Armenias well being at least the same amount of effort and energy as we do about complaining about corruption of its government as if it was the only corrupt government on earth.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

What the hell are you rambling about. I have already made it clear to you that When it comes to Armenia (and more so Artsakh) Russia, USA, Europe, Turkey they are all the same to me. You bring in AG....man I could care less which state recognize it even Turkey.
fck them all including your precious Russia (btw, Mr Kalashnikov is the man)

There is nothing wrong or economically any different than what I am proposing.....there is nothing wrong with demanding Russia to maintain a proper air superiority between two Waring nations that they have full control over, FREE weapons or not, you think Azeris can convert to other nations weapenry/aircraft/etc that easy....they need Russia as much as us.

A decent Armenian airforce capable of defending its territory its not only that much more expensive if consider we countinue with old/current trends of depending on air to ground missiles which are coming out of our asses and getting outdated in no time.....an small effective airforce is an investment in the security of Armenia and Artsakh.

Azeri bombers will have 75 percent chance of delivering their payload before some of them getting shotdown by Armenian air defense missiles.....major damage done where we can't effort to take any.

Haykakan I hope it is very clear to you now where I stand.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[QUOTE=Eddo211;346072]I don't think so....he can take those Iskanders back to Russia and stick it. If he wants to show that Armenia is an ally and we are comrades then he should have brought with him attack aircraft instead of stupid mobile missiles when you as Russia has given Azerbaijani the air superiority over the conflict and then some.

I understand Eddo, It is not the real partnership you would have liked. Russia have and will allways keep playing both sides.
But lets look at Georgian air force for example. Georgia has hugged west with both hands and look, they don't even have anything that we have. They have only 12 su25's. With your logic, georgians should get upset and ask USA or Nato as to why they don't provide them with F22's? Instead they got only a few clumsy vietnam era helicopters. Do not even talk about viable air defence systems.
The most important point to remember is that azeris have got the money, they could arm themselfs just like saudis or quwait with american weapons and then god help us. But instead they buy from russia (thanks god russians are not asleep). So russia gives azeris enought to keep them a customer, but as soon as baku starts feeling getting ahead, just like you heard Artsakh defence minister say," we have recieved so much armament that we don't even have enough storage necessury", russia balances it out.
The most important thing for Armenia to do is to play the field right. Keep talking with russia, europe, Iran. Make yourself strategically important. That is the only guarantee we have. Arms will be there.
Despite what Igor muradian sayd, our government had to give in to Putin's pressure otherwise the military balance was turning to baku's favor for real. Americans had georgia. But I find it that they did 10 times less for it militarily then what russia has done for Armenia. But instead they provoked ill prepared georgia into war with loss of all those territories. By the way that picture is the nightmare keeping baku calm now.
What are we supposed to do? kiss russian booths? No.
We should keep our head high, but be aware keenly as to what is the mechanism of keeping russian arms coming.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

You guys rather sit take chances and shoot missiles at aircraft while I will bomb you wave after wave.....I guess no aviators in this forum. A fully equipped squadrant of updated SU-25s (6 aircrafts) will bring Azeri airforce to their knees....if you know how to fly.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

You guys rather sit take chances and shoot missiles at aircraft while I will bomb you wave after wave.....I guess no aviators in this forum. A fully equipped squadrant of updated SU-25s (6 aircrafts) will bring Azeri airforce to their knees....if you know how to fly.

I don't think that there is any aviators in this forum anyway. I think, that more fighter planes would be great. Especially not against azeris, but against possible turkish incursions, because in case of war with baku, maybe turks would like to mimic american air power, as to influence situation on ground without puting booths there, in order to divert our attention or maybe taking out some of our important asets. But again, I don't see any point in word "demand", in such that anything that can be demanded, or bartered or pleaded, I am sure our government has allready done.
My point is, more you ask from russians, more you depend from them.
I don't think that azeris can produce waves of bombing, because in 1st war they had a couple of dozen aircraft and we had none, but they could never utilise them in mountains effectively.
The danger is from west, where our Araratian dasht is open terrain up to Abovian city. But again, taking up precious (pilots)Su 25s against turkish F16s maybe just asking for disaster and wiping our air force out. That could be psicologically more damaging to us then their bombs.
I think making Armenia saturated with air defences like a porcupine is more promising in that any turkish loss is an international PR disaster for them.
Also, looking back at Iraq or afghanistan wars, I think US had such air superiority because iraqi air defences were allmost none and outdated 50's tech. But in afghanistan US lost several helicopters and few aircraft because of shoulder fired rockets.
I also see that because of modern shoulder fired rockets, right now syrian airforce is allmost none effective against rebels.

[Mher]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I understand Eddo, It is not the real partnership you would have liked. Russia have and will allways keep playing both sides.
But lets look at Georgian air force for example. Georgia has held west with both hands and look, they don't even have anything that we have. They have only 12 su25's. With your logic, georgians should get upset and ask USA or Nato as to why they don't provide them with F22's? Instead they got only a few clumsy vietnam era helicopters. Do not even talk about viable air defence systems.
The most important point to remember is that azeris have got the money, they could arm themselfs just like saudis or quwait with american weapons and then god help us. But instead they buy from russia (thanks god russians are not asleep). So russia gives azeris enought to keep them a customer, but as soon as baku starts feeling getting ahead, just like you heard Artsakh defence minister say," we have recieved so much armament that we don't even have enough storage necessury", russia balances it out.
The most important thing for Armenia to do is to play the field right. Keep talking with russia, europe, Iran. Make yourself strategically important. That is the only guarantee we have. Arms will be there.
Despite what Igor muradian sayd, our government had to give in to Putin's pressure otherwise the military balance was turning to baku's favor for real. Americans had georgia. But I find it that they did 10 times less for it militarily then what russia has done for Armenia. But instead they provoked ill prepared georgia into war with loss of all those territories. By the way that picture is the nightmare keeping baku calm now.
What are we supposed to do? kiss russian booths? No.
We should keep our head high, but be aware keenly as to what is the mechanism of keeping russian arms coming.

The part about Georgia isn't quiet the same though. America has to be careful in what it does with Georgia because Georgia's enemy is Russia, a country that if for nothing else, due to its nuclear stockpile has to be taken seriously. Russia on the other hand would have to deal with Azerbaijan, a mere infant compared to Russia.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I think Hakob touches on a important issue. The fact is that much of our western regions including Yerevan are exposed and difficult to defend. I think we need to either build newer important buildings in more easily defendable areas or make artificial fortifications to the ones we have.