Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

The part about Georgia isn't quiet the same though. America has to be careful in what it does with Georgia because Georgia's enemy is Russia, a country that if for nothing else, due to its nuclear stockpile has to be taken seriously. Russia on the other hand would have to deal with Azerbaijan, a mere infant compared to Russia.

Well, Georgia became russian enemy because of turning to west. So would Armenia, in case we became european partner. You see, then Armenia would have to become part of a western mechanism trying to isolate russia in region, just like georgia has. Then russia would wipe us out by using azerbaijan. Simple. Because turks know how to play russian friends, just like they did by ataturk, for gaining the land in exchange of some guarantees for russia. Russia would not have to use it's army like it did with georgia. Azeris would do it for them. And west would perch on high branch and only craw, just like it did when georgia was being dismantled.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

The part about Georgia isn't quiet the same though. America has to be careful in what it does with Georgia because Georgia's enemy is Russia, a country that if for nothing else, due to its nuclear stockpile has to be taken seriously. Russia on the other hand would have to deal with Azerbaijan, a mere infant compared to Russia.

Mher, If america had to be careful for itself, then why did it manipulate georgians to go to war with russia? Weren't georgians US allies? Manipulate they did and nobody can deny it. The proof, among many many things, is in the US political and military instructors, who were present on the battlefield and some of whom were killed and shown on russian tv with their IDs. US Lied and backstabbed georgians. But by then georgia had no other way left but keep sinking into west's backend deeper and deeper. You see, with that cretin called sahakashvilli (whom I don't doubt is a CIA agent) US had an objective to totally and irreversibly damage georgia-russia relationship(and make georgia totally dependent from west). A relationship which spanned 220 years and had started when georgians invited russian troops on their land to repeal Iranians and turks. I remember georgians were russian sweethearts all the time. Sort of spoiled kids of russia. But then Shevardnadze started independent negotiations with CIA and white house in late 80's, before Soviet empire collapsed, and a dark shadow passed between Moscow and Tbilisi. Russia entered into Abkhazia and Ossetia later (while georgians were committing genocide of locals) but did not recognize their independence at that time. Russians wanted to hold therritories for bargaining chips to keep Georgia under control.
I am sure, if Georgians had not so blindly trusted west and had kept negotiating with russia instead of war, they would not suffer the horrible defeat and would still be talking about possibility of uniting with that lands. But then what is Georgia's integrity for US? A war would make russians and georgians enemies, then georgians would have nowhere to go but to US and turkey (NATO ally). Georgia would be in bag for west. And that's exactly what happened.
If anybody thinks that Artsakh matters for west is badly mistaken. It matters for us, azeris and russians(Later because of strategic importance). That's between whom the game has to be and will be played.
And people, like Igor Mouradian, who insist that entering customs union is a defeat or disaster and bring and mix colorful proeurope economic, social issues with Artsakh problem to prove that EU is the way, are no less cretins then sahakashvilli. Our number one problem and victory is and will be Artsakh, always. Without it we cannot have neither economic nor social progress. Without it Armenia will cease to exist.
We have to play the game with whoever holds the most chips in the region. And that is still russia.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I don't think that there is any aviators in this forum anyway. I think, that more fighter planes would be great. Especially not against azeris, but against possible turkish incursions, because in case of war with baku, maybe turks would like to mimic american air power, as to influence situation on ground without puting booths there, in order to divert our attention or maybe taking out some of our important asets. But again, I don't see any point in word "demand", in such that anything that can be demanded, or bartered or pleaded, I am sure our government has allready done.

Turkish airforce cannot get directly involved in renewed war in Artsakh other than AWACS and satelite intelligence transfer.

With an effective small airforce like I suggest would bring Azeri airforce to their knees this includes using our own UAV systems for intel. We could not face Azeri airforce head on, we will be destroyed......again, I repeat, this is very important and its not just words, you have to know how to fly!! how to Aviat, and where and when to strike their airfields, command centers while all the time avoiding their air defenses and Mig fighters, at all cost.

lol against Turkish airforce our best bet it to hide our SU-25s until time for insurgency and then bring them out for surprised strikes
.
We need a viable airforce and the only reason we don't its because Russia knows WE ARE BORN AVIATORS....we even give them the brain child of Mig design.

An aircraft like a SU-25 can stay in service more decades to come with constant upgrades and modification in weapons, navigation, and radar systems......all this time youe outdated and obsolete air defense missiles are gathering rust in hangers surrounded by tumble weeds.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

When the war starts; (updated version)

What are Azeri advantages?
1) They will rely on a surprise and a diversionary attack. (Londontsi)
2) Smerch will be very effective, as a mass destruction weapon in plain/flat land with high concentration of troops w/o proper entrenchment and underground fortifications as well as weaponry located in open air.
3) They have proper arsenal of other sophisticated weapons.
4) Guarantee that Russian’s wouldn’t intervene and hoping that Artsakh/Armenia will loose time and efforts on asking Russian’s to intervene and will be anxious by getting refusal or promise to intervene later on.
5) Hoping that Artsakh/Armenia leaders wouldn’t be that decisive, to react immediately, and will try to stop it by applying to the international community, loosing precious time to react.
6) Knowing our troop/weaponry locations that are not changed/dispositioned for years.
7) Enjoying Turkish and “Turkic” concealed support in manpower, armament and political area.
8) They have their own satellite to screen/locate objects in Artsakh/Armenia. Are they fully aware of its know how; to use properly?
9) Artsakh army wouldn't target Azeri civilians.
...
What are our advantages?
1) We hold the higher ground (in general) and normally it is easier to defend than to take. (Eddo)
2) Artsakh/Armenian soldiers are better trained and have a stronger will. (Eddo)
3) Counter attack is inbuilt as part of the defence strategy. (Londontsi)
...
What are Azeri weaknesses?
1) They can attack only Artsakh, while Artsakh will target all the country.
2) Oil, gas fields and major industrial complexes can be destroyed during the first hours of war. Excluding the oil fields in the Caspian that can cause environmental disaster of the sea. (Hakob)
3) Lack of strong will. (Eddo)
4) Lack of proper training. (Eddo)
5) The battlefield hostilities will quickly evolve into artillery duels. (Londontsi)
6) If the Azeri are seen to have started the war they will loose all political support from US, France and other EU countries. (Londontsi)
7) Turkish involvement has to be discounted. (Londontsi)
8) Although we will suffer, the level of refugees and destruction would be much higher on the Azeri side. (Londontsi)
9) Azeri may suffer internal ethnic unrest or rebellion against aliev's clan in case of prolonged hostilities. (Hakob)
10) Azeries are world wide known as an oppressor of its population democratic rights.
11) Fresh memories on crashing defeat in recent Artsakh war.
…
What are our weaknesses?
1) Low military budget. (Eddo)
2) Small airforce. (Eddo)
3) Latest and on-going arming of Azerbaijan. (Londontsi)
4) Azeries will target our civil population.
5) With artillery engagements, close proximity trenches will become impossible to hold. (Londontsi)
…
What should be done before the war starts?
1) With good intelligence, if we know an attack is imminent, we should pre-empt and deny them the surprise. (Eddo)
2) Building additional entrenchments and underground fortifications in the plain/flat land areas.
3) I heard we have arrangements with France to use their satellite data for screening/locating military/other objects in Azerbaijan, because the Russian data will be unreliable.
4) The times require us to grow up and make/produce our own satellite and/or their parts/subsystems. (Londontsi)
5) Azeri positions will become vulnerable with the tactical evacuation of Armenian trenches.(Londontsi)
5) Mobilizing military specialists of Armenian decent, from Russia, that are familiar with “Smerch” and other weapon know-how; that Azeries bought from Russia. Scientists that took part in developing the arms will be very useful.
6) Intensifying our UAV production and thinking about their other alternative usage ways. (censoring, bombing, transportation of things, ... (Hakob)
7) Laser military technology further development and its possible usage against enemy satellites. (Hakob)
...

Agree Eddo.
Effective airforce operations at the start of war are crucial, nobody can argue this. All the rest happens after ...

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Not only its important as a military platform but it also opens doors to domestic contractors, engineers, young minds.....it is an industry of its own and pushes for inventions and dreams.

AEF....Armenian Eagle Force.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Not only its important as a military platform but it also opens doors to domestic contractors, engineers, young minds.....it is an industry of its own and pushes for inventions and dreams.
AEF....Armenian Eagle Force.

I remember under USSR we had aircraft factory subsidiary in Armenia, where we produced aircraft parts, subsystems; I guess aerials etc., as it was produced for spaceships. Let’s hope that our leadership would be smart enough to reopen the factory doors for our scientists, workers, if they are still here in Armenia. Part of the military budget can be used to produce the cheapest and advanced parts; MADE IN ARMENIA.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[QUOTE=Eddo211;346117]Turkish air force cannot get directly involved in renewed war in Artsakh other than AWACS and satelite intelligence transfer.

Why cannot turkish air force get directly involved? Who is going to stop them? Nato? Any western country? Recent history shows that turkey sent it's planes several times to bomb neighbors with impunity. Iraq, Cypress, Syria. Europe, US, NATO or anybody did not do anything.
Maybe you mean russian air base is the deterrent? So do lot of people who hate russia, but take russian cover for granted. Interestingly, though I think that russia is an ally, but i don't trust them fully. And I don't think that we should take russian military partnership for granted. I think we should rely on ourselves with worse case scenario in mind as to a high probability of turkish involvement. Otherwise we wont be able to survive worst case scenario in real.
When you look at the google satellite images and maps it is very easy to spot azery or our air bases. They are easy targets.
I think both air forces will suffer fatal blows by rocketry right at the beginning of hostilities. And the main reason is the lack of operations depth for both adversaries. Both air forces are within easy reach for even short range missiles.
Maybe something like this is calculated by our defense dept, and is one of the reasons as to why our government does not emphasize air force development as much as air defenses, MLRS systems and heavy ground equipment.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Why cannot turkish air force get directly involved? Who is going to stop them? Nato? Any western country? Recent history shows that turkey sent it's planes several times to bomb neighbors with impunity. Iraq, Cypress, Syria. Europe, US, NATO or anybody did not do anything.
Maybe you mean russian air base is the deterrent? So do lot of people who hate russia, but take russian cover for granted. Interestingly, though I think that russia is an ally, but i don't trust them fully. And I don't think that we should take russian military partnership for granted. I think we should rely on ourselves with worse case scenario in mind as to a high probability of turkish involvement. Otherwise we wont be able to survive worst case scenario in real.

I don't think Turks want Azeris get stronger by helping them take Armenia.....they want to take it themselves, one day. I agree though, that danger is there and we should be prepared. Turkish Azeri relations is not as good as we may think I know we consider all of them Turks
If Azerbaijan attacks Artsakh only then it is a good bet that the Turkish government will not get directly involved.

When you look at the google satellite images and maps it is very easy to spot azery or our air bases. They are easy targets.
I think both air forces will suffer fatal blows by rocketry right at the beginning of hostilities. And the main reason is the lack of operations depth for both adversaries. Both air forces are within easy reach for even short range missiles.
Maybe something like this is calculated by our defense dept, and is one of the reasons as to why our government does not emphasize air force development as much as air defenses, MLRS systems and heavy ground equipment.

This is good point and you are right, this is why we must have aircraft bunkers, improvised airfields even in mountainous areas......Russian aircraft are designed to operate off-airfield and even dirt runways. You can hide them if you really want it to....weather and terrain might become a challenge but you could run missions and then disappear.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

If your air force survives opening blows, then with skillfull pilots you can use mountains to hide your attacking aircraft untill last moment. That would be very effective air support around Artsakh and Armenia. Problem is the rest of azeriland is flat plains and unfortunately their radars will keep you lighted much easily, unless you take them out first. That means hide your aircraft untill the time is right. Maybe few days or even weeks.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Exactly.....strategy is the key to the success of AEF

say a band of six crack pilots flying modified SU-25s could not only provide air cover for ground troops here and there when called upon but in time reduce the operational capabilities of the Azeri airforce drastically and painfully.
also with coordinated attack with ground forces, intel, and divergent AEF can sneek in undetected until the payload has been delivered. The best flight path between two points is not necessarily a straight line.

Did you know an SU-25 can push Mach 1 once clean (no bombs, drop tanks, missiles hanging off the wings).