Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Artashes, I can sum up what the argument is in this thread.
This thread was created to discuss about true intentions of russia towards us, as to ally or foe. But I find it that actually it was sort of anti russian platform at best, where there were no true strategic discussions about russia but blind bashing and hysteria that prevails also in some circles in homeland. All kinds of baseless facts and statements are made about russia nowadays, but in my opinion real points are missed. At the same time, those bashing russia act like europe US or nato are heavens for nations and joining them would solve all our problems. Those tend to mix economic and social issues with security, and mostly never reflect that our most important issue today is the security. Because if you look at things from priorities of Armenia's security surrounded by turks, clearly there would not be europe or russia discussions today.
Maybe not in diaspora, but it is clear that there is a large group in Armenia ( trying to gain political and economical dividends or from fear of soviet empire shadow, some by just being sponsored by west) trying to damage Armenia/russia relations as much as possible (Igor mouradian for one) and bring about pro-west orange revolution of sort. I find it tragic that for those circles Armenia's security and Artsakh issue is not first priority.
There is also a large group that is slave minded towards russia too, that has made up their mind towards russia regardless of any reasons.
But, creating an atmosphere or movements that do not calculate things based on national interests and realities and dissolving our political unity is one very dangerous thing. We don't have the luxury of debates for the sake of preferences.
I find it disturbing that being a russia hater trughout my life(those who know me close, can remember and verify), I have to act as a russia defender in front of those westaholic hysterics, trying to make them think with true unbiassed reality in mind. We seem not able to learn even from turks, who never say russia or nato or France or anybody is an enemy, do unite on singular national ideas as to real benefits/damages and conduct policies only from priority of national interests towards anybody for today and future. Having this kind of discipline one can not exclude an alliance even with devil itself, if it suits us. Individual liberties and economic well being does not constitute national well being. That is how in history, Armenians being better off individually from surrounding ethnic groups have always lost nationally even to the weakest foes around. We seem to be too self centered and materialistic, mixing our individual aspirations with national ones.
That is the reason that I bring up those facts.
We should ask ourselves questions before "loving europe or russia".
1) Who's supplying us with armaments?
2) How are we guaranteeing safety against turkey and with who's help?
3) Who has invested in Armenia the most so far?
4)How has Russia conducted itself in the region, and with what motives and results?
5) How have europe and Nato conducted themselves in the region and with what motives and results? (Keep Georgia in mind and what will happen to us if in their place?)
6) What will russia gain if it "sells" out Armenia, like some people say.
7) What will russia loose if it looses the Armenian platform?
8) How are those related to karabakh?
9) Why is russia supplying us all those armaments? and what it indicates about russian plans and commitments in the region?
10) What could realistic expectations be for our security if we replace russia? What can we expect from europe?
11) Will europe commit to our security? Has europe committed itself to anybody's security?
12) What changes will gender equality or other human rights make in Armenia's identity? Consequences to emigration?.
13) How much real economical progress can be achieved in keeping with europe? with russia? (look at Bulgaria or Rumania and compare to Belarus, Kazakistan. Factor in our blockaded situation).
13) Which is our main goal in choosing europe or russia? Economy and human rights or security and Artsakh?
14) How and when will economic prosperity affect Artsakh independence, emigration and which real way with europe or russia.
15) How much and which way will our internal socioeconomic problems be affected with europe or russia. Keep in mind corruption and lack of productiveness of not only our government but also general population.
16)What are real reasons of emigration and what will good relations with europe, turkey bring?
17) How will benefit or be restrained turkey and azerbaijan with our choice with europe or russia?
18) how much influence turkey, azerbaijan have on europe, nato or russia versus us? What does this imply?
There are many many more questions that need smart and strategic, unbiassed discussions before we should make up our minds towards europe or russia.
That said, it seems that strtegic planners in government have allready made decisions about our future. Some call it selllout, some call it Putin's pressure, I call it national strategic planning. The question is am I with our government or not? Am I willing to put aside my disagreement with government or discontent towards oligarkhs and corruption and be ready to back up my government on important crossroads? In case not, can I look at things and criticise our government based on our national realities and goals with intelligence and facts or be part of histeria about anything official that comes from Yerevan?

[Artashes]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Eddo, thanks on both accounts. Hakob thank you as well for the input & clarity.
I neither support the Russia bashing NOR do I support the "mother Russia" thing. I am pro Hayastan.
Thanks again for your input & contributions & hope.
Artashes

[Vrej1915]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Artashes, I can sum up what the argument is in this thread.
This thread was created to discuss about true intentions of russia towards us, as to ally or foe. But I find it that actually it was sort of anti russian platform at best, where there were no true strategic discussions about russia but blind bashing and hysteria that prevails also in some circles in homeland. All kinds of baseless facts and statements are made about russia nowadays, but in my opinion real points are missed. At the same time, those bashing russia act like europe US or nato are heavens for nations and joining them would solve all our problems. Those tend to mix economic and social issues with security, and mostly never reflect that our most important issue today is the security. Because if you look at things from priorities of Armenia's security surrounded by turks, clearly there would not be europe or russia discussions today.
Maybe not in diaspora, but it is clear that there is a large group in Armenia ( trying to gain political and economical dividends or from fear of soviet empire shadow, some by just being sponsored by west) trying to damage Armenia/russia relations as much as possible (Igor mouradian for one) and bring about pro-west orange revolution of sort. I find it tragic that for those circles Armenia's security and Artsakh issue is not first priority.
There is also a large group that is slave minded towards russia too, that has made up their mind towards russia regardless of any reasons.
But, creating an atmosphere or movements that do not calculate things based on national interests and realities and dissolving our political unity is one very dangerous thing. We don't have the luxury of debates for the sake of preferences.
I find it disturbing that being a russia hater trughout my life(those who know me close, can remember and verify), I have to act as a russia defender in front of those westaholic hysterics, trying to make them think with true unbiassed reality in mind. We seem not able to learn even from turks, who never say russia or nato or France or anybody is an enemy, do unite on singular national ideas as to real benefits/damages and conduct policies only from priority of national interests towards anybody for today and future. Having this kind of discipline one can not exclude an alliance even with devil itself, if it suits us. Individual liberties and economic well being does not constitute national well being. That is how in history, Armenians being better off individually from surrounding ethnic groups have always lost nationally even to the weakest foes around. We seem to be too self centered and materialistic, mixing our individual aspirations with national ones.
That is the reason that I bring up those facts.
We should ask ourselves questions before "loving europe or russia".
1) Who's supplying us with armaments?
2) How are we guaranteeing safety against turkey and with who's help?
3) Who has invested in Armenia the most so far?
4)How has Russia conducted itself in the region, and with what motives and results?
5) How have europe and Nato conducted themselves in the region and with what motives and results? (Keep Georgia in mind and what will happen to us if in their place?)
6) What will russia gain if it "sells" out Armenia, like some people say.
7) What will russia loose if it looses the Armenian platform?
8) How are those related to karabakh?
9) Why is russia supplying us all those armaments? and what it indicates about russian plans and commitments in the region?
10) What could realistic expectations be for our security if we replace russia? What can we expect from europe?
11) Will europe commit to our security? Has europe committed itself to anybody's security?
12) What changes will gender equality or other human rights make in Armenia's identity? Consequences to emigration?.
13) How much real economical progress can be achieved in keeping with europe? with russia? (look at Bulgaria or Rumania and compare to Belarus, Kazakistan. Factor in our blockaded situation).
13) Which is our main goal in choosing europe or russia? Economy and human rights or security and Artsakh?
14) How and when will economic prosperity affect Artsakh independence, emigration and which real way with europe or russia.
15) How much and which way will our internal socioeconomic problems be affected with europe or russia. Keep in mind corruption and lack of productiveness of not only our government but also general population.
16)What are real reasons of emigration and what will good relations with europe, turkey bring?
17) How will benefit or be restrained turkey and azerbaijan with our choice with europe or russia?
18) how much influence turkey, azerbaijan have on europe, nato or russia versus us? What does this imply?
There are many many more questions that need smart and strategic, unbiassed discussions before we should make up our minds towards europe or russia.
That said, it seems that strtegic planners in government have allready made decisions about our future. Some call it selllout, some call it Putin's pressure, I call it national strategic planning. The question is am I with our government or not? Am I willing to put aside my disagreement with government or discontent towards oligarkhs and corruption and be ready to back up my government on important crossroads? In case not, can I look at things and criticise our government based on our national realities and goals with intelligence and facts or be part of histeria about anything official that comes from Yerevan?

My dear,
Most of your questions are very relevant.
But I'm afraid, the conclusions you seam to suggest are not that much, since you think like an Armenian, and expect Russians to think alike, regarding our matters...
The fact is, that selling Artsakh, or sacrificing tens of thousands of Armenian lives is not at all a cost Russia is unwilling to pay, in a game of belly dancing with Turkey and Baku. Russia did paid this price times and times again, and was willing to pay just 5 years back (Medvedev's Kazan poker party), and seems to pay just same price today...
Second and most important part of this point: From a Russian point of view, loss of Artsakh and slaughter of tens of thousands Armenian lives does ABSOLUTELY NOT MEAN loss of their FOREPOST in Armenia.
Once you do accept this fact, you would see things slitely different.

I do not say this happily. Our tragedy is that we have a "partner" that never considered us as a subject, let alone an ally.
It always considered us, or our land, as an object.

In this very fact, we, by our blind russophilia, for 3 centuries, have a huge responsability.
We still act as slaves, happy to find a better master than the turk, and ready to any sacrifice and humiliation, just to "gain" its "love"....

In all this matter, the question is not the "West".
The question is to avoid formal reintegration into russian empire, just like in 1921...., since the "empire is back", whether we want it or not.
No matter the difficulty, we must preserve our ability to decide, our independence we finally reached 'by chance', so easily, that some seem to ignore its value, and are ready to loose...
Since every return of the empire, costed us well too much in lives and in land, for the last 2 centuries....
We just can not afford anymore an other russian ruletka party....

The biggest threat to Artsakh is not Baku, nor Ankara.
It is Moskva.

It is a petty, but this is reality.

And once again, not having other evident or easy choices is not an excuse, to accept 'our faith'.
We are condemned to resist, and find the impossible way to survive.
Accepting russian diktat with no resistance, a smile on our face, is nothing else than a jump in the Yeprad... minus our honour we would not save at least....

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

"The biggest threat to Artsakh is not Baku, nor Ankara.
It is Moskva."
After this statement any reasonable person will conclude that you are indeed nothing more then a russophobe and your intentions in this forum are obvious.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

"The biggest threat to Artsakh is not Baku, nor Ankara.
It is Moskva."
After this statement any reasonable person will conclude that you are indeed nothing more then a russophobe and your intentions in this forum are obvious.

Ay mart kordz tchuness, et nakhatassoutioune hasganalu tu unag tchess....
Nuyne vor tu hasganass, bidi vetz etch kreyi... Hamperutiune tchuneyi.
Ko hamar tchi, togh ko panin kna ...

[Artashes]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

"The biggest threat to Artsakh is not Baku, nor Ankara.
It is Moskva."
After this statement any reasonable person will conclude that you are indeed nothing more then a russophobe and your intentions in this forum are obvious.

Haykakan, I've read many of your post and am in agreement with much that you have written. Although I don't actually know you, I still like you a lot. Seems to me you'd make a wonderful person to live next door to.
However I have to disagree on this last statement of yours.
It seems to me that Russia is acting for its own best interests & not Hayastan's.
I regret to say that but the history I've read seems to verify if not scream that.
We (Hay) need any & all the help we can get but every single offer of help from any quarter that I'm seeing offered is comming with strings attached that are not in Armenia's best interests.
How unfortunate for us.
Instead of trying to strengthen a dear friend & help that dear friend get back on his feet so they could have a strong friend to stand with them (and of course for pure altruistic reasons) it seems obvious to me they would rather own all of Armenia's assets & really dictate to us their agenda.
I gotta pick their backup over the west's for sure but the phrase -- TRUE friend is not a title I can bring myself to call them.
Man we are surrounded right now & I'm not seeing any really good options for us and I'm not seeing any true hearts saying " we understand what's happening & has happened to you" step forward for us.
And yet despite all the negative comments out there I do see real progress in many areas.
I feel we gotta take what help we can get but in the final analysis it's up to us (Armenians).
Still I read your posts with great interest & many times with much enjoyment & enlightenment.
Artashes

[Vrej1915]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Intentionally Forgotten Tragedy
Igor Muradyan
Thursday, 28 November 2013,


In 1989-1992 the Soviet Union and Russia perpetrated genocidal acts against the people living in Nagorno-Karabakh. The Soviet and Russian troops killed over 1000 Armenians, over 40 villages in different regions of the country were emptied and destroyed, the region of Shahumyan and other tight-knit communities of Armenia were destroyed. Furthermore, thousands of Armenians were persecuted severely.
Since then neither the State Duma, nor the Russian government has anyhow addressed or assessed these events. No single Russian author, whether a writer or a journalist, has published a single line on these tragic events.
Every act or inaction by Russians is clear, and that would have been strange if it were the other way round. How about the attitude of the Armenians to these developments. Neither Yerevan, nor Stepanakert has a single monument to these events. These events are not marked anyhow, not a head of state or parliaments of Armenia and NKR has stated anything about them. Not a single significant piece has been produced though a lot of so-called writers have been speculating the topic of heroism, glorifying scoundrels who, by the way, are responsible for the events in Getashen and Shahumyan.
The official writer Zori Balayan has not published anything about these events. Why? He could have written in his notorious letter to Putin that Gulistan was destroyed and handed to the Azerbaijanis by the Russian troops in June 1992.
Earlier the impression was that of full confidence that the topic would stay under control, and apparently there are some people in charge who exercise control. Over many years these people had two purposes – make Armenians subject to Russia without forgetting about their own selves.
Now that Russia is again introduced as Armenia’s savior, it would be good to remind about these tragic events, intentionally forgotten as part of certain manipulations.
It is not a secret that history has been distorted in Russia’s favor over the past few years. This is a clear liquidation of memory. The Karabakh issue is detested by the Russians because it demonstrated how it is possible to create new borders outlined by their empire. This is as unacceptable and terrifying to them as the presence of NATO troops on the post-Soviet territory would be.
The purpose of the Russians is to prove that the Armenians do not have the right to display political and human will, as well as the right to homeland. They will not succeed, and restoration of sovereignty lost on “September 3” should begin with recovery from amnesia. It would be the right time for the parliaments of Armenia and NKR to consider declaring the 13th of June (1992) as the Day of Russia’s aggression against Armenia and the Armenian people.
- See more at: http://www.lragir.am/index/eng/0/com....EFielDNR.dpuf

[Vrej1915]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

HOW RUSSIAN TROOPS OCCUPIED ARTSAKH

The ex-head of the National Security Service Davit Shahnazaryan made
an interesting statement. He said that in 1992 the 23-rd division
of the Russian army occupied a considerable part of Artsakh for
Azerbaijan. Shahnazaryan reminded that in 1992 the USSR did not exist,
and it was the Russian army's division.

Most participants of the war in Artsakh say in private talks that
the Russian army often fought against them, therefore Azerbaijan
achieved some minor successes in Artsakh. After the liberation of
Shushi and Lachin a large-scale offensive was launched on the Armenian
armed forces in Artsakh, and Azerbaijan took a lot of territories,
and there were a lot of victims on the Armenian side. Later most of
those territories were liberated but some territories continue to be
occupied by Azerbaijan, such as the north of Martakert.

Strangely, aside from private talks there have been no specific
statements on Russia's active support to Azerbaijan during the war. A
lot of people know about this but have been silent so far. And besides
this is not a surprise in a country where a person named Krivopuskov
is on a friendly diplomatic mission who used to head the Russian riot
police in 1991 in Artsakh, disarming and intimidating the Armenians
of Artsakh.

If Krivopuskov is in full diplomatic blossom in Armenia, hardly any
flower will fade from a public statement about the actions of the
Russian army against the Armenian forces in Artsakh.

However, the statement was voiced, and it is good that it was voiced.

If Davit Shahnazaryan exaggerates, let someone prove the opposite
with facts and arguments. If there is no exaggeration, a chain of
exaggerations of the Armenian-Russian friendship will open up which
was used to feed the citizens of independent Armenia shaping the
mindset that they have to obey the Russians in any case because they
will at least protect us from enemies.

In reality, the Russians did not protect us from our enemies but fed
us to our enemies, and our security depended on how soon Russia's hand
would get tired from feeding or how soon the enemies would get full.

Russia understood that it would be easier to negotiate with a full
enemy. Hence, the Russians fed Armenians to the enemies of Armenians
and later negotiated with them.

The Armenian people escaped this meat grinder when they defended their
right to make decisions and did not exchange it with any abstract
and relative security. This made the victory of Artsakh possible.

The primary guarantee of security is the exercise of the right to make
decisions. Whenever this right is given away, the other components
of security become relative and abstract.

Hakob Badalyan 22:20 27/11/2013 Story from Lragir.am News:

http://www.lragir.am/index/eng/0/comments/view/31407

[Vrej1915]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

WHO INVOLVES KAVPOLIT.COM INTO ANTI-ARMENIAN PROVOCATION?

20:18 27/11/2013 " SOCIETY

Russian portal "Kavpolit.com" renowned for its articles covering
Caucasus issues was involved in anti-Armenian provocation: on the
site, while translating the travel notes of the British traveler
Daniel Hamilton serious mistakes were made, and phrase and photos
with anti-Armenian content were added, which do not exist in original.

It is noteworthy that Daniel Hamilton has published his notes on a trip
to Armenia and Karabakh from May to September, and the "translation"
was published on Kavpolit.com site in November.[http://kavpolit.com/]

In the notes made on May 16 Daniel Hamilton writes about the Armenian
town of Shushi, emphasizing that the town is often called by its
Azeri name 'Shusha' in various guidebooks. In the translation of
"the Caucasian Policy" the city is named in Azerbaijani as "Shusha"
which is presented as a place-name used by the author.

"Shushi was once one of the largest Armenian towns in the world and
the heart of the Caucasus silk trade. It retains some of its historic
buildings but saw scenes of some of the most bitter fighting during
the Karabakh war. War stories about Shushi are legendary in Karabakh.

The town served as a base from which the Azeri army launched missile
and shell attacks on Stepanakert before being dramatically recaptured
one night by Armenian forces," the blogger writes.

He notes that during the trip to Shushi one can see the influence
of both Christianity and Islam in Nagorno-Karabakh. "Ghazanchetsots
Cathedral, which was used by the Azeri army to store missiles during
the war, has been fully restored and should not be missed.

Similarly, you should make an effort to visit the Yukhari Govhar Agha
mosque which, while no longer in use, is protected by the Nagorno
Karabakh Government," the blogger reports.

In the translation of the "Caucasian policy," we see a discrepancy
with the original text: "Today Shusha is a village, but once it was a
major city of a Silk Road and the center of the Armenian culture. Many
historical buildings are preserved there that are worth seeing. Shusha
is a surprising mix of Islamic and Christian civilizations. Visit the
local fortress of Ghazanchetsots Cathedral, the 18th century Govhar
Agha mosque."

Further, in translation made by D. Jalilova a completely false
paragraph, which cannot be found in the original article, appears:
"Unlike the other monuments of local architecture, the mosque is in
terrible condition. Though officially it is protected by the state,
the building is in a dilapidated condition and the people are not
allowed to enter. Thus you may admire it only from the outside."

It is noteworthy that Daniel Hamilton, just on the contrary, writes
that the mosque is under the patronage of the NKR government.

The translator of the "Caucasian policy" entitled the excerpt about
Aghdam "Pigsty in mosque and gardens on the ruins", though text of
there is very little information about Aghdam in the original text.

Naturally, in the article written by Daniel Hamilton there is nothing
said about the pigs grazing in the mosque.

In the article published in "Caucasian policy" among the pictures made
by Daniel Hamilton there are also photos of animals grazing in the
mosque, however, the British author does not possess such photos and
cannot have them as this photo "runs" in the Internet for a long time;
a number of Internet sites used to discuss its accuracy. There were
suspicions that the photo is mounted with the help of Photoshop. It
was this picture and the mentioned above paragraph about the animals
in the mosque that caused a number of armenofobic comments on the
site of the "Caucasian policy."

Below is the paragraph about Aghdam published on Kavpolit.com. To note
in advance that only the phrase "Aghdam is a ghost city" in this text
coincides with the original publication.

Thus the fabrications attributed to Daniel Hamilton: "Today Aghdam
is a ghost city where there is not a single undamaged building left,
except the mosque of the 19th century. The mosque is decorated with
blue mosaics and is rather beautiful. But the building is gradually
falling apart because of the lack of care. And on the marble floor,
where people were once praying cows and pigs graze today. The military
allow shooting the mosque. But you can hardly be allowed to walk
around the city with a camera. Armenian fortifications are located here
which should not be photographed. The cattle is grazing on the ruins,
and people from nearby villages come to the gardens that have still
remained there to get a harvest, several dozen of homeless people
live in deserted houses," D. Jalilova writes in the "translation."

In the translated article were not included the comments of the author
concerning the fact that Karabakh had become the part of Azerbaijan
due to "the Soviet Russian policy" which was divide and rule,"
which was aimed at preventing the ethnic groups of strengthening
(e.g., Armenians)."

The blogger also writes that Nagorno-Karabakh is a democratic
country where the rule of law prevails: "The country held successful
Presidential elections in 2012 which received top marks from
international election observers (myself included)."

Naturally, this phrase was not included in the "translation" by D.

Jalilova where quite a lot of phrases appeared which cannot be found
in the original.

P.S.

At the time of publication of this article, the provocative photo was
removed from the Kavpolit.com site; probably the editorial office had
already guessed that the portal has been exposed, by involving itself
into provocation. Armenofobic comments below the article have been
removed as well. However, some fabrications of the translator presented
as the opinion of the British blogger still remain on the site.

Naturally, we understand that the editor cannot check every translated
line and often the work is based on "trust." This incident is likely
to contribute to the fact that our colleagues from the "Caucasian
policy" will be more responsible in hiring employees and with the
trust towards them; otherwise the level of trust towards the portal
will be sharply decreased among the audience.

http://www.panorama.am/en/society/2013/11/27/kavpolit/

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

My dear,
Most of your questions are very relevant.
But I'm afraid, the conclusions you seam to suggest are not that much, since you think like an Armenian, and expect Russians to think alike, regarding our matters...
The fact is, that selling Artsakh, or sacrificing tens of thousands of Armenian lives is not at all a cost Russia is unwilling to pay, in a game of belly dancing with Turkey and Baku. Russia did paid this price times and times again, and was willing to pay just 5 years back (Medvedev's Kazan poker party), and seems to pay just same price today...
Second and most important part of this point: From a Russian point of view, loss of Artsakh and slaughter of tens of thousands Armenian lives does ABSOLUTELY NOT MEAN loss of their FOREPOST in Armenia.
Once you do accept this fact, you would see things slitely different.

I do not say this happily. Our tragedy is that we have a "partner" that never considered us as a subject, let alone an ally.
It always considered us, or our land, as an object.

In this very fact, we, by our blind russophilia, for 3 centuries, have a huge responsability.
We still act as slaves, happy to find a better master than the turk, and ready to any sacrifice and humiliation, just to "gain" its "love"....

In all this matter, the question is not the "West".
The question is to avoid formal reintegration into russian empire, just like in 1921...., since the "empire is back", whether we want it or not.
No matter the difficulty, we must preserve our ability to decide, our independence we finally reached 'by chance', so easily, that some seem to ignore its value, and are ready to loose...
Since every return of the empire, costed us well too much in lives and in land, for the last 2 centuries....
We just can not afford anymore an other russian ruletka party....

The biggest threat to Artsakh is not Baku, nor Ankara.
It is Moskva.

It is a petty, but this is reality.

And once again, not having other evident or easy choices is not an excuse, to accept 'our faith'.
We are condemned to resist, and find the impossible way to survive.
Accepting russian diktat with no resistance, a smile on our face, is nothing else than a jump in the Yeprad... minus our honour we would not save at least....

Here we go again....
Armenians say "Սևին սապոնն ինչ կանի որ խևին խրատն ինչ անի". How are you judjung 2 centuries? is that from another nation or Armenia? Where are your facts?
My fact is that out of greater Armenia only the part that was under russian controll survives to this day. It says something about finding common ground with them.
How are you sure that selling Artsakh will not affect Armenia is behind me. How can it be done if whole of Armenia will stand up and fight for Artsakh, like last time?
Or if Russians want to sell Artsakh, then why are they supplying so much arms that ends up in Artsakh and they know that. Where is the logic?
Everybody that asks, as to why is russia selling arms to azerbaijan answers right away that because russia is in bad shape economically. Fair. But why give arms to Armenians? Couldn't russia sell whole of Armenia with artsakh to Azerbaijan lets say for 100Bln? Why not say this and be done with our relations with russia ha?(I don't doubt that Igor Mouradians will predict this for future soon).
If you're knowledgeable enough answer this as to why russia arms Armenia? Wouldn't it make us integrate within russia without arms more quicker if we were weaker? We sure would be in so much panic that we would beg for it. Right? So why has not russia gone that way?
Why do you say that I expect the russians to think like us? I know how russians think believe me. Better than you 100%, I grew up with them. I would say your lack of knowledge or maybe your confidence of lack of other's knowledge of russians gives you impetus to try to portray them being with horns and breathing fire.
If customs union economic integration is a loss of independence for you, then european integration should be really hatefull for you, since it is not only economic integration, but also political, social and national subjection to that group. We have not yet stepped in their doors, but europe demands from us to honor gey rights to free public displays such as parades, integration of gender equality(as homosexualism) in school education, suppression of every national expressions as nationalism, free spread of any religious group even if they preach anything against Armenian values like families. It was not the russians, but european rights watch that tried to organize azerbaijani film festivals in out towns, while we are still technically at war with them.
I am not talking yet about laws that have to be changed to confirm to european laws, about total financial dependency to eurobank.
Howcome it is not about west when every article you bring in this forum only bashes russians and praises european values? Do you read them before pasting?
" our independence we finally reached 'by chance', so easily, that some seem to ignore its value, and are ready to loose..." This expression of your's really hearts and is off by miles. We did not reach anything easily. It was the result of many dedicated patriots and irigated by blood of thousands of their's in sibirian gulags and fronts of Artsakh.We could not have paid heavier price for it.
Since you are not even aware of what it took to gain our independence, you sure are not fit to act as the protector of it.
Nobody is saying not to "resist" russian or any other occupier. What the most important point is to do that based on reality and with correct calculations. Not by baseles political populism.