Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[Artashes]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Below I have disorted news posted by Vrej, followed by the real story.


Իրանի ապտակը Հայաստանի իշխանությանը
Նաիրա Հայրումյան
Հինգշաբթի, 05 Դեկտեմբերի 2013,
V

Հայաստանում Իրանի դեսպան Ռեիսին երեկ հայտարարել է, որ ողջունում է Հայաստանի ու Ռուսաստանի էներգետիկ համագործակցությունը, սակայն Իրանը կարող էր Հայաստանին մատակարարել էժան եւ անհրաժեշտ քանակի գազ: Այս հայտարարությանն անմիջապես արձագանքել էր ՀՀ էներգետիկայի նախարար Արմեն Մովսիսյանը, հայտարարելով, թե իբր Իրանը առաջարկում է ավելի թանկ գազ, քան ռուսականն է, հերթական անգամ ստելով հանրությանը:
Դեկտեմբերի 2-ին Հայաստանը կորցրեց էներգետիկ անկախության վերջին 20 տոկոսը եւ էներգետիկ համագործակցություն ծավալելու վերջին հնարավորությունները: Հայաստանը կորցրել է ինքնուրույն գազ գնելու հնարավորությունը:
Ներկայում այդ հարցերը լուծելու է Գազպրոմը, իսկ այն դժվար թե գազ գնի Իրանից: Թեեւ, չի բացառվում, որ հիմա գնում է եւ թանկ վերավաճառում հայերին:

Without going further Here is the real news inteview.

Tehran ready to boost gas supplies to Armenia, envoy says

December 4, 2013 - 18:27 AMT
PanARMENIAN.Net - Tehran is ready to significantly increase the current modest volume of its natural gas supplies to neighboring Armenia, the Iranian envoy said, according to RFE/FL Armenian service.
“Iran can meet Armenia’s gas demand yet that depends on a deal between the two countries,” Mohammad Raiesi told a news conference on Tuesday, December 4. “It also requires relevant infrastructures. So the outcome depends on the Armenian authorities.”
Armenia began importing Iranian gas following the completion in late 2008 of a pipeline connecting the two countries. According to Armenian government data, Iranian gas deliveries totaled roughly 500 million cubic meters last year, compared with almost 2 billion cubic meters supplied by Russia’s Gazprom. The Iranian gas is mainly used for generating electricity exported to the Islamic Republic.
Some critics of the Armenian government have accused it of deliberately failing to use the pipeline to ease Armenia’s heavy dependence on Russian energy resources. They say that greater gas imports from Iran would have strengthened Yerevan’s hand in its dealings with Moscow.
Energy Minister Armen Movsisyan repeatedly said earlier this year that the import volumes remain modest because the Iranian gas price is higher than the one set by Gazprom. Raiesi, publicly denied these claims in June, however.
The Iranian ambassador declined to specify the exact gas tariff for Armenia, noting that Iran exports gas at international market prices.
A rise in Iranian gas supplies became even more unlikely after the government sold its remaining 20 percent share in Armenia’s gas distribution network to Gazprom on Monday. The $155 million deal was formalized in Yerevan during Russian President Vladimir Putin’s official visit.
Raiesi insisted that the deal will not hamper further development of Armenian-Iranian energy cooperation. He said it does not run counter to close ties between the Armenian and Russian energy sectors.
Movsisyan and Iranian Energy Minister Hamid Chitchian met twice, in Tehran and Yerevan, last month in the space of two weeks. Official Iranian and Armenian
sources reported few details of their talks.


Here is another article from www.enerjienergy.com. This article is published in 2012. In 2013 prices actually rose even higher.

Ill give only the part that concerns us.

Turkey currently buys a cubic meter of Azeri gas for $330 and pays Russia $400 for the same amount. However, Iran sells its gas to Turkey for $505 for each cubic meter, which increases Turkey’s natural gas bill by an extra $800 million annually. The price of a cubic meter of natural gas is sold for $400 in international markets.

Turkey wants Iran to bring the price down to international levels. A similar situation arose between Turkey and Russia in the past; however, it ended when Turkey traded an agreement allowing the Russian South Stream pipeline to pass through Turkish territorial waters for a price discount. As a result, the price Turkey pays to Russia was reduced to $400.


Now here is Armenian offial's inteview


Energy Minister: Armenia will save $800 million on Russian gas in 5 years



December 04, 2013 | 18:18
YEREVAN. – Armenia will save $800 million at the expense the elimination of export duties on Russian gas during the next five years, Energy Minister Armen Movsisyan said.

“Gazprom has repeatedly stated that the Russian gas price should be increased, including for Armenia. In 2011, we managed to negotiate with the Russian side for Armenia to continue getting gas for $180 per thousand cubic meters before the talks are over,” Movsisyan said in response to opposition MP Aram Manukyan.

As a result of the state visit to Armenia by Russian President Vladimir Putin, the sides agreed on the formation of gas price for five years as well as management of the accumulated debts. Since 2011, the price difference between the old 180 dollars and the actual price, which Armenia had to pay, reached $300 million.

“According to our arrangement, we will pay half of the debt, and another half will be paid by Russia,” the Minister added.

According to him, in total from 2011 to 2018, the financial burden on the Russian side at the expense of discounts and canceled fees will make about $1.1 billion.

“We decided to pay $155 million out of this amounti n the form of 20 percent of ArmRusGasprom shares,” he concluded.

Gazprom owned 80% of ArmRusGasprom shares, while the rest twenty belonged to the Armenian government. As a result of Putin’s visit, an agreement was reached to transfer 20% to Gazprom.


So Naira Hayrumian writes this article, calling it "Iran's Slap On The Face Of Armenia", lies about Iran's offer as "it could be cheaper than Russia's, then goe into usual Armenia bashing and wrongfull information in order to fool us.
From this articles and any information you guys can check shows that Iran sells it's natural gas no less than $500 for 1000 QM. India had problems with Iran too about the price and Iran refused to lower it.
So what makes this idiots to come up with this marazm, you figure.
If Iran was ready, why didn't sell gas lower than $189 before?
Russia is going to sell gas to us much cheaper than Azerbaijan to brother turkey. What else we want? Should our citizens freeze like in 92-94 for us to think straight? Apparently this does not seat well for some cyrcles.

I will follow about Previos article about that wh ore, Naira.

Given that Turk and Azeri blockade and other damaging activities are intended to create a disastrous economic situation in Armenia and as a result; emigration, civil unrest, revolution etc.
And taking into account that Russia bought/occupied all our major economy sectors, banned association with EU, the gas deal with Iran, creates obstacles on Vorotan hydro station sales to USA and as opposed to Iran doesn't support Iran-Armenia railway construction … etc.

One even may conclude that Russia using its dominant economic position in Armenia is doing all the rest the Turkish coalition can’t do for further deteriorating Armenia's economic situation.

After the total economic collapse probably Russia will be satisfied with a small part of Armenia to locate its military bases and the rest (as they probably planned with their partners; Turkey and Azeri) will go to ….

It seems you are confusing issues.
If the post by Hakob is accurate than in financial terms is not furthering the deterioration of Armenia's economy but rather offering Armenia by far the best deal on gas & weapons as well as a host of ther much needed things.
Now if you are referring to the Russian takeover of Armenia's economy then I agree. We are in a very bad position. Our govt is walking an unenviable tightrope. On this I'm not sure what to do. However, as stated so many times before, the USA/euro sucker punch is not the answer. Their intentions in are like terminal cancer. Once their in the door there is no getting rid of it. Maybe we gotta chance getting rid of slava down the rode. Our president is walking an incredibly tough tight rope.
Iran ain't offering any deals at all. Russia has the best financial offer.
Yes they want us to become their state, county, vessel. And are saying you get home prices. And yes they are thugs. And yes they want to dictate our foreign policy to their liking and our detriment. This is not lost by those who are backing our president.
It's a hell of a tight rope he's walking. Cancer USA /euro or thug Russia or how bout that wonderful price offered by Iran?
I & others have stated our case. Which do you pick? Lovely choices aren't they.
Artashes

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Only Rasputin could have come up with such an idea.

The government having miserably failed in running the economy due to its corruption and incompetence,
with growing poverty levels has decided to “worry” about the people’s pension.

They are looking for ways to cream ( cream ???) off the income of a small proportion of the population who could be classified as “better off”.
The money to be invested in foreign countries.

The people and the oppositions are right to oppose this stupid idea.

For a starters the subject was not debated properly in the parliament.

Contributory pension schemes are ( should be) voluntary and not compulsory.

Taking money from people’s salary against their will is unconstitutional.

Private (non governmental) pension plans are a luxury afforded by rich countries
meaning they supplement an already subsistence state pension and never are the primary pension.

Contributory pension plans have a horrible history of failure to deliver.

They depend on the plan manager(s) to perform, traded successfully.
Most of the plans are tied to the stock markets.
Stock markets are not wealth generating activity but a zero sum game, same as gambling,
meaning for every winner there is a looser.
Therefore by definition the plan cannot guarantee a promised return.

They also depend when you retire, luck.
If you are lucky and retire when the markets are buoyant your return will be better than another
who retires or forced into early retirement coinciding with a bear market.

There is a huge suspicion and a lack of trust in the government due to its incompetence and corruption.
These plans will last typically for 30-40 years.
Try and tell me who will be held responsible if pension returns are inadequate.

LOL
There is no Rasputins here, But social security tax, federal tax, state tax, unemployment tax, medicare tax, property tax, utility tax, environmental tax, sales tax, school tax, inheritence tax and many more. More than 50% of ones incme goes into taxes here. They are all missmanaged, stolen, robbed horribly. Given as exorbitant salaries or financial aid to others. Paid in government contracts to insiders. Pork barrels. We see only small fraction of it as returns.
The only diffrence is they are doing it smooth and eloquently in west. But the stick is the same. It's all robbery.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

It seems you are confusing issues.
If the post by Hakob is accurate than in financial terms is not furthering the deterioration of Armenia's economy but rather offering Armenia by far the best deal on gas & weapons as well as a host of ther much needed things.
Now if you are referring to the Russian takeover of Armenia's economy then I agree. We are in a very bad position. Our govt is walking an unenviable tightrope. On this I'm not sure what to do. However, as stated so many times before, the USA/euro sucker punch is not the answer. Their intentions in are like terminal cancer. Once their in the door there is no getting rid of it. Maybe we gotta chance getting rid of slava down the rode. Our president is walking an incredibly tough tight rope.
Iran ain't offering any deals at all. Russia has the best financial offer.
Yes they want us to become their state, county, vessel. And are saying you get home prices. And yes they are thugs. And yes they want to dictate our foreign policy to their liking and our detriment. This is not lost by those who are backing our president.
It's a hell of a tight rope he's walking. Cancer USA /euro or thug Russia or how bout that wonderful price offered by Iran?
I & others have stated our case. Which do you pick? Lovely choices aren't they.
Artashes

Given that Turk and Azeri blockade and other damaging activities are intended to create a disastrous economic situation in Armenia and as a result; emigration, civil unrest, revolution etc.
And taking into account that Russia bought/occupied all our major economy sectors, banned association with EU, the gas deal with Iran, creates obstacles on Vorotan hydro station sales to USA and as opposed to Iran doesn't support Iran-Armenia railway construction … etc.

One even may conclude that Russia using its dominant economic position in Armenia is doing all the rest the Turkish coalition can’t do for further deteriorating Armenia's economic situation.

After the total economic collapse probably Russia will be satisfied with a small part of Armenia to locate its military bases and the rest (as they probably planned with their partners; Turkey and Azeri) will go to ….

Իրանական գազը Հայաստանին կարող է ավելի էժան էլ վաճառվել, քան ռուսականը. քննարկման խնդիր է
06/12/13

http://www.yerkirmedia.am/?act=news&lan=hy&id=17637

tert.am - Հայաստանում Իրանի Իսլամական Հանրապետության դեսպան Մուհամադ Ռաիսին այսօր կայացած մամուլի ասուլիսին հայտարարեց, որ Իրանից Հայաստան կանխիկով գազ մատակարարելու մասին դեռ խոսք չկա, իսկ եթե լինի, ապա գինը կախված կլինի պայմանավորվածությունից: Նրա խոսքով՝ դեռ պարզ չէ, որ իրանական գազն ավելի թանկ գնով կվաճառվի Հայաստանին, քան ռուսականը։
"Մենք Հայաստանի հետ ունենք շատ լավ հարաբերություններ, մի քանի տարի է` գործում է "Գազ` էլեկտրաէներգիայի դիմաց" պայմանագիրը: Իրանի էներգետիկայի նախկին նախարարը Հայաստանի էներգետիկայի նախարարին ասել է, որ տարիներ առաջ ձեռք բերած համաձայնությանը մենք հավատարիմ ենք, թեև գների փոփոխություն է եղել, բայց Իրանը հավատարիմ է իր պայմանավորվածությունը",- ասաց դեսպանը:
Հարցին, թե, այնուամենայնիվ, եթե Իրանը Հայաստանին գազ մատակարարի գումարով, ապա որքա՞ն կարժենա այդ գազը, նա պատասխանեց, որ օրինակ՝ Թուրքիային և այլ երկրներին Իրանը գազը վաճառում է գործող միջազգային գներով, սակայն որոշ բարեկամ երկրների համար հնարավոր է զեղչեր լինեն:
"Դեռ պարզ չէ, որ այդ գինն ավելի թանկ կլինի Ռուսաստանի գազից: Պետք է նստել և քննարկել",- ասաց նա՝ հավելելով, որ եթե իրենք ամբողջությամբ կարողանան բավարարել Հայաստանի գազի սպառումը, անհրաժեշտ կլինի նոր ենթակառուցվածքներ ստեղծել:

Իսկ "ՀայՌուսգազարդի" Հայաստանի մասնաբաժինը վաճառելու մասին դեսպանը նշեց, որ Հայաստանն անկախ երկիր է, ինքն է որոշում, թե իր գազամուղն ում վաճառի:

Անդրադառնալով Մաքսային միությանը Իրանի դիրքորոշմանը՝ դեսպանն ասաց, որ դեռևս ամբողջովին ներկայացված չէ, թե դա իրենից ինչ է ներկայացնում Մաքսային միությունը, և երբ իրենք դրա մասին տեղեկություններ ունենան, կուսումնասիրեն այն:

Ինչ վերաբերում է ՄՄ-ին անդամակցելուց հետո հայ-իրանական հարաբերություններին, նա ընդգծեց. "Մենք լավ հարաբերություններ ունենք Ռուսաստանի հետ, կրկնակի երախտապարտ ենք ՀՀ կառավարությանը: Իրանը, հաշվի առնելով սերտ հարաբերությունները, որ ունի Հայաստանի հետ, մշտապես ցանկանում է, որ Հայաստանը առաջընթաց ունենա, Հայաստանի կայունությունն ու անվտանգությունը նաև Իրանի անվտանգությունն է, Իրանը Հայաստանի և Ռուսաստանի միջև սեպ խրելու կարիք չունի":

Read the article above about the gas prices, already posted here.

[londontsi]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

LOL
There is no Rasputins here, But social security tax, federal tax, state tax, unemployment tax, medicare tax, property tax, utility tax, environmental tax, sales tax, school tax, inheritence tax and many more. More than 50% of ones incme goes into taxes here. They are all missmanaged, stolen, robbed horribly. Given as exorbitant salaries or financial aid to others. Paid in government contracts to insiders. Pork barrels. We see only small fraction of it as returns.
The only diffrence is they are doing it smooth and eloquently in west. But the stick is the same. It's all robbery.

Your argument is falling into the same trap that the government’s policies are falling into.

The governments approach is flawed because it is pretending, copying, trying to emulate economically advanced countries that Armenia is not.
Its compounded by unsustainable structural problems of the society, in the economy .... in some ways it is not surprising since these problems have been
created by themselves in order to feed their co.ckroach like appetite.

.

[Artashes]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Read the article above about the gas prices, already posted here.

Unfortunately I cannot read or even speak my own language.
Are you saying that the info that Hakob posted that I referred to is different than the info Vrej posted that you have referred to? Is my reference not accurate?
Artashes

[Vrej1915]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Iran Again Questions Armenian Gas Claims


Sargis Harutyunyan
Հրապարակված է՝ 06.12.2013

A senior Iranian diplomat on Friday again called into question the Armenian government’s claims that Armenia buys the bulk of its natural gas from Russia because it is much cheaper than Iranian gas.

The official price of Russian gas for Armenia was set at almost $190 per thousand cubic meters recently after President Serzh Sarkisian unexpectedly decided to make his country part of a Russian-led customs union. The Sarkisian administration says that this concessional tariff is one of the factors that necessitated its foreign policy U-turn.

Energy and Natural Resources Minister Armen Movsisian on Thursday again dismissed suggestions that Armenia could have imported cheap gas from neighboring Iran. Movsisian claimed that the price of the gas currently “offered” by the Iranian side exceeds $400 per thousand cubic meters.

Mohammad Reisi, the Iranian ambassador in Yerevan, appeared to deny this as he held his second news conference in four days. Asked whether Iranian gas is indeed more expensive than the gas supplied by Russia’s Gazprom conglomerate, he said, “One needs to negotiate first, and only during the signing of a supply contract would it be clear which gas is more expensive.”

“Having said that, a country may sell gas to another country for $400 but be willing to charge a third country only $100. That depends on agreements between them,” Reisi stressed, hinting that Iran might have offered Armenia such a discount.

Armenia -- A pipeline transporting natural gas from Iran.
Armenia -- A pipeline transporting natural gas from Iran.
The envoy insisted in that regard that the Armenian government has never sought to officially negotiate with Tehran over more large-scale gas supplies. He said earlier this week that the Iranian government stands ready to significantly increase the current supply volumes.

Armenia began importing Iranian gas following the construction in late 2008 of a pipeline connecting the two countries. According to Armenian government data, Iranian gas deliveries totaled roughly 500 million cubic meters last year, compared with almost 2 billion cubic meters purchased from Gazprom.

The Iranian gas is swapped for electricity generated at a thermal power plant in Yerevan and exported to the Islamic Republic. In a report released last month, the Armenian customs service put the monetary value of that gas at around $182 million per thousand cubic meters, meaning that it is technically cheaper than the Russian gas. The report thus raised more questions about the credibility of Movsisian’s claims.

The pipeline from Iran was supposed to ease Armenia’s heavy dependence on Russia for energy resources. Critics have for years accused the authorities in Yerevan of failing to make use of the alternative source of gas which few other former Soviet republics dependent on Russia have. The Iranian ambassador’s statements will give them more ammunition to attack the government.

“I think it is obvious to everyone that the Armenian authorities need the Russian government’s permission to negotiate with Iran on gas supplies. They don’t have that permission,” said Hayk Gevorgian, a senior economics writer for the pro-opposition daily “Haykakan Zhamanak.”

Analysts believe that greater Iranian gas imports are also hampered by the fact that Armenia’s gas distribution network is owned by Gazprom. The Sarkisian government raised the Russian giant’s share in the network from 80 percent to 100 percent in a controversial deal that was signed during Russian President Vladimir Putin’s visit to the country on Monday.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Your argument is falling into the same trap that the government’s policies are falling into.

The governments approach is flawed because it is pretending, copying, trying to emulate economically advanced countries that Armenia is not.
Its compounded by unsustainable structural problems of the society, in the economy .... in some ways it is not surprising since these problems have been
created by themselves in order to feed their co.ckroach like appetite.

.

Londontsi
Yes you are right. Government is copying something that has been probably pushed by euro programmes. No wonder every country, like bulgaria or ruminia or others have been encouraged by europe or IMF and have implemented such plans. Also no wonder that managing companies for Armenia are western ones.
That is why I say that this move is more geared in conforming to western economic plans and encouraged by them also.
If you ask me, it is a sham too, just like any existing western plan. Next thing you know ever more easier credits will be extended (when and if Armenian's incomes confirm to a certain level) and just like us, people will pay what they earn for taxes and borrow to live (and stay dependent to credit existence).
One has to see that more than government, some groups in Armenia are trying to copy, emulate west and pretend by introducing movements for gey rights or gender equalities, or universal human rights (those against any and all Armenian national identity values), which are more dangerous and nobody talks about.
So copying or emulating or pretending in Armenia has got evolved a bit.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I'd like to add that what everybody agrees about in Armenia is the run out corruption.
That has to be fought against.
So even if any plan, like pention plan would be implemented even by angels in government, people would not thrust them. Especially if parasites like lfic or samvel or surik are part of that government.
I agree about all you guys say about corruption. There has to be hard fight against it.
It comes to my attention that unfortunetly the opposition is not really interested in it. Even the fractions who oppose in assembly. Their conduct is more of a fight for share then for thruth. Look at them. BHK, Dashnags, Orinats ergir, Jarangutyun, HHK... Does anyone of them look less corrupt to you?
My frastration comes from looking at opposition's conduct on streets.
Look at their demonstrations in front of Pak shuga. It is close to the center and easy to publicise right?
What about all other cases in all over Armenia?
My frustration also comes from seing opposition manipulate and distort facts for easy glamour and approval from their foreign sponsors, rather than down to earth grass roots hard work. In their conduct they are no less corrupt than government as they behave as if public is brainless idiots and anything said will go down as easy as they fabricate them. They are as cynical towards Armenian population as lfiks or samos.
There must be a reason why only 400 people max came in support of anti russian activists(those were rather the activists themselfs). People don't thrust them. It's like better 10 known lfiks then 1 unknown activist.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

One of the very few instances when opposition came honest to streets was the no 150 dram movement. And you see they won. Even if temporary. Those also were not usual oppositions on street, but actors, singers and ordinary people. People who went the way and put their time and money by transporting passengers for free.
What can you do against those?
That is what i call grass roots opposition.
Not like those idiots that film themselfs supposedly in fight with police for people's rights (arguing and pushing with police chief in front of camers and then quickly posting those heroics) or invent unbielivable lies and facts one after another in hopes of getting cheap dividents.
I'd say those are a match for government. But those are not the ones for Armenia.

[Mher]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

One of the very few instances when opposition came honest to streets was the no 150 dram movement. And you see they won. Even if temporary. Those also were not usual oppositions on street, but actors, singers and ordinary people. People who went the way and put their time and money by transporting passengers for free.
What can you do against those?
That is what i call grass roots opposition.
Not like those idiots that film themselfs supposedly in fight with police for people's rights (arguing and pushing with police chief in front of camers and then quickly posting those heroics) or invent unbielivable lies and facts one after another in hopes of getting cheap dividents.
I'd say those are a match for government. But those are not the ones for Armenia.

Man I don't know how many times, if ever, you've been to Armenia, if you live there or how old you are, but those people that tape themselves are a big reason why the country has changed so much. Up until 2006-07 police use to regularly stop people, specially tourists, but all people in general, and demand money. When I was there in 2005 we got stopped every few kilometers because we had an Iranian license plate.

People who would tape themselves, put on youtube in its early days, and embarrass these people were a big reason that's no longer a problem in Armenia. So take it easy before you dismiss all of them.

Now I'm not advocating for the idiots who try to provoke reactions from cops, but don't dismiss people who are a big reason for the dramatic improvements in the country