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Iranian-Armenian relations

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  • UrMistake
    replied
    Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    Originally posted by Persopolis View Post
    @ Artsakh

    Most Armenian historians state that that Iran has been Armenia's "savior," to use your words; they say you surrendered to many invasions, and without Iran to push out hostile invaders, you would all be dead. Next time Armenia gets invaded, I'll wrap a lump of coal in your printed comments and throw it over the border so you can you stay warm.



    “Throughout the expanse of Armenian history only Iran consistently has prevented the complete demise of the Armenian people, and for that we are indebted beyond words.”

    Hovhannes Karapetyan (aka Hovhannes Shiraz) Armenian Literary Figure & Poet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hovhannes_Shiraz

    “ Prior to the third century A.D., Iran had more influence on Armenia's culture than any of its other neighbours.”

    [Prof. George A. Bournoutian, Columbia Univ., A History of the Armenian People Volume II.]

    “One of the intangible benefits of Armenian economic power in Iran was the transformation of the Armenian self-image. After centuries of conquest by Muslim invaders, Armenians were granted equal and at times even greater privileges than Muslims.”

    [Prof. George A. Bournoutian, Columbia Univ., A History of the Armenian People Volume II.]

    “In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks drove thousands of Armenians to Iranian Azerbaijan, where some were sold as slaves.”

    [Prof. George A. Bournoutian, Columbia Univ., A History of the Armenian People Volume II.]

    “The emergence of the Safavids and the rise of Shi'ism in eastern Anatolia were major threats to the Ottomans, whose claim to the caliphate and the leadership of the Muslim world was challenged by the new Iranian dynasty. … The protracted Ottoman-Safavid war and the resulting forced migrations depopulated parts of historic Armenia, and the Kurdish settlement changed its social and ethnic balance. … By 1736 a new ruler, Nader Shah (1736-1747) and a new dynasty, the Afshars, had restored order in Iran, had convinced the Russians to withdraw, and had pushed the Ottomans back to the boundaries of 1639.”

    [Prof. George A. Bournoutian, Columbia Univ., A History of the Armenian People Volume II.]





    Write to Saddam's generals who were backed by U.S. & European weapons, intelligence, and WMDs (including chemical and nerve agents), and query how Iranians surrendered. Ask the Hazaras (the children of Ghengis Khan now living in Afghanistan) how we surrendered; ask the USSR's generals how Persians surrendered in Afghanistan at the height of Russian military power. When you learn about Shia Islam voluntarily displacing the Islam of the invaders you will understand better what Iran did and why we did it. The fewer Armenians like you there are, the bigger Armenia will be.
    In wich part you see the sentence With out Iran Armenia would not be ?
    Dont you think too big for your self ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Persopolis
    replied
    Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    Originally posted by Artsakh View Post
    After all, he comes from a nation of 70 millions who couldn't even create an alphabet for themselves.
    Do you think lying increases your credibility?

    The Persian language is written with a number of different scripts, including Old Persian (a type of Cuneiform), Pahlavi, and Avestan (among others); if you consider all Iranian languages, you will see the list is even bigger (but let's keep it simple for now). After the Islamic displacement of the Persian Sassanid Empire in 642 CE, the Perso-Arabic alphabet was employed for religious purposes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perso-Arabic_script Of course Arabic, is almost entirely based off of the Persian Avestan script - which made it easy to implement in Persia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan_alphabet I will write it twice: The Arabic alphabet is based on the Persian alphabet.

    Not only did we create our own alphabet - we created alphabets that other people still use. Let me know if I can donate some money so you can finish elementary school and have something to hang on your wall.

    * 4,800 years ago we pioneered surgery and invented special prosthetics. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/1...ry=archaeology.

    * 5,200 years ago we invented the same principles of animation used today. http://www.animationmagazine.net/fea...vered-in-iran/
    (It's a bowl with images of an antelope that sat on a rotating system - when you spun the bowl, the antelope jumped towards the tree.)

    ... you really don't know much about Iranian contributions to world civilization & how we value scholarship and learning.
    Last edited by Persopolis; 05-17-2011, 06:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eddo211
    replied
    Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    Originally posted by Persopolis View Post
    I-------------------------------
    Either you want to be in the camp of....

    Or, you want to be in the camp of.....
    So is that how you see everything in life, A or B, either or, black and white. Your logic is flawed. Now that is the real shame.

    You wanna know who I support......both those links you provided are my brothers.

    You wanna know who else I support?......my patriotic Iranian brothers in Iran and abroad.

    Armenian/Iran century old relations have always been mutual in benefit. Without Armenia as an Ally during critical times, today’s Iran would not exist as it is. This goes back to the battles against the Seljuks and way beyond the Roman times. Right now Iran is surrounded by enemies and countries hosting a platform for these enemies. The only country Iran can trust now is Armenia.
    Last edited by Eddo211; 05-18-2011, 01:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • bell-the-cat
    replied
    Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    Originally posted by Persopolis View Post
    [Prof. George A. Bournoutian, Columbia Univ., A History of the Armenian People Volume II.]
    But Persepolis, this forum's resident horde of inbreds think that Bournoutian is worse than the anti-Christ.

    Well, really they think that anyone who knows anything at all about the actual history of Armenia is worse than the anti-Christ.
    Last edited by bell-the-cat; 05-17-2011, 04:51 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Persopolis
    replied
    Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    @ Artsakh

    Most Armenian historians state that that Iran has been Armenia's "savior," to use your words; they say you surrendered to many invasions, and without Iran to push out hostile invaders, you would all be dead. Next time Armenia gets invaded, I'll wrap a lump of coal in your printed comments and throw it over the border so you can you stay warm.

    Originally posted by Artsakh View Post
    ... But then again, he's our "saviour," he's here to save the Armenians who don't know any better.....HAHAHAHAHAHA... They are a weasal nation with no honor, who surrenedered to the Arabs and embraced their religion at the swords point.
    “Throughout the expanse of Armenian history only Iran consistently has prevented the complete demise of the Armenian people, and for that we are indebted beyond words.”

    Hovhannes Karapetyan (aka Hovhannes Shiraz) Armenian Literary Figure & Poet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hovhannes_Shiraz

    “ Prior to the third century A.D., Iran had more influence on Armenia's culture than any of its other neighbours.”

    [Prof. George A. Bournoutian, Columbia Univ., A History of the Armenian People Volume II.]

    “One of the intangible benefits of Armenian economic power in Iran was the transformation of the Armenian self-image. After centuries of conquest by Muslim invaders, Armenians were granted equal and at times even greater privileges than Muslims.”

    [Prof. George A. Bournoutian, Columbia Univ., A History of the Armenian People Volume II.]

    “In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks drove thousands of Armenians to Iranian Azerbaijan, where some were sold as slaves.”

    [Prof. George A. Bournoutian, Columbia Univ., A History of the Armenian People Volume II.]

    “The emergence of the Safavids and the rise of Shi'ism in eastern Anatolia were major threats to the Ottomans, whose claim to the caliphate and the leadership of the Muslim world was challenged by the new Iranian dynasty. … The protracted Ottoman-Safavid war and the resulting forced migrations depopulated parts of historic Armenia, and the Kurdish settlement changed its social and ethnic balance. … By 1736 a new ruler, Nader Shah (1736-1747) and a new dynasty, the Afshars, had restored order in Iran, had convinced the Russians to withdraw, and had pushed the Ottomans back to the boundaries of 1639.”

    [Prof. George A. Bournoutian, Columbia Univ., A History of the Armenian People Volume II.]



    Originally posted by Artsakh View Post
    ... They are a weasal nation with no honor, who surrenedered to the Arabs ...
    Write to Saddam's generals who were backed by U.S. & European weapons, intelligence, and WMDs (including chemical and nerve agents), and query how Iranians surrendered. Ask the Hazaras (the children of Ghengis Khan now living in Afghanistan) how we surrendered; ask the USSR's generals how Persians surrendered in Afghanistan at the height of Russian military power. When you learn about Shia Islam voluntarily displacing the Islam of the invaders you will understand better what Iran did and why we did it. The fewer Armenians like you there are, the bigger Armenia will be.
    Last edited by Persopolis; 05-17-2011, 06:10 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • retro
    replied
    Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
    "Born on Russia's territory"! Has he got no idea about when Russia was founded and when Zoroastrianism started? Seems people may be more right in comparing Putin to Stalin than they realise. Does Putin also have a Stalinesque desire to invent fantasy history for his political ideology? Will he be penning his own vanity monographs on history / anthropology / linguistics / science / etc., just like Stalin did? Maybe he already does.
    Whilst Putin is clearly playing up Russia's Indo-Iranic associations for poltical reasons and Zoroastrianism has Western Asian origins.

    What maybe confusing Putin is the Indo-Iranic steppe trans-Urals bronze age cultures, such as the Scytho-Sarmatian. From which people like the Alans and Slavs are in no small part where derived. In ancient times a lot of these weird Scytho Euro-Mongoloid, steppe types where Indo-Europeans and people like the Kazakh where not always Turkic.

    Around 60% of Tajiks are R1a1 and seemingly they are related to the Indo-Aryans in Northern India. An Indo-Iranic, homeland in the Urals isn't as far fetched a idea as it might as first seem due to the archeology evidence.

    As Afanasevo culture formed the eastern linguistic periphery of the Indo-European continuum of languages whose centre of expansion lay much farther to the west, north of the Black and Caspian seas.

    I don't necessarily agree with this guys conclusions. However he does make a few intresting points.

    The Origins of R1a1 Clade and Indo-European

    An Out of India theory for the Indo-European languages arose in the 19th Century, but cold water was quickly poured on it, as archeology and linguistics does not support it in the slightest. Recently however, Out of India nuts, most of whom, other than the Indian archeologist Lal, are Indian nationalist and Hindutva ideologues, have focused on genetics.

    In particular, they have focused on the R1a1 marker. Recent studies, in particular this paper, have suggested an Indian origin for R1a1. It is true that R1a1 is a marker for Indo-European. However, the time depth for the origin of R1a1 is about 18,000 years. It originated in an area bounded by southern Siberia near Omsk in the north and southern Pakistan in the south. This area includes Pakistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan and Southern Russia. It may also include northern India.

    The linked paper states that R1a1 arose in the Central Asian steppes and South Asia 18,000 YBP. That is far earlier than the earliest time depth for Indo-European, which is ~8,000 years old and has its homeland probably in Anatolia, certainly not in India.

    R1a1 arose in the Central-South Asian region long ago. At some point, some of them moved out to the region of Southern Russia where the Kurgan Culture took hold. There was probably a back movement of these folks south to Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Stans and India in the form of Indo-Aryan speakers about 3,500 years ago.

    The homeland of the Indo-Aryan speakers is in far northwest Kazakhstan and neighboring regions of Russia near the far southeast end of the Urals and is dated to 4,500-5,000 YBP.

    It is probably from this region that the R1a1 found in the Slavic regions originated.

    The new genetic evidence is completely in accord for southern Russian homeland for IE and adds no weight whatsoever to the Out of India theory, since the clade originated far before I-E even existed in the pre-IE era.

    References

    Mirabal et al. 2009. “Y-Chromosome distribution within the geolinguistic landscape of northwestern Russia”, European Journal of Human Genetics 17: 1260–1273

    http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2...indo-european/

    Leave a comment:


  • Artsakh
    replied
    Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    Originally posted by HermanGerman View Post
    The admins of this forum should react and not allow him to spread hate against Armenians in an Armanian forum....

    Is it not a violation of the forum rules to make such statements and lies about our people in general ?
    Please react and do something for god's sake....
    INDEED!!!!!
    IF I WERE TO MAKE AN "ANTI-SEMITIC" COMMENT, I WOULD GET BANNED IN A NANO SECOND. HELL, WE'RE EVEN PREVENTED FROM USING THE WORD j**E**W.

    This forum is a place for concerned Armenians to post news, analyse, ask questions and talk about Armenian related matters in a constructive manner in an "ENJOYABLE ATMOSPHERE".

    IT SHOULD NOT SERVE AS A PLATFORM FOR ANTI-ARMENIAN PROPOGANDA AND HATE!!!! there's plenty of turkish forums where they can go and join in there for doing that, where, by the way, no form of anti-turkish talk would be tolerated.

    It's interesting, who is this forum run by any ways? When you moderators stand idle in such instances, these sons of wh*res are encouraged and act the way they do.

    RESTORE SOME ORDER
    Last edited by Artsakh; 05-17-2011, 03:12 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Artsakh
    replied
    Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    Originally posted by Tigranakert View Post
    Hahaha, I can not stop laughing. Persepolis, a time ago I thought you had at least some knowledge in the affairs you were talking about. But posting this nonsense, and even believing what he says, even though most of the figures he represents show other things than he speaks about, is just disgraceful.
    why are you even responding, you should know better than to argue with idiots. He's just looking for attention. But then again, he's our "saviour," he's here to save the Armenians who don't know any better.....HAHAHAHAHAHA.............

    Forget this delusional pyscho.

    After all, he comes from a nation of 70 millions who couldn't even create an alphabet for themselves. They are a weasal nation with no honor, who surrenedered to the Arabs and embraced their religion at the swords point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tigranakert
    replied
    Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    I can't believe you are asking for a second walloping - Are you guys masochists?
    I never denied that Russia has a problem of a declining population, don't you get it? I argued the fact of the generalizations and pessimistic scenario you are wanting to shed, together with the quoting of a biased report in which facts are twisted ("Caspian Report"). It is hard to understand this? Seriously, you are mentally sick.

    When a nation will experience a "dramatic population decrease" -- the total value of goods and services (GDP) will also decrease. Less people in the work force = less production for many sectors of the Russian economy and less domestic purchases of goods and services. Just hit yourself in the head with a hammer if you don't understand this.
    Haha, if the world was as easy as you want to point, that one thing leads to another, you could be true, but this is not the case. First of all, again, what you are pointing is the worst-case scenario, in which the population will decline, but this will not lead to the things you are pointing too. Population size is not the only factor that affects GDP you dumbass, if Russia is able to modernize it's economy (Skolkovo project et al.), this will counter the decline in population. Furthermore, Russia is investing huge sums and time to attract immigrants and raise the birth rate among Russians. There are thousands of other factors playing a role here. What you are saying is just clearcut bullxxxx.

    When a nation will experience a "dramatic population decrease" -- it has less people for its armed forces. Just hit yourself in the head with a hammer if you don't understand this. Do you know why Cuba's military is smaller than China's? Less people.
    Hahahaha, dude your stupidity is just so funny. First of all, the "dramatic population decrease" the way you point it, it's like Russia's population is going to fall from 140 million to 12 million in a few years. Again, there are thousands of factors in play here which I do not want to discuss.

    Furthermore, this will not have an impact on it's military might. If so, how can you explain that Russia wants to dramatically decrease the number of soldiers in it's army, to increase it's efficiency? If "population" was so important, than they would hire everyone who is capable of fighting right now. Again, this can be coped by improving, modernizing the army and raising it's efficiency. It's not as easy as you want to point, but you live in a total different world than ours.

    [QUOTE]When a nation will experience a "dramatic population decrease" -- and that decrease is among the Christian population -- it means that proportionally Russian Muslims become a larger share of the Russian population. Muslims do not have a birth rate problems in Russia -- that's an ethnic Russian (Christian) phenomenon. [/COLOR]

    I already spoke about your twisted "dramatic population decrease" logic. Every year more and more atheist Russians covert to Christianity. Everyone coming from a muslim country is counted as a muslim, but a big part have actually assimilated and don't even practice their religion, especially people from Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, etc. In time, Russia will define it's Russian identity more and more to the extent by which America brainwashes it's extremely diverse people to feel American.

    Putin called the problem of Russia's dramatically declining population, most acute problem of contemporary Russia.Focus on those 3 words: Most / Acute / Problem.
    I agree with him to a large extent, but it still doesn't justify your remarks. You must be blind or something. :

    Leave a comment:


  • Persopolis
    replied
    Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    Originally posted by Eddo211 View Post
    If you are Persian then you won't say that about Samad Agha......inshalah angoshtesh beghoreh to cheshet.
    Bebinam to aughondi?
    I am a follower of 'Khooroos-Ali' -- Samad: "Ab kir am to dahanet." (All in the spirit of Samad's comedy). Khandidi az oon film a? Mordam az khandeh ("angoshtesh beghoreh to cheshet").

    Khatami explains the basis of Persian religion. (In Persian - no subtitles: "We are all Zoroastrians in Iran from our deepest roots." )
    Former Iranian President Mohammad Khatami answers a question in regards to Islamic Republic of Iran's treatment of religious Minorities. This gathering was h...


    -------------------------------
    Either you want to be in the camp of a great man like Dr. Lucas (a man I knew personally BTW) whose flowers blossomed in the Persian garden from the synergy of academic cooperation with his Iranian compatriots ... (continued) ...



    Or, you want to be in the camp of these type of guys:
    ARMENIAN THUG LIFE - STREET LIFE - SOUTHERN CALI - LA AREA - CONTROLIN LOS ANGELES


    I don't defend every Armenian - nor is it wise to. Someone like Dr. Lucas, however, has my biggest respect (he was a VERY patriotic Iranian AND Armenian). Presently there is a mischief of faction within the Armenian community and a lack of leadership. And too much of an automatic defense of any clown simply because he calls himself "Armenian" and looks like he visited Vartan's gift shop. News is that the Armenian government is starting to expel those types and voiding their right to live in Armenia - I know of several instances where this has happened.

    Eddo: Frankly, some of the things I've written here should have been written by you.

    You know what the real shame is? That there are more Armenians on this site familiar with Rap Music Stars that don't know who people like Dr. Lucas were and have to learn it from a Persian -- though they are totally averse to learning anything. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDE8r4sYDpI

    (BTW someone email me to explain how to make web links smaller on here.)
    Last edited by Persopolis; 05-17-2011, 01:46 PM.

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