Iranian-Armenian relations

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Have you been reading what I've been writing since I got here? Some Iranians will read the content of posts like your prior ones and will not 'stab you in the back' but decide to fight you face-to-face. It's public knowledge that people will change their stance by the types of things that have flourished here; I pointed that out to you and the mods before; I doubt you will think it's cute when people's attitudes change; you cannot expect Iranians to automatically defend Armenians if they sense that they are the subjects of indignities by Armenians.

I think I did say in another post a while ago that the best thing this forum could do for Armenia would be to close itself down.

But the forum doesn't exist to do the best for Armenia (even though, ironically, those here who do the worst damage to Armenia's reputation seem to think it does).

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Have you been reading what I've been writing since I got here? Some Iranians will read the content of posts like your prior ones and will not 'stab you in the back' but decide to fight you face-to-face. It's public knowledge that people will change their stance by the types of things that have flourished here; I pointed that out to you and the mods before; I doubt you will think it's cute when people's attitudes change; you cannot expect Iranians to automatically defend Armenians if they sense that they are the subjects of indignities by Armenians. In other words, I want to state clearly that you have created risks were they did not exist and if Armenians want to stop attitudes like yours - it's up to them. If they don't -- that's fine too, but don't act surprised if you lose Iranian support; don't expect Iranians to accept half-a*sed excuses simply because you've made them. I'm not suggesting that your comments would be the sole cause - I am using them as an example of a broader attitude -- I am suggesting that if that type interchange becomes common; you can't rely on Iranian support.

Look, I have always supported Iranian-Armenian partnership -- I am not the one impeding it. I am only as a person looking out for Armenia's interests going to look at all our relations critically - I have no attachment to any other country. For example, examining if there's a true support from the Iranian people or if it mostly just comes from government policies meant to play the geopolitics of the region. These are all valid questions and important ones for us. I have always of course talked forcefully against Iranian (and any other country's) hooligans in our country, but always supported peaceful tourists of course. I also don't want mass immigration to Armenia, because I don't want to get our fragile demographics out of balance. And as you know, I vehemently hate the inclusion of Armenia into "Greater Iran" and other similar BS which has no grounding.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Maybe there were some elements within Iranian government or army that were sympathetic to Azeris - I will do more research on this.

Have you been reading what I've been writing since I got here? Some Iranians will read the content of posts like your prior ones and will not 'stab you in the back' but decide to fight you face-to-face. It's public knowledge that people will change their stance by the types of things that have flourished here; I pointed that out to you and the mods before; I doubt you will think it's cute when people's attitudes change; you cannot expect Iranians to automatically defend Armenians if they sense that they are the subjects of indignities by Armenians. In other words, I want to state clearly that you have created risks were they did not exist and if Armenians want to stop attitudes like yours - it's up to them. If they don't -- that's fine too, but don't act surprised if you lose Iranian support; don't expect Iranians to accept half-a*sed excuses simply because you've made them. I'm not suggesting that your comments would be the sole cause - I am using them as an example of a broader attitude -- I am suggesting that if that type interchange becomes common; you can't rely on Iranian support.

Let me explain it to you this way: Put up a website ridiculing Russians, and see if you lose the support of some Russians.

I don't know what's the fuss about Afghan mujaheddin fighting for Azerbaijan, this has been public knowledge for years, there's even a 20 page study on it online. The allegation that Iran helped Azerbaijan is new. I don't know who this Seyed Hassan Ameli is as even Google does not know much about him. Perhaps fanning the flames of Islamic solidarity? He is a cleric, based on the "Seyed" title... We're gonna have to wait and see. Maybe Persopolis has more info?

I haven't read the study on the Afghan fighters: it's important to know which Afghans they were (Tajikis? Hazaras? Pashtoons? Nuristanis? Turkmen?); what their motives were (money? orders from tribal commander? religious grounds? ). My suspicion is that it was likely a handful of mercenaries.

Regarding whether Iranians would help Azerbaijan - see me comment to Mos above. If attitudes like his are prevalent among the Armenian population, and the Iranian leadership & people catch wind of it, absolutely the risks are much higher. I'm not narrowly talking about solely Mos's comments - I'm using his comments to typify a certain broader mindset that would cause Iranians to reconsider their stance.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Voila, just as I expected.
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Ayatollah Ameli played up to Azeris, Armenian expert says
May 10, 2011 - 12:06 AMT

PanARMENIAN.Net - The statement by Iranian Ayatollah Seyed Hassan Ameli should be viewed as a show of respect put up for the benefit of Azerbaijanis, who, inspired by the perspective of starting an Islamic revolution in the country, are worried over any sort of Iranian-Armenian cooperation, an expert said.

As Hrant Melik-Shahnazaryan told a PanARMENIAN.Net reporter, Ayatollah Ameli decided to play up to Azerbaijanis to refute accusations of ‘betrayal of Islamic values’.

“During Karabakh war, Iran provided Armenia's food safety. No military cooperation was discussed at the time. However, last autumn Azerbaijan requested Iran for a pass-through for a quick march to Fizuli, Jebrail and Zangelan and was refused point-blank,” the expert stressed.

Recently, Iranian Ayatollah Seyed Hassan Ameli stated that Iran supplied weapons to Azeri troops who experienced armament shortage while fighting in battles for Shushi.

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/politics/news/69470/

Yeah, because I think we would have known if such help was given. That being said, we should be careful of these anti-Armenian elements within Iran.

[Federate]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Voila, just as I expected.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ayatollah Ameli played up to Azeris, Armenian expert says
May 10, 2011 - 12:06 AMT

PanARMENIAN.Net - The statement by Iranian Ayatollah Seyed Hassan Ameli should be viewed as a show of respect put up for the benefit of Azerbaijanis, who, inspired by the perspective of starting an Islamic revolution in the country, are worried over any sort of Iranian-Armenian cooperation, an expert said.

As Hrant Melik-Shahnazaryan told a PanARMENIAN.Net reporter, Ayatollah Ameli decided to play up to Azerbaijanis to refute accusations of ‘betrayal of Islamic values’.

“During Karabakh war, Iran provided Armenia's food safety. No military cooperation was discussed at the time. However, last autumn Azerbaijan requested Iran for a pass-through for a quick march to Fizuli, Jebrail and Zangelan and was refused point-blank,” the expert stressed.

Recently, Iranian Ayatollah Seyed Hassan Ameli stated that Iran supplied weapons to Azeri troops who experienced armament shortage while fighting in battles for Shushi.

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/politics/news/69470/

[Federate]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

I think this Seid Ameli is just anti-Armenian or pro-Azerbaijan. Look what I found when I Googled "Seid Ameli". He seems to have no position in the Iranian government, both past and present. So he might be pulling sh!t out of his ass in the hopes of Islamic solidarity.

IRANIAN CLERIC HOPES KARABAKH WILL BE CLEANED OF ARMENIANS

Lragir.am
28/04/10

In the northern city Ardebil of Iran, during Friday praying, the
representative of the Iranian religious council Seid Hasan Ameli made
an appeal to believers. He said that the Western policy of the last
20 years did not bring peace to the region but only made the existing
problems deeper. He mentioned that Iran is ready to mediate between
Armenia and Azerbaijan, the Azeris accepted but the Armenian refused
Iran's help.

Ameli said Armenians rely on the Americans and Europeans which is a
wrong path. The experience of Turkey and Azerbaijan is to be a lesson
that Western countries, in particular Israel, have always hit the
Muslims of the region from back.

He extended hope that the neighbors of Iran will refuse the patronage
of the U.S. and Israel and will go towards peace and friendship as well
as that Karabakh will be returned to Azerbaijan and will be cleaned of
"dirty Armenians".

The Azerbaijani ambassador to Iran and a religious leader of Azerbaijan
Hajali Ekramov also participated in Friday praying. Fars news agency
reports.

Note Adebil region is populated mainly by Azeris.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

So it looks like they were helping Azeris covertly, at the same Iran was helping Azerbaijan militarily they were still keeping economic relations with us. A pretty weird 2 faced strategy.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Other sources...

Armenian MOD confirms: Afghan militants fight for Azerbaijan


May 10, 2011 | 15:29
YEREVAN. – Armenian Defense Minister Seyran Ohanyan confirmed statement of Iranian spiritual leader’s representative saying Afghan militants were fighting on the Azerbaijani side during the Karabakh war.

“Afghan militants were definitely in the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh in a certain period,” Ohanyan said commenting on information spread by the Iranian sources.

According to reports, Iran helped Azerbaijan during the Karabakh war. In particular, Iran supplied weapons, trainers and ammunition, provided assistance in bringing militants from Afghanistan.

“They were withdrawn within the framework of different agreements suffering huge losses as a result of the professional action of the Karabakh side,” Minister Ohanyan said.

IRAN ‘SENT WEAPONS' TO AZERBAIJAN DURING KARABAKH WAR

Iran reportedly provided Azerbaijan with weaponry during the Karabakh war, an Iranian Imam has said. According to the Iranian news agency Arannews, Seid Ameli, said in a statement that the Karabakh war created a dilemma for Iran: either to interfere and protect Azerbaijan, which would mean a second front line with Russia, or turn a "blind eye on the killings of brother Azeris". "But Iran chose the third variant: not to take part in the war openly, but at the same time not to be an observer either," Seid Ameli said in the statement released on the occasion of the death of Alikram Aliyev, the former leader of Islamic Party of Azerbaijan. Ameli further said that though Iranian political figures have never spoken about it, Iran sent weapons to Azerbaijani soldiers during the battle in Shushi. Ameli also said that Iran assisted Azerbaijan in bringing "thousands of gunmen" to the front line from Afghanistan. According to him, thousand of Azeris living in Azerbaijan today can prove his words true.

Iran ‘sent weapons’ to Azerbaijan during Karabakh war
19:37 • 09.05.11




Iran reportedly provided Azerbaijan with weaponry during the Karabakh war, an Iranian Imam has said.

According to the Iranian news agency Arannews, Seid Ameli, said in a statement that the Karabakh war created a dilemma for Iran: either to interfere and protect Azerbaijan, which would mean a second front line with Russia, or turn a “blind eye on the killings of brother Azeris”.

“But Iran chose the third variant: not to take part in the war openly, but at the same time not to be an observer either,” Seid Ameli said in the statement released on the occasion of the death of Alikram Aliyev, the former leader of Islamic Party of Azerbaijan.

Ameli further said that though Iranian political figures have never spoken about it, Iran sent weapons to Azerbaijani soldiers during the battle in Shushi.

Ameli also said that Iran assisted Azerbaijan in bringing “thousands of gunmen” to the front line from Afghanistan.

According to him, thousand of Azeris living in Azerbaijan today can prove his words true.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

I don't know what's the fuss about Afghan mujaheddin fighting for Azerbaijan, this has been public knowledge for years, there's even a 20 page study on it online. The allegation that Iran helped Azerbaijan is new. I don't know who this Seyed Hassan Ameli is as even Google does not know much about him. Perhaps fanning the flames of Islamic solidarity? He is a cleric, based on the "Seyed" title... We're gonna have to wait and see. Maybe Persopolis has more info?
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Armenian MOD confirms: Afghan militants fight for Azerbaijan

May 10, 2011 | 15:29

YEREVAN. – Armenian Defense Minister Seyran Ohanyan confirmed statement of Iranian spiritual leader’s representative saying Afghan militants were fighting on the Azerbaijani side during the Karabakh war.

“Afghan militants were definitely in the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh in a certain period,” Ohanyan said commenting on information spread by the Iranian sources.

According to reports, Iran helped Azerbaijan during the Karabakh war. In particular, Iran supplied weapons, trainers and ammunition, provided assistance in bringing militants from Afghanistan.

“They were withdrawn within the framework of different agreements suffering huge losses as a result of the professional action of the Karabakh side,” Minister Ohanyan said.

http://news.am/eng/news/58787.html

Yes Afghan Mujahedeen definitely helped Azeris same with Chechen Islamic terrorists led by Shamil Basayev. There is actually a connection of al-Qaeda to the Mujahedeen that was helping Azerbaijan, and because of that US actually began to increase military aid to Armenia (post 9/11). We've never been good with the Sunni extremists. Maybe there were some elements within Iranian government or army that were sympathetic to Azeris - I will do more research on this.

[Federate]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

I don't know what's the fuss about Afghan mujaheddin fighting for Azerbaijan, this has been public knowledge for years, there's even a 20 page study on it online. The allegation that Iran helped Azerbaijan is new. I don't know who this Seyed Hassan Ameli is as even Google does not know much about him. Perhaps fanning the flames of Islamic solidarity? He is a cleric, based on the "Seyed" title... We're gonna have to wait and see. Maybe Persopolis has more info?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Armenian MOD confirms: Afghan militants fight for Azerbaijan

May 10, 2011 | 15:29

YEREVAN. – Armenian Defense Minister Seyran Ohanyan confirmed statement of Iranian spiritual leader’s representative saying Afghan militants were fighting on the Azerbaijani side during the Karabakh war.

“Afghan militants were definitely in the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh in a certain period,” Ohanyan said commenting on information spread by the Iranian sources.

According to reports, Iran helped Azerbaijan during the Karabakh war. In particular, Iran supplied weapons, trainers and ammunition, provided assistance in bringing militants from Afghanistan.

“They were withdrawn within the framework of different agreements suffering huge losses as a result of the professional action of the Karabakh side,” Minister Ohanyan said.

http://news.am/eng/news/58787.html