Iranian-Armenian relations

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Some Sunnis do and some don't - but the Wahhabis (Saudis) definitely don't care for Iranian-Muslims. But it's true that Iranian-Muslims are different from other Muslims -- in one way in that they generally are harmonious with Christians -- and they give Armenian-Christians access to an otherwise hostile Muslim region and protect them from those elements.

Historically, the reverse was true. The earliest Arab (or, more correctly Syrian) Muslim regimes were always far more inclusive and less extremist. But the Christian population of Syria was huge so they had to be included and tolerated - in Persia, Christians were always just a small minority. In Sassanid Persia they were persecuted because they were seen as potential allies of the Byzantine empire (much in the same way as America persecuted Communists during the Cold War) but that ended after the fall of the Sassanids and Zoroastrianism.

More than one author has noted that when Arabs tried to conquer Persia with Islam - Persia ended up conquering Islam.

And Persia also established most of the more extreme aspects of Islam. Maybe the reason behind that extremism was that Persia, as a response to being invaded, wanted to be more Islamic than those that had conquered it. It was Shia Muslims from Persia that destroyed the Umayyad dynasty in Iraq and Syria.

[lampron]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Fourth point: Armenia's leadership has openly stated that Armenia was able to survive during the bad years of the blockade on 3 borders because of Iran. It seems weird to attribute motives to Iran in trying to destroy Armenia against these sorts of facts, and against the subsequent boost Iran gave to Armenia's energy sector and economy. Serge said words to the effect that 'Iran is the path by which Armenia breathes' - another Armenian politician stated that Iran is the only regional player that's taken a sensible and fair approach, and hoped that Iran would always have a strong military presence in the region.

Single Iranian-Armenian men should move back to Iran and marry an Iranian girl and strengthen the community there instead of fading away in the diaspora. If 3-5 thousand went back and had a couple of kids and built a new small town that could be the start of something new. Coordinate with the Iranian government and build a new village in Iran ('Little Yerevan'); do what you did in the times of the Silk Road. - Iranian-Armenians have hundreds of years of history and expertise in this area and it's not doing Armenia any good if they're all assimilating in Glendale. Tap into that resources and bolster it.




More than one author has noted that when Arabs tried to conquer Persia with Islam - Persia ended up conquering Islam.


How can Azerbaijan declare Jihad? ... .

all valid points - yes Iranian Armenians (or even any Armenians) ending up in Glendale is a big loss

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
How could I have been so foolish to doubt your 4-part plan for Armenia's success?





Uuum ... let's see: that leaves your allies Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan.

Oh okay, so if Persian Armenian men don't marry Iranian women, Armenia is set to doom....

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by the way, stop extracting out of context month or even year old quotes. Leave our success path to us Armenians.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
How could I have been so foolish to doubt your 4-part plan for Armenia's success?

Georgians are just backstabbing nation we shouldnt have any relations with them

empowering women is a very bad idea. If that happens in Armenia all hell will break loose.

Countries that seem like allies like Russia only do so in order to use us, in order to sell us at the highest price.

Why do you love Iranians so much?? Man, don't you understand they don't really give a xxxx about us, if they need to they'll use us or sell us at any given moment.

Uuum ... let's see: that leaves your allies Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

My helpful tip for the day: Single Iranian-Armenian men should move back to Iran and marry an Iranian girl and strengthen the community there instead of fading away in the diaspora.

How in the world is that helpful? Those Iranian-Armenians should marry Armenian women not Iranian, they should also be encouraged to move back to Armenia and strengthen the country. I'm sure also the Iranian women who married a Christian man would be accepted with open hands in Iran or among her family who has an adequate commitment to religion.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

How selective of you.....Azeris didn't need Iran's help to get these fighters in, Pakis will do it today if they had the chance, plus Iran is against these Sunni fighters which consider Persian not true Muslims.
Any unofficial volunteers from Iran means nothing since we know Turks from Turkey and Azeris live in Iran.

You're exactly correct; and I would just add that it's in Armenia's interest not to provoke people on the Iranian side (rogue individuals) to suddenly volunteer for the Azerbaijan army.

Second point: Azerbaboon accused Iran of delivering arms to the Armenian side. (Interview with the Interior Minister of Azerbaijan, Ettelaat, 15 June 1992.)

Third point: Azerbaboon has publicly blamed Iran for Armenia's success in the NK war. They claim to have been taken off guard by what Iran told them and they were surprised by Armenia. I.e., Azerbaboon claims Iran lied to them so Armenia could gain an advantage in the war.

Fourth point: Armenia's leadership has openly stated that Armenia was able to survive during the bad years of the blockade on 3 borders because of Iran. It seems weird to attribute motives to Iran in trying to destroy Armenia against these sorts of facts, and against the subsequent boost Iran gave to Armenia's energy sector and economy. Serge said words to the effect that 'Iran is the path by which Armenia breathes' - another Armenian politician stated that Iran is the only regional player that's taken a sensible and fair approach, and hoped that Iran would always have a strong military presence in the region.

The Caucuses has long been the scene of rivalry between Russia, Turkey and Iran. Co-ordination between these three states may facilitate a long-term solution to issues in the Caucuses. However, I believe that Russia and Turkey are on a collision course in the next 50-100 years. In some ways, Russia is being negligent in not better courting Iran while Turkey is making more head-way there in terms of trade.

Prior to Russia arriving on the scene -- only one country has consistently protected Armenians and Armenia from extinction. It's not Canada, it's not Turkey; it's not Saudi Arabia; it's not Turkmenistan; it's not Georgia; it's not the USA, or Finland.

It's Iran.

There's a lot Armenians can do to shore up that relationship and bolster their chances of success.

My helpful tip for the day: Single Iranian-Armenian men should move back to Iran and marry an Iranian girl and strengthen the community there instead of fading away in the diaspora. If 3-5 thousand went back and had a couple of kids and built a new small town that could be the start of something new. Coordinate with the Iranian government and build a new village in Iran ('Little Yerevan'); do what you did in the times of the Silk Road. Just make sure the ones that do move back aren't of the type that want to set up Communist Groups, or stir up trouble. Mellow businessmen would really succeed: Set up joint Armenian/Iranian companies. In some ways, Armenia really needs the Iranian-Armenians to be in Iran to help bridge cultural differences - Iranian-Armenians have hundreds of years of history and expertise in this area and it's not doing Armenia any good if they're all assimilating in Glendale. Tap into that resources and bolster it.

Sunni fighters which consider Persian not true Muslims.

Some Sunnis do and some don't - but the Wahhabis (Saudis) definitely don't care for Iranian-Muslims. But it's true that Iranian-Muslims are different from other Muslims -- in one way in that they generally are harmonious with Christians -- and they give Armenian-Christians access to an otherwise hostile Muslim region and protect them from those elements.

Bernard Lewis:
"Iran was indeed Islamized, but it was not Arabized. Persians remained Persians. And after an interval of silence, Iran reemerged as a separate, different and distinctive element within Islam, eventually adding a new element even to Islam itself. Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, the Iranian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance. The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution. In a sense, Iranian Islam is a second advent of Islam itself, a new Islam sometimes referred to as Islam-i Ajam. It was this Persian Islam, rather than the original Arab Islam, that was brought to new areas and new peoples." (B. Lewis, Encyclopędia Britannica.)

More than one author has noted that when Arabs tried to conquer Persia with Islam - Persia ended up conquering Islam.

the only reason the Afghans and Chechen's assisted the Azeris was because the Azeris had declared a jihad against Armenia.

How can Azerbaijan declare Jihad? ... they're too busy building synagogues and demolishing Christian and Muslim monuments.
Azerbaijan declaring Jihad is like Kemal Attaturk asking for 'Allah's blessing' - the Aliyev clan doesn't look like the type of people who would be comfortable around Hezbollah or Mujahadeen fighters.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Armenian veterans who served in the Soviet war in Afghanistan cracked their Radio code which gave away their positions....the rest is history.

Some say they were the most orgenized and effective force that Armenian forces engaged during the NK war.

Sure, any body can be an effective fighter if you compare them to Azeri soldiers

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Plus they were getting crushed by our fighters. One of the reasons the writer of that article gives for Osama not mentioning Karabakh is that his fellow Mujhedeen were being humiliated by our soldiers. No wonder NATO was requesting us to send more troops to Afghanistan (which we did recently).

Armenian veterans who served in the Soviet war in Afghanistan cracked their Radio code which gave away their positions....the rest is history.

Some say they were the most orgenized and effective force that Armenian forces engaged during the NK war.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

"Nationals from Iran" is probably a reference to Azaris. The Afghans and Chechens later lost interest in the war because not only of defeats but because they realised there was no Jihad going on.

Plus they were getting crushed by our fighters. One of the reasons the writer of that article gives for Osama not mentioning Karabakh is that his fellow Mujhedeen were being humiliated by our soldiers. No wonder NATO was requesting us to send more troops to Afghanistan (which we did recently).

[Federate]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

"Nationals from Iran" is probably a reference to Azaris. The Afghans and Chechens later lost interest in the war because not only of defeats but because they realised there was no Jihad going on.