Iranian-Armenian relations

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Even Iranian Muslims are still Zoroastrian in many ways - Iranians' cultural practices, art, poetry, architecture and even social norms all date back to the pre-Islamic era (e.g. Nowruz = Persian Zoroastrian holiday - it has nothing to do with Islam.). Remember: Arabs were largely desert nomads - they were living in tents, not building monuments and printing books like Persians.

One of the problems I have with the video is that it interchangably uses pictures of Shahpur I and Shahpur II for Yazdgard III.

Shapur I capturing Valerian (Cesar): Great story for those who care to look into into it. Shapur built Valerian a prison looking at this exact sculpture of the capture; Shapur I used Rome's Cesar (Valerian) as a foot stool for getting onto his horse. When Valerian offered Shahpur money for his freedom, Shahpur I poured molten gold down Valerian's throat and put him on display.



Shapur II (309-379).


The individual that was supposed to be depicted in the video is Yazdgard III (as shown on the coin below) - What you will notice is that on his coin the symbol taken by Turks and Islam (the moon and the star) was an Pre-Islamic Persian symbol:



Someone here once asked me: How do you know that Persians are not Turks - It's because we kept many pictures; writings; artifacts, and documented history: we know what our characteristics were then, and we know what our characteristics are now.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Persopolis do u actually believe half the stuff you write? I swear man you are a typing comedy I enjoy reading what you write for pure entertainment value ... its quite funny keep it up!

A statement like yours provides zero factual information; nor does it give me any concerns of yours that I can address. What does it tell me? Nothing. You will also see that prefaced my comment with this statement: "I actually don't have a lot of time this month to write about this - but I'll just make a few notes." Be specific, or don't expect a response.

[retro]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Historically, the reverse was true. The earliest Arab (or, more correctly Syrian) Muslim regimes were always far more inclusive and less extremist. But the Christian population of Syria was huge so they had to be included and tolerated - in Persia, Christians were always just a small minority. In Sassanid Persia they were persecuted because they were seen as potential allies of the Byzantine empire (much in the same way as America persecuted Communists during the Cold War) but that ended after the fall of the Sassanids and Zoroastrianism.

Sunnis view Shia Muslims, as apostates and it's not just the Salafis and Wahhabis, who are at odds with other Islamic sects. On the other hand in Sunni Islam, the People of the Book (Ahl al-Kitab) aren't technically 'infidels' or 'supposed' to be forcefully converted.

And Persia also established most of the more extreme aspects of Islam. Maybe the reason behind that extremism was that Persia, as a response to being invaded, wanted to be more Islamic than those that had conquered it. It was Shia Muslims from Persia that destroyed the Umayyad dynasty in Iraq and Syria.

As you point out, when the Arabs and Turks despoiled Persia, they also poisoned her heart. However fighting a fire with fire risks creating an inferno and the Shia's are most unwise. As Islam is a rope that perishes in the twisting and the Arabs who have long engaged in cultural imperialism and ethnic cleansing, under the banner of Islam. Now face secular rebellions and all sorts of upheavals in the form of rise of pro-democracy and ethnic separatist movements.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

The source doesn't seem to exist. I know that Arayuz is Turkish word (but I don't know what it means).
Also Panorama.am has no such news that I know of. Any further info?

http://www.panorama.am/ru/politics/2011/05/12/imam-ameli/

the article was originally in Russian and i used google translate

and here is the Iranian website

http://www.arannews.ir/fa/

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Ayatollah Ameli talks about how the azeris are responsible for what happened in khojaly
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As reported by Iranian news agency Arannyuz

The source doesn't seem to exist. I know that Arayuz is Turkish word (but I don't know what it means).
Also Panorama.am has no such news that I know of. Any further info?

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Browsing through the above mentioned source I must say the so called news agency (Arannews.ir) is clearly anti-Armenian and pro-Azeri. "high rates of inflation in Armenia, poverty, violation of ceasefire by Armenians, killing of Muslim Azerbaijanis" are just some of them...

The guy himself is anti-Armenian but this says something if an anti-Armenian/pro-azeri talks about how Armenians were not responsible for what happened in khojaly.

[Lucin]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Ayatollah Ameli talks about how the azeris are responsible for what happened in khojaly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ayatollah Amelie events in Khojaly: For all of these were "Ergenekon" and "Mossad"
As reported by Iranian news agency Arannyuz

Browsing through the above mentioned source I must say the so called news agency (Arannews.ir) is clearly anti-Armenian and pro-Azeri. "high rates of inflation in Armenia, poverty, violation of ceasefire by Armenians, killing of Muslim Azerbaijanis" are just some of them...

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Ayatollah Ameli talks about how the azeris are responsible for what happened in khojaly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ayatollah Amelie events in Khojaly: For all of these were "Ergenekon" and "Mossad"
As reported by Iranian news agency Arannyuz "the other day a representative of Iranian spiritual leader, Imam Juma city of Ardabil, Ayatollah Seyed Hassan Ameli, made a sensational revelations about the events in Khojaly. He said that to curb the activities of Iran on the side of Azerbaijan in the Karabakh war, Israeli intelligence has established a Turkish organization Ergenekon. It was stated that the alleged pretext of aid to Azerbaijan in the Karabakh conflict, Iran is building a new organization, Hezbollah, and this process is an urgent need to stop.

Implementation of this mission was entrusted to the Turkish General Veli Kyuchyuk, Azerbaijani nationality, and for a short time there was a plan. Under the leadership of Kyuchyuk in Azerbaijan, a special organization for the preparation of a coup.

"Successful implementation of the coup were needed heavy losses at the front, it was necessary literally heavy tragedy. Under such conditions was staged Khojaly tragedy. I talked a lot about it in his sermons and charged me that I blame this people of Azerbaijan. But I was not referring to all the people and politicians of the traitors "- Amelie said, adding that this tragedy has left a stain on the reputation of the Azerbaijani people.

It is known that a few days after the Khojaly events Azerbaijani President Ayaz Mutalibov was overthrown. "Mutalibov was under the patronage of Russian. Russian had his ouster brought to power Elchibey? Clearly, what is not, and was a coup against the pro-Russian leadership. As they explained - it was a cunning plan to prevent activation of Iran on the Karabakh front, realized on the blood of innocent people. Behind all this stood Ergenekon, and in fact the Mossad "- said the imam.

Amelie also added that folder on crimes Ergenekon today revealed page after page, accompanied by revelations of traitors. However, the part concerning Azerbaijan, always hushed up. "Great Kyuchyuk and his Turkish and Azeri accomplices not being questioned in connection with the events in Khojaly. Azerbaijan is easily passed through a coup, and its members now occupy high positions in parliament and the president's office. Unpleasant situation, when the real organizers of the Khojaly tragedy pretend they are making every effort to present information about him to the world community. From such stolbeneesh "- outraged the imam.

The head of the Supreme Court of Iran Mousavi Ardebili during a visit to Azerbaijan under the mediation of the late Haji Alikram met with one of the leaders of the popular movement and offered close cooperation in various spheres, including the Karabakh issue. However, the offer of help was rejected, and Ardebili got the answer "I will come to Iran for the proclamation of Tabriz, the capital of Azerbaijan."

"The deceased Rovshan Javadov in a conversation with helping him Tabriz General mentioned an interesting nuance. He said that after the coup and the inauguration of President the first thing to meet him, and he thought that he had asked about the plan for the collection of Karabakh, but during the conversation the president pointed to some folder on the table and said: "We know everything about your collaboration with Iran (this folder was sent from Israel to Turkey and then in Azerbaijan). From today, you must cease all communication. We do not need Iran's help. If I find that Karabakh we will return with the help of Iran, I will give these lands to Armenians. Karabakh - not a serious problem and find its solution in the short term. We are at war with Iran and to prepare for war against him. Our real enemies are not Armenians, and Iranians, "- said the president.

After that, everything changed: to stop the cooperation, assistance has been rejected and were arrested by the Iranian military, who arrived at the invitation of the Azerbaijani side to cooperate in a joint headquarters. It was very strange that they were interrogated by investigators, who arrived from Turkey and Israel ", - said Amelie.

"Having felt the influence of Iran on the front, a group of politicians gathered and, giving the distance of the Turkish-Israeli affair, arranged Khodjalu events", - said the imam, and stressed that the Azerbaijani authorities to allow Israel to deploy a network of intelligence and open an embassy, as well as Israeli government officials openly declare that Azerbaijan has for them is the most convenient point for attack on Iran.

Panorama.am

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://voskanapat.info/news/ajatolla_ameli_o_sobytijakh_v_khodzhalu_za_vsem_ehtim_stojali_ehrgenekon_i_mossad/2011-05-12-1352&usg=ALkJrhj8PDyEJPQArmjpXuu7asf8CB0scA

[edojan]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Persopolis do u actually believe half the stuff you write? I swear man you are a typing comedy I enjoy reading what you write for pure entertainment value ... its quite funny keep it up!

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

.... in Persia, Christians were always just a small minority. In Sassanid Persia they were persecuted because they were seen as potential allies of the Byzantine empire (much in the same way as America persecuted Communists during the Cold War) but that ended after the fall of the Sassanids and Zoroastrianism.

I actually don't have a lot of time this month to write about this - but I'll just make a few notes.

The whole Vartan Mamigonian is often misunderstood. Christians in Iran predate the Armenian conversion to Christianity (the Bible says that plainly: The earliest converts to Christianity listed in the Bible include Persians / Parthians). To understand the Sassanids' beef with "Armenian-Christians," you are correct: they ended up being "seen as potential allies of the Byzantine empire" - it had nothing to do with them converting to Christianity because Iran already had churches and Christians that lived in a problem-free environment long before Armenian-Christianity.

The entire conflict reads like nothing more than a feudal turf war between two Iranian tribes.

Chronology:

- Arsacid Dynasty or Arshakuni Dynasty of Persia based out of Khorason (NE Iran). These are Iranians.

- The same family establishes the Arsacid Dynasty or Arshakuni Dynasty of Armenia (If you check their family tree you will see the Mamigonians in there - I've actually looked into the Mamigonian family tree in detail.) These are also Iranians but are also "Armenians."

- The Sassanids are also Iranians. The Sasanids get into a feudal turf war with the Arshakunis. The Arshakunis attempt to forge alliances outside of the Persian Empire to resist the Sassanids, but the Sassanids want to break the Arshakunis influence in Armenia by having the country folk switch back to Zoroastrianism. (The beef is about political control b/w 2 Iranian tribes - not really a religious war.)

- Vartan gets killed in the fight (in modern-day Turkey). His brother fights against him with the Sassanids. The whole thing was basically an Intra-Iranian tribal conflict. (If you look at some of the turf wars in Afghanistan today between rival factions - it probably looked something like that.)

That's the very abridged version of the history.

Here's the ghetto way of starting the inquiry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsacid_Dynasty_of_Armenia

And Persia also established most of the more extreme aspects of Islam. Maybe the reason behind that extremism was that Persia, as a response to being invaded, wanted to be more Islamic than those that had conquered it. It was Shia Muslims from Persia that destroyed the Umayyad dynasty in Iraq and Syria.

When someone threatens to take you over with a weapon - you take the weapon away from them, sharpen it, and use it against them. The Saudis today probably think it was the biggest damn-fool mistake to bring Islam to Iran because they lost control of a political weapon they otherwise would have had a monopoly over.