Iranian-Armenian relations

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Okay, Persopolis, we see your real face now. You have proclaimed Armenia part of "Greater Iran". You constantly speak of Armenia has a place that needs to be subjugated by Iranian interests because we don't know what's good for us. You lay claim to historic Armenian lands. Looks like you are not out for good "Armenian-Iranian relations" but instead just out for your Iranian imperialistic dreams. You put on a mask like you know what is good for us and what decisions we should make. I would like to see how your nation would have fared if it had the history that we have endured.

Worry about your own country and people, and trust me there's much to think about.

[Artsakh]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

A country of 2 million (formerly an Ostan of Iran) claiming Iranian territory, especially after losing, giving up, and ceding so much land that was historically a shared part of the Persian Empire, is like a rooster crowing at the sun for the last time before it is eaten. Whatever Iranian affinities exist for Armenians, trust me: you don't have the luxury of making the same mistakes Armenia made last century. Iran is neither Azerbaijan nor Armenia and was not subject to the Bolshevik historical methodology - my advice is to leave those habits behind. While Azerbaijan is a recent invention - Iran is not; and I doubt you want to get into a battle of who owns what with a country with a developed history and more powerful military.

You're feeling a little to at home here, a little bit too comfortable and self-confident. Don't forget you're a guest here, and don't forget where your limits are. You think a little too highly of yourself and your people, a little modesty is a good quality.

Your people, after all, a nation of 70 million, doesn't even have it's own alphabet. Your nation uses the arabic script, and your religion was forced upon you.

In other words, don't think you're so great. As in life, where many undeserving idiots have it handed to them, where those who are actually worthy and work for something have difficulty achieving it, so too with Iran, as well as those stupid arab countries, they had good luck in their geographic location, with oil, and resources. That's why iran is worth something today, not because theyre so great of whatever. Don't forget how the brits and Americans F***Ked over your people and used them and stole all their oil.

And what regards northern portion of Iran, that is historically Armenian land. You're not a turk, and we are not politicans. You know that's historically Armenian land. Attempting to deny it is like Turks saying Van and Kars is "historically Turkish"...never mind that turks arrived in the 12th century.

From Britannica:

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

...my ancestors actually originate from there, so there's even a person connection to that land, as they were driven out by fascist Turks, and then afterwards the Bolsheviks sealed the deal by allocating that land to the Azeris. Why the hell should that go to Persians?

I'm not going to give you an online history lesson (especially on an unrelated thread), nor do I care about your personal testimonials (where your family lived or didn't live will not determine border disputes between sovereign countries).

Major General of the Iranian armed forces Yahya Safavi (an Iranian-Azari) was born in Armenia - so what? (Actually it's another good reason to understand the difference b/w Iranian Azaris and Aliyevbaijanis and to not encourage unproductive behavior; when Safavi visits Armenia, he visits his childhood home.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Rahim_Safavi Also, I want you to notice that an Iranian-Azari looks nothing like Ilham Aliyev (a Tatar Aliyevbaijani). http://www.presstv.ir/detail/144012.html

If the subject of land claims with Iran is that interesting to you, here's what you do:

1. Start a new thread.
2. Like a historian, find each book, map and source indicating who lived in that parcel of land throughout history.
3. Determine which nation(s) held that land and for what period of time.
4. Produce the text of any agreements, treaties, or other legal instruments affecting titled to that land.
5. Report your results in an objective & chronological manner.
6. Be open to people adding sources you may have missed.
7. Detail the governing legal principles of ownership.

cant u see the VAN suffix? NaxicheVAN, YereVAN, VANadzor, VAN, IjeVAN, SeVAN, StepanaVAN, CharentsaVAN...
Instead of us claiming northern Iran as Southern Armenia, u r claiming Naxichevan and azergayjan?

A country of 2 million (formerly an Ostan of Iran for most of recorded history) claiming Iranian territory, especially after losing, giving up, and ceding so much land that was historically a shared part of the Persian Empire, is like a rooster crowing at the sun for the last time before it is eaten. Whatever Iranian affinities exist for Armenians, trust me: you don't have the luxury of making the same mistakes Armenia made during the past 150 years. Iran is neither Azerbaijan nor Armenia and was not subject to the Bolshevik historical methodology - my advice is to leave those habits behind. While Azerbaijan is a recent invention - Iran is not; and I doubt you want to get into a battle of who owns what with a country with a developed history and more powerful military.

The Armenian alphabet was developed in or about 405 A.D. so if you're making etymological arguments, I suggest you go to an earlier source - One of the world's first outdoor libraries details the history of Armenia, it's rulers, and historical ties to Iranians (Aryans):



If you want to consider an earlier time (prehistory): There are at a least 80 Urartian sites known in Iran, including castles, settlements, water channels and other water constructions, rock chambers, rock graves, stelae, rock inscriptions, and building inscriptions. Surveys and excavations in Bastam, Qalʿa-ye Esmāʿil Āqā, west of Urmia and in Sangar, west of Māku have brought to light ceramics (sherds), small finds, and tablets with important cuneiform texts. (Most of the invasions into this region by Arabs, Turko-Mongols, Russians, etc. came at a MUCH later period in history - that's Aliyevbaijan's weak point in making land claims based on history - but it is not Iran's.)

...Armenian could one day do something similar in Nackichevan after its liberation.

Something interesting should be done to that land and the regional players should cooperate. One-sided declarations are fruitless. Iran / Aliyevbaijan = Apples / Oranges = Historical Fact /vs/ Recent Fabrication.

Hopefully, Armenian Universities have history departments that honestly and thoroughly explore the actual history of the Caucuses - otherwise people will develop faulty expectations and counterproductive attitudes based on gift-shop pamphlets and hollow nationalistic and revisionist-rhetoric that will alienate regional allies, and at best make those who make such claims look like fools in the eyes of the world's scholars (one of Aliyevbaijan's characteristics).

Have you ever seen their land claims based on *Oghuz Khan*? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oghuz_Khan I die from laughing whenever I read that. The only thing worse is a combination of Bolshevik/Pan-Turkic brainwashing -- do some reading on the "Ruhnama." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhnama - http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...e-ruhnama.html

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Nackichevan sounds almost like Naqsh e Jahan which can translate into map of the world, plan of the world, Image of the world....can be seen as a new beginning.

Just like what Shah Abbas did in Esfehan by building a city and moving the capital there where Nasqsh e Jahan square is now, Armenian could one day do something similar in Nackichevan after its liberation.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

You were the one who was wishing to take back lands.

He did not express such a wish. He just posted an article that was about taking back those lands. An article no doubt written as a response by Iran to equivalent Azeri articles arguing for a Greater Azerbaijan that includes territory that is part of Iran, and which was probably intended to be a reality-check for Azerbaijan (as in "cease you claims on our lands because we can also claim yours"). Of course, neither claim has any chance of ever being realised. There is no Iranian population living in Azerbaijan that would support annexation by Iran, and Azerbaijan will never be strong enough to take territory from Iran.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Haven't I told you before that simply wishing things on the internet won't make them come true? Mos, I declare all of your childhood toys mine. Henceforth, they belong to me (and to the Government of Iran). I will rename your collection of toy trucks "Greater Iran" and your sister will be named 'Sally.'

Do you actually do anything useful to help Armenia?

But what would the Armenian armchair patriots do if they couldn't wish for impossible things to be true.

[Lucin]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Both Azerbaijan and some Armenians have interesting theories as to the name - ancient Armenian writings in New Julfa used this spelling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naqsh-e_Jahan_Square Eddo or Lucin can translate the definition for you: نقش جهان

Haven't I told you before that simply wishing things on the internet won't make them come true? Mos, I declare all of your childhood toys mine. Henceforth, they belong to me (and to the Government of Iran). I will rename your collection of toy trucks "Greater Iran" and your sister will be named 'Sally.'

Do you actually do anything useful to help Armenia?

I have no theories as to the name, though have heard many.. in my case, considering that both my parents come from the city of Isfahan, we can almost safely assume that our ancestors trace back to Nakhijevan (the Old Julfa) which has been overwhelmingly Armenian.

[retro]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

These are Tajik (Persian) women in Afghanistan - as you can see they are civilized and not like the Taliban savages: compare it to the Taliban cutting ears off, burning women alive, and forcing them to wear a giant blue blanket over their faces. The best thing that can happen is for Persian culture to reassert itself in Afghanistan and for the extremist elements to be ousted.

I know what your saying and I realise it's the Pakistanis and Saudis, who are largely to blame for the mess that is Afghanistan. Sadly the Tajiks in Afghanistan are seemingly little better than, the Pashtuns and corruption is systemic in Afghanistan society. Afghanistan is basically a feudal society and is in a very bad state after 30 years of war.

Tajikistan is a intresting country. However like the other Central Asia states; it has a very corrupt establishment. The Tajiks in Tajikistan are more geographically isolated and less admixed and differ somewhat from other Persians. It's also worth noting that the Hunnic Uyghur-speaking region of western China is centered around Kashgar to the east of Tajikistan. Consequently the Uyghurs tend to have a far amount of Iranic ancestry.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Both Azerbaijan and some Armenians have interesting theories as to the name - ancient Armenian writings in New Julfa used this spelling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naqsh-e_Jahan_Square Eddo or Lucin can translate the definition for you: نقش جهان

Haven't I told you before that simply wishing things on the internet won't make them come true? Mos, I declare all of your childhood toys mine. Henceforth, they belong to me (and to the Government of Iran). I will rename your collection of toy trucks "Greater Iran" and your sister will be named 'Sally.'

Do you actually do anything useful to help Armenia?

You were the one who was wishing to take back lands, I was just revising your wishes to be more historically accurate. Naxijevan is indeed historically Armenian land, my ancestors actually originate from there, so there's even a person connection to that land, as they were driven out by fascist Turks, and then afterwards the Bolsheviks sealed the deal by allocating that land to the Azeris. Why the hell should that go to Persians?

[haysip]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

cant u see the VAN suffix? NaxicheVAN, YereVAN, VANadzor, VAN, IjeVAN, SeVAN, StepanaVAN, CharentsaVAN...
Instead of us claiming northern Iran as Southern Armenia, u r claiming Naxichevan and azergayjan?