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Iranian-Armenian relations

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  • Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

    Originally posted by retro View Post

    [1] What about the Assyrians and Greeks or the Maronites in Lebanon?
    [2] No the Armenians like the others where targeted solely because they where Christians. In no small part due to the sick and twisted way in which Islam views and threats non-Muslims.
    [3] Iran's intentions towards Armenia are hardly honourable.
    [4] most of your feral, Iranic brothers are Sunnis.
    [5] Whilst the Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds and Georgians (Caucasians) aren't excactly Iranics.
    .
    1. There might be a thread relating to the other groups you mentioned; I am aware of the characteristics of Armenians from several thousands years ago - and socially and genetically they are very close to the Persian people of Iran. The ones in from Armenia-SSR may be very different at this point (I'm not sure; at least socially, I hope so.).

    2. Thank God Christians don't kill people; and if your statement, with the breadth which it was written, was true Armenia would easily have disappeared 2,000 years ago.

    3. Can't respond to vague jargon unsupported by facts, sorry. Maybe make a thread and detail your complaints.

    4. Whether that's true or not - so what? And what does it have to do with this thread?

    5. I'm not certain what "Iranics" means as you've used it; but the more you study in school, the more you learn that your statement is over-broad. Again, I'm not sure why I should be discussing the Georgians or Assyrians here. Armenians that stayed on the North side of the iron curtain likely have genetic admixtures from the various soviet republics that ParskaHyes don't have because of the things that happened on the other side of the fence. Hope that helps.

    Answer me one question: Approximately how many ParskaHyes has Armenia convinced to move to Armenia?


    Originally posted by Mos View Post
    What idiot put Armenia and Georgia under "Greater Iran"?
    Armenian historians starting from the 6th century B.C. up until Russia took over Armenia at the start of the last century (And after Armenina-SSR, the present Armenian government). Here's a map that reflects the consensus view of scholars:

    Last edited by Persopolis; 04-08-2011, 09:02 PM.
    I <3 Armenians! They're the best!

    LOLz
    -Sig

    Comment


    • Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

      Originally posted by Armanen View Post
      Both Iran and Russia realize the important role Armenia plays in the region both as a hammer to hold over azerbaijan and turkey's heads, and to curb Western influence. Not to mention the ideological role that Armenian nationalism plays against pan-turanism.
      We have always done this balancing act of survival and provided our services in war....Armenian "Wedge" against Turanism will hold, that is if our friends Iran and Russia know what is good for them.
      B0zkurt Hunter

      Comment


      • Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

        Originally posted by Persopolis View Post
        1. There might be a thread relating to the other groups you mentioned; I am aware of the characteristics of Armenians from several thousands years ago - and socially and genetically they are very close to the Persian people of Iran. The ones in from Armenia-SSR may be very different at this point (I'm not sure; at least socially, I hope so.).
        Well obviously Persian-Armenians will be close to Persians. So will Persian-Georgians or anybody else. You have to compare not Persian-Armenians, but Armenians from Armenia, because we have been living in Armenian society and in Armenian state. That should be your point of reference. Because the Republic of Armenia is the continuation of the Armenian nation.
        Armenian historians starting from the 6th century B.C. up until Russia took over Armenia at the start of the last century (And after Armenina-SSR, the present Armenian government). Here's a map that reflects the consensus view of scholars:
        Again, I highly question those historians, because Armenia does not belong under Greater Iran. We don't belong under any country or people, we should always be independent. Our Golden Ages in history have been when we were independent. SO much Armenian blood has been shed for us not to be subjugated to foreign powers and influences, including the Persians. Keeping our Christian religion has been an expensive thing to do and has been done with much blood shed and sacrifice, but we are victorious because we stand today Proud Christians and holding the Title of the First Christian Nation.

        This is one of the most famous paintings depicted the Battle of Avarayr (against Sassanids). You should know all about this battle.



        The hero who led the battle: Vartan Mamikonyan

        Last edited by Mos; 04-08-2011, 09:29 PM.
        Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
        ---
        "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

        Comment


        • Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

          Let's see. We got dumb, [email protected] ass Azar claiming Armenians are Iranian, then we have our newest inclusion to the dumbass nation, Persepolis, claiming Armenians are part of Greater Iran.
          There is no historian with any credibility that claims Armenians are Iranic. You're full of xxxx. It took a while, but your bs is starting to come out. Lose your arrogance and stop posting sh!t in this forum.

          Richard Nelson Frye defines Greater Iran as including "much of the Caucasus, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Central Asia, with cultural influences extending to China, western India, and the Semitic speaking world." According to Frye, "Iran means all lands and peoples where Iranian languages were and are spoken, and where in the past, multi-faceted Iranian cultures existed."[16]
          Armenians are not an Iranian culture, and therefore cannot be part of Greater Iran.
          Last edited by levon; 04-08-2011, 10:54 PM.

          Comment


          • Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

            From http://www.armenian-history.com/Nyut...of_armenia.htm

            Armenia had become a dependency of Persia after the fall of the Median empire in 550 B.C. The Armenian contingents, cavalry and infantry, had taken part in Cyrus's conquest of Lydia in 546 and of Babylonia in 539. A rebellion of ten subject nations one of them Armenia broke out against Persia during the reign of Darius I (522‑486). The Armenians were compelled to acknowledge defeat after five battles, one of them fought on Assyrian territory. "Arakha, an Armen, the son of Haldita," pretender to the throne of Babylonia, was also defeated and executed. Armenia became thereafter the thirteenth of the twenty provinces of the Empire, ruled by satraps "khshatrapa" in Persian. Native grandees, however, were permitted to exercise a certain measure of authority under the satraps.

            The forced union accomplished among the powerful states of the East Assyria, Babylonia, Lydia and Egypt contributed greatly towards the known world's commercial and financial development. Land and sea communication with India was established during the Achaemenid period. Darius I reopened the canal connecting the River Nile with the Red Sea, which had been dug during the period of the Pharaohs. Darius I also introduced an improved monetary system, and safer and quicker means of travel and transportation. In conjunction with several peoples of the Euxine Sea coast, the Armenian satrapy paid to the Imperial treasury 400 talents, equivalent to $400,000.

            Armenia also supplied the King's stable with 20,000 foals for every annual festival of Mithra. Armenian military forces had been joining the Persian army from the earliest times. Those who served under Xerxes in the invasion of Greece in 480 B.C., says Herodotus, "were armed like the Phrygians, and together with these, they were commanded by Artomex II, son-in‑law of Darius." Their weapons and equipment were all alike. At that time the Armens had occupied only southwestern parts of Armenia, while the Saspeirs and the Urarteans or Alarodians lived in the plains of Ararat. The Persian "royal" highway, connecting Sardice (Lydia) and Susa (Persia) passed across the modern Malatia-Harpout-Diarbekir-Jezireh areas.
            B0zkurt Hunter

            Comment


            • Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

              Originally posted by Mos View Post
              Well obviously Persian-Armenians will be close to Persians.
              Yes, and according to most sources, including the Armenian government, the first Armenian tribes formed in a loose feudal association in the 6th Century B.C. and merged with Medians and Persians. That is, Iranian-Armenians are not somehow lesser Armenians - As a purely factual matter they are longest uninterrupted portion of the Armenian civilization.

              Originally posted by Mos View Post
              You have to compare not Persian-Armenians, but Armenians from Armenia, because we have been living in Armenian society and in Armenian state.
              I don't think 200 years of Bolshevism was a part of traditional Armenian culture, sorry.


              Originally posted by Mos View Post
              Again, I highly question those historians.
              Young men behind anonymous avatars generally don't debunk historians who devoted their life's work to a certain subject, and even if you were to try, you'd have to debunk the overwhelming majority of historians. If you're successful, I will be the first to congratulate you, but be certain that you have not done it here.


              Originally posted by Mos View Post
              Armenia does not belong under Greater Iran. We don't belong under any country or people, we should always be independent.
              Historians don't write what SHOULD happen - they write what DID happen.

              Originally posted by Mos View Post
              This is one of the most famous paintings depicted the Battle of Avarayr (against Sassanids). You should know all about this battle.
              Yes I do.

              KEY EVENTS IN THE MAMIKONIAN TIMELINE:

              * Starting in the 6th Century B.C. a loose confederation of tribes merged with the Medians and Persians and the first government of Armenia was founded. Tigranes the First, progeny of Cyrus the Great of Persia, assumed governorship of Armenia under the Persian-Achaemenid dynasty.

              * Fast Forward After Many Centuries of Intermarriage.

              * In 301 A.D. Armenians converted to Christianity.

              * The Mamikonian clan was a loyal part of Persia.

              * Then in approximately 330 B.C. A feudal lord named Vassak Mamikonian was put in charge of the governorship of Western Armenia (now in Turkey, near Van). Vassak Mamikonian was defeated by Persia, and many Armenians loyal to Persia, after he attempted to rebel to set up his own feudal territory.

              * Vassak's brother, Vahan Mamikonian and other feudal lords stayed loyal to Persia - Vahan fought against his brother. Vahan governed Perso-Armenia (the only Armenia that exists today). Vahan Mamikonian by staying loyal to Persia saved Armenia from invading armies.

              * In 450 A.D., Vartan Mamikonian, like Vassak, instituted an Armenian rebellion near Van (in Modern Day Turkey) where he led 70,000 Armenians to death against Persia in attempting to set up his own feudal estate. Vartan Mamikonian was killed in battle.

              * Following the defeat of Vartan, members of the Mamikonian clan later sided with the Roman Empire and Byzantine government - where they convinced Armenians to move to what is now modern-day Turkey where many later became citizens of the Ottoman state.

              * Note: In 1828, using "Saint Vartan Mamikonian" as a rallying slogan, Armenian politicians convinced Armenia to join Russia, and lost Persian protection. After Armenia joined Russia, Armenian politicians and Russia forfeited all of Western Armenia to the Ottomans and the Russians failed to protect against Armenians from the Armenian Genocide in 1915.

              * In Armenian-SSR it became popular to say that Vartan Mamikonian was the person that secured the right of Christianity to be practiced in the Persian empire. But as has been pointed out, Vartan Mamikonian's rebellion was in 450 A.D., and according to Acts 2:9 in the Acts of the Apostles there were Persians, Parthians and Medes among the very first new Christian converts at Pentecost (but no "Armenians"). This was 350 years before Vartan Mamikonian led his rebellion to permit Christianity in Persia. (In the book of 'Acts of Apostles' (chapter II, V.9) first century A.D., it is mentioned that on "the Day of Pentecost" (part of harvest festival observed by early Christians) there were at Jerusalem "Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and inhabitants of Mesopotamia.") Early Christian records also mention that Peter and Thomas preached the Gospel to the Parthians and men such as Thaddaeus, Bartholomew, and Addeus evangelized the races of Mesopotamia and Persia, and that Mari, a noble Persian convert, succeeded Addeus in the government of the Persian Christian communities. The bishops, Abrjs, Abraham, Jacob, Ahadabuhi, Tomarsa, Shahlufa, and finally bishop Papa succeeded him (end of the third century). Syriac documents also indicate that towards the beginning of the third century the Christians in the Persian territories had some three hundred and sixty churches. Again, this is at least 100 years before Vartan Mamikonian's rebellion to 'allow Christianity in Persia.'

              * [Out of sensitivity to the faith of others, I will omit some information here.]

              * Today Armenia is 1/3 of the size it was under the Persian Empire, and the fact that Christianity is permitted in Iran has 0% to do with Vartan Mamikonian.
              Last edited by Persopolis; 04-09-2011, 12:11 AM.
              I <3 Armenians! They're the best!

              LOLz
              -Sig

              Comment


              • Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

                Originally posted by levon View Post
                Let's see. We got dumb, [email protected] ass Azar claiming Armenians are Iranian.
                You didn't really say that to an Iranian-Azari did you? Easy to say from mommy's basement.

                Originally posted by levon View Post
                then we have our newest inclusion to the dumbass nation, Persepolis...Armenians are not an Iranian culture, and therefore cannot be part of Greater Iran.
                I only quoted a recognized Armenian scholar.
                V
                V
                "By George A. Bournoutian, Prof. of Armenian History Columbia Univ.: "Prior to the third century A.D., Iran had more influence on Armenia's culture than any of its other neighbours. Intermarriage among the Iranian and Armenian nobility was common. The two peoples shared many religious, political, and linguistic elements and traditions and, at one time, even shared the same dynasty."

                Remember that this is the quote you used -- I want you to read it carefully with a little help from the bold-underline feature:

                Richard Nelson Frye defines Greater Iran as including "much of the Caucasus, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Central Asia, with cultural influences extending to China, western India, and the Semitic speaking world." According to Frye, "Iran means all lands and peoples where Iranian languages were and are spoken, and where in the past, multi-faceted Iranian cultures existed."[16]
                Last edited by Persopolis; 04-09-2011, 12:06 AM.
                I <3 Armenians! They're the best!

                LOLz
                -Sig

                Comment


                • Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

                  Originally posted by Persopolis View Post
                  I don't think 200 years of Bolshevism was a part of traditional Armenian culture, sorry.
                  So what are you trying to say? That Armenians of Armenia have some wrong culture? That the sole influence that we should only get is from Persians? Armenians now are a typical Soviet people like it or not, and we trust Russians and are closer to them in many respects than Persians. Again, the ancestral homeland for all Armenians is Armenia, and let that be Persian, or whatever Armenian, the Republic of Armenia will be that ancestral land. We see Persian Armenians moving back to Armenia or other such Armenians, they act and are influeneced by the people of Armenia. So again, your point of reference has to be people of Armenia and the Republic.


                  Mos, you are 21 years old; like all young men, you probably question your parents when they give you life advice, but young men behind anonymous avatars generally don't debunk historians who devoted their life's work to a certain subject, and even if you were to try, you'd have to debunk the overwhelming majority. If you're successful, I will be the first to congratulate you, but be certain that you have not done it here.
                  You don't know my age. And yes I will question anyone that says Armenia belongs as part of "Greater Iran" because any right minded Armenian will know that Independence from foreign powers is our greatest luxury.

                  Historians don't write what SHOULD happen - they write what DID happen.
                  All right so we are part of Greater Mongolian Empire, how about Turkish empire? Just because we were forcibly put under these powers doesn't mean we belong in "Greater Iran". Does Italy also put out such maps, in doing so including most of Western World?


                  Yes I do.
                  and you should thus know an example of our struggles in trying to make our people Free of any foreign empire or influence, and to sustain our Christian identity. One of our golden ages was during Kingdom of Cilicia, started by Levon the I, when we were an independent Kingdom:



                  Commercial and military interactions with Europeans brought new Western influences to the Cilician Armenian society. Many aspects of Western European life were adopted by the nobility including chivalry, fashions in clothing, and the use of French titles, names, and language. Moreover, the organization of the Cilician society shifted from its traditional system to become closer to Western feudalism.[6] The European Crusaders themselves borrowed know-how, such as elements of Armenian castle-building and church architecture.[7] Cilician Armenia thrived economically, with the port of Ayas serving as a center for East to West trade.[6]
                  Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
                  ---
                  "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

                  Comment


                  • Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

                    Originally posted by Mos View Post
                    Armenians now are a typical Soviet people.
                    Why is that part of the history OK, but not the Persian part which is several thousand years longer?

                    Originally posted by Mos View Post
                    You don't know my age.
                    You stated your age - I hoped what you said was reliable.

                    Originally posted by Mos View Post
                    Does Italy also put out such maps?
                    Yes. http://www.apl.com/boomerangbox/reso...omanempire.jpg
                    I <3 Armenians! They're the best!

                    LOLz
                    -Sig

                    Comment


                    • Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

                      Originally posted by Mukuch View Post
                      Nonsense....Armenia doesn’t play any important role in the region... Armenia is just being played by Russia and some attempts to do the same by Iran. The only thing ARMENIA CAN PUTOUT IS A COGERENT FORAIGHN POLICY which Armenia do not poses .

                      When adults speak or type in this case, please stfu.
                      For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                      to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                      http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

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