Iranian-Armenian relations

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

No, you're just spreading propaganda that other people make up. Hey, what about your buddy Berlusconi... what a saint, thank goodness Europe isn't backwards.

Lol, it's not propaganda, it's reality. Minor girls are often married off to old men. Watch that video that I posted the other day, it shows how a teenager gets married off to a old 60 year old man, and that is his 2nd or 3rd wife. They secretly film how they go to the Imam and get everything approved. I never said Berlusconi is a Saint, but at least in Europe marrying off teenage girls to older men, stoning women, and so on is forbidden by law. At least Europeans and rest of the world for that matter can have music in schools or women can go to and watch soccer games. So if you deny this how do you explain Iran's constitution which is based off of Islamic law and allows all this?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Lol, it's not propaganda, it's reality. Minor girls are often married off to old men. Watch that video that I posted the other day, it shows how a teenager gets married off to a old 60 year old man, and that is his 2nd or 3rd wife. They secretly film how they go to the Imam and get everything approved. I never said Berlusconi is a Saint, but at least in Europe marrying off teenage girls to older men, stoning women, and so on is forbidden by law. At least Europeans and rest of the world for that matter can have music in schools or women can go to and watch soccer games. So if you deny this how do you explain Iran's constitution which is based off of Islamic law and allows all this?

Most girls in Iran get married in their mid 20's. Most of them with a rather impressive education. That story of some guy selling his daughter aged 8 or 9 because he was in debt was out of Saudi Arabia. What business is it to you what their laws are?

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Most girls in Iran get married in their mid 20's. Most of them with a rather impressive education. That story of some guy selling his daughter aged 8 or 9 because he was in debt was out of Saudi Arabia. What business is it to you what their laws are?

No, teenage girls get married off as well, as I said see that video. There have been cases for younger girls to have been married off, all done legally or with a bribe to the Imam for him to bless the marriage. In our relations with them, we should just keep a mind of some of the human rights violations (e.g. stoning women or frequent hangings of people) that take place in Iran all under the influence of their Islamic integrated laws.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

No, teenage girls get married off as well, as I said see that video. There have been cases for younger girls to have been married off, all done legally or with a bribe to the Imam for him to bless the marriage. In our relations with them, we should just keep a mind of some of the human rights violations (e.g. stoning women or frequent hangings of people) that take place in Iran all under the influence of their Islamic integrated laws.

Some criminals shouldn't have rights. I'm all for capital punishment in certain cases. What's wrong with 17 or 18 year old girls getting married if they don't want to pursue an education? At least they get married instead of prostitute around in the "free" world.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

[To: Mos] You keep trying to disclaim the importance of Iran-Armenia ties by throwing Turkey in the mix so the same can be said about Russia.

It appears Mos likes the prospects of destroying ties with the only country Armenia shares a border with - that can actually contribute to Armenia's viability and does. (I mean this seriously: I've scoured the Azerbaboon forums - and if the Azeris found someone like Mos, they would pay him to do what he does. It's sad.)

A FEW IDEAS ON WHAT IS GOING ON W/ TURKEY:

Iran is not at war with Turkey - Turkey doesn't fit into Europe and needs economic partners. Iran is the main regional power in the middle east (Neither Moscow nor the U.S. can influence Muslim states like Iran - the people in the ME also view the Saudis as puppets of the U.S.). Iran controls the oil-producing portions of Southern Iraq, half of Lebanon, 1/3 of Afghanistan, and has influence as far away as Syria, China, Tajikistan, and South America. I put up a video by Robert Baer, former CIA officer, saying that even without a nuke "Iran is a superpower." In 1979 every military commander and scientist in Iran (loyal to the Shah) was replaced. A few years ago Iran became one of few states to put its own domestically produced and launched satellite into space. In Lebanon, Iranian proxies, pushed Israel out of Southern Lebanon; struck an Israeli warship with an Iranian missile; and destroyed many Israeli tanks. Turkey knows that it has to play ball with Iran - and one of the positive consequences could be that Turkey and Armenia may "normalize" relations (to the extent possible after such a horrible history); Turkey may also sell Aliyev down the river, especially if Iran/Turkey ties come with Armenia as a piggyback (Armenia can indirectly do business with Turkey through Iran, given the strained history). If Armenia is within Iran's sphere of influence, Turkey will have to think twice about aiding Azerbaijan unless it wants to be renamed "Kurdistan."

This summer, or even in the next 2 years, Russia may start facing mass protests - Russia will be busy and faces threats of its own. Armenia is Russia's most reliable partner in the Caucuses, but Armenia has 3 million people and few natural resources. So, Russia is playing ball with Azerbaijan also -- and trying to keep NATO from getting a foothold there (it doesn't want another Georgia / Chechnya). It will be interesting to see how long Russia can balance that situation. Conventional wisdom has it that Aliyev will attack Armenia on, or about, 2013 (when his 2nd term is up). Aliyev is starting to feel protests at home: I see him trying to attack Armenia (with unknown results) and then fleeing to Dubai, Turkey, or Russia in the next 10 years.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

In our relations with them, we should just keep a mind of some of the human rights violations (e.g. stoning women or frequent hangings of people) that take place in Iran all under the influence of their Islamic integrated laws.

I know you like topics that cover Sex Slavery:

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Some criminals shouldn't have rights. I'm all for capital punishment in certain cases. What's wrong with 17 or 18 year old girls getting married if they don't want to pursue an education? At least they get married instead of prostitute around in the "free" world.

So barbarically stoning women for adultery, which is not even proven in all case, is right? oh great..

Yeah, 17 or 18 year olds being the 3rd or 4th wife of a old 60 year old for some money is a great start to their lives...

It appears Mos likes the prospects of destroying ties with the only country Armenia shares a border with - that can actually contribute to Armenia's viability and does. (I mean this seriously: I've scoured the Azerbaboon forums - and if the Azeris found someone like Mos, they would pay him to do what he does. It's sad.)

Lol, I'm not destroying ties, I'm just discussing some of the things that take place in Iran. I don't care if Iran boils its own people, we'll still have economic relations with Iran as we have no choice given our situation.

This summer, or even in the next 2 years, Russia may start facing mass protests - Russia will be busy and faces threats of its own. Armenia is Russia's most reliable partner in the Caucuses, but Armenia has 3 million people and few natural resources. So, Russia is playing ball with Azerbaijan also -- and trying to keep NATO from getting a foothold there (it doesn't want another Georgia / Chechnya). It will be interesting to see how long Russia can balance that situation. Conventional wisdom has it that Aliyev will attack Armenia on, or about, 2013 (when his 2nd term is up). Aliyev is starting to feel protests at home: I see him trying to attack Armenia (with unknown results) and then fleeing to Dubai, Turkey, or Russia in the next 10 years.

Russia plays ball with Azerbaijan same reason every other country plays ball with Azerbaijan. OIL & GAS!


Will Iran be prepared to defend Armenia like Russia if Azeris attacks Armenian territory? Can we rely on you guys with supporting us militarily during the war? That's the true test of an ally.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

A informative article on Iran-Armenian relations:

Ekmanian: Armenia-Iran Relations in Light of Recent Developments
By: Harout Ekmanian

Iran’s human rights issues, its greater involvement in the Arab-Israeli conflict and in regional politics, and its controversial nuclear program have put the country on the most debated list in various foreign policy forums and media throughout the world.

Trade and economic sanctions have been applied to the Islamic Republic for decades from western governments, particularly the United States and the European Union. And negotiations to solve the Iranian nuclear problem by peaceful means and to lift the sanctions have failed several times.

A new round of negotiations between Iran and the P5+1 group (the five permanent members of UN Security Council and Germany) kicked off in Istanbul this week, with Turkish mediation. The process didn’t look promising from the outset, however. Prior to the negotiations, a spokesperson of the Iranian Ministry of Foreign Affairs stressed that Iran’s nuclear program must be discussed separately from the trilateral agreement signed last May—and not welcomed by the U.S. and European Union—on uranium exchange between Iran, Turkey, and Brazil.

Despite Iran’s challenges to the world’s leading political and economic superpowers, its relations with Armenia appear to be very close. Plans to boost cooperation are being discussed and bilateral agreements have been signed between both sides during regular visits by high-level government officials.

Successive Armenian governments have avoided any criticism of Tehran’s nuclear ambitions, underscoring the Islamic Republic’s perceived importance for the security and economic development of the landlocked country. Unresolved bitter disputes with two other Muslim neighbors, Azerbaijan and Turkey, have made Iran one of Armenia’s two transport conduits to the outside world.

According to Civilitas Foundation analyst Tatul Hakobyan, Armenia-Iran relations were very cordial during the last two decades. “Iran has been Armenia’s friend in its worst moments, and Armenia shouldn’t forget that fact,” said Hakobyan. “During the period from 1992-94, the Islamic Republic was a window of hope connecting us with the world.”

Since its independence from the Soviet Union, Armenia has established good relations with the United States, European Union, and other Euro-Atlantic organizations, but hasn’t become a tool against Iran. “I think that Tehran appreciates this fact,” said Hakobyan.

During an official visit to Tehran in mid-September, Armenian Foreign Minister Eduard Nalbandian said that Armenia is “closely monitoring” the situation and hopes for “a mutually acceptable solution” to Iran’s nuclear program.

RFE/RL reported that Armenian President Serge Sarkisian, while visiting Germany last June, publicly stated that the nuclear crisis will not be resolved unless the West addresses “Iran’s sense of being in danger.” He also held up Armenian-Iranian projects as a model for regional cooperation.

According to the National Statistical Service of Armenia, the scale of that trade totaled $97.6 million and accounted for only 4.5 percent of Armenia’s overall external exchange in the first half of this year. This rate stands modestly in comparison with the volume of Armenia’s trade with the United States, for example, which is slightly higher.

However, Tehran presented a draft Free Trade Agreement (FTA) to Yerevan to enhance the two-way transactions in August 2009. In early 2010, after the ninth meeting of the Armenian-Iranian Intergovernmental Commission on Economic Cooperation, Iranian Foreign Minister Manoucher Mottaki said the FTA would allow both countries to boost their trade to $500 million. In an interview with Panarmenian.net in September, he said it “would help to elevate our relations to an adequate level.”

Prior to the visit of the Armenian minister of economy, Nerses Yeritsyan, in September, and the visit of Prime Minister Tigran Sargsyan in mid-October, Iranian newspapers claimed the FTA would be signed during these visits; however, the Armenian side denied such claims and the agreement has not yet been signed.

Armenia appears to be reluctant about finalizing the free trade deal with Iran because Iran is not prepared to introduce zero customs dues in trading with Armenia, according to a statement by an Armenian government official to the Capital daily newspaper of Yerevan.

Iran is not a member of the World Trade Organization and protects its market by applying extremely high import tariffs, in sharp contrast to Armenia’s liberal trade regime—one of the reasons why Armenian exports to Iran make up only a fraction of bilateral trade. Armenian businessmen have long complained about that disparity, reports RFE/RL.

Nevertheless, during the Armenian foreign minister’s last visit to Tehran, both sides discussed the implementation of agreements previously signed in various sectors, including energy, electricity, trade, and transportation, and the oil industry.

Several joint energy projects are being planned by both countries. Most important is the 140km-long Iran-Armenia Gas Pipeline, which will carry 2.3 billion cubic meters per year from Iran to Armenia once it start to function in 2011. Other projects include the construction of two hydro-electric plants on the Arax River, which marks the Armenian-Iranian border, and of a third high-voltage transmission line linking their power grids and dams; the improvement of infrastructure; the development of railways; and the construction of an oil refinery.

According to Tatul Hakobyan, Armenia doesn’t have a huge dependence on Iran. “The reason is that Armenia is greatly dependant on Russia, be it economically, politically, militarily, and most of all psychologically,” said Hakobyan. “But as a neighboring country, which is connected with Armenia by a gas pipeline, a few electricity plants, and other energetic-communication projects, Iran is very important for Armenia.”

In a recent analysis, the director of the Norvanak Research Complex, Gagik Haroutyunyan, said that Iran is seeking to counterbalance Russia and Turkey in the South Caucasus to get its “share” in the ongoing political process. Evidence thereof is the visa-free travel agreement with Georgia similar to that established with Azerbaijan earlier. (Azerbaijan, however, hasn’t yet applied the agreement on its side.)

Iran has repeatedly expressed its readiness to act as a mediator between Armenia and Azerbaijan in resolving the Karabagh conflict. During an official visit to Baku last week, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad stressed that his country is ready to support the peaceful resolution of the Karabagh conflict. “We are ready to make our utmost contribution to a quick resolution of the Karabagh problem by means of negotiations, on a just basis and within the framework of international law,” said Ahmadinejad in an interview to Lider TV. “The Nagorno-Karabagh conflict can be solved if the external pressure on the South Caucasus region is stopped,” he added.

According to the Regnum news agency, Ahmadinejad skirted Azerbaijani journalists’ persistent questions about Iran’s close political and economic ties with Christian Armenia and its compatibility with Muslim solidarity championed by Tehran. “I’m not going to say what you want to hear from me,” the Russian news agency quoted him as saying.

Armenian officials have always praised Iran for its role in resolving the Karabagh dispute, saying it has taken a “balanced” stance. “Iran supports Azerbaijan in its statements regarding the Karabagh conflict, but de facto it remains neutral, or pro-Armenian neutral, if it’s right to put it like this,” said Tatul Hakobyan, who is also the author of Green and Black Artsakh Diary. “During the process of finding a resolution for the Karabagh conflict, Iran’s views must be considered too. But, while powerful mediators like Russia, the EU, and the United States are involved in this process, it is unlikely they would share the tempting cake of mediators with Iran. Nevertheless, Iran’s positive neutrality regarding the Karabagh conflict is very important,” Hakobyan added.

Unlike its border with Turkey and Azerbaijan, Armenia’s short border with Iran is open to traffic. The increasingly common sight of Iranian tourists in Armenia reflects the growing relationship between the two states. Data extrapolated from the National Statistical Service of Armenia shows that only 29,600 Iranian tourists entered Armenia from January to September 2008, while more than 44,000 entered during the same period the following year. Recent statements from the tourism department of the Ministry of Economy indicate that from January to September of this year, 84,000 Iranian tourists chose Armenia for their holidays—nearly double the number of the previous year.

Many Iranian citizens are also favoring Armenia to either establish businesses or for study purposes. Some of them are establishing a permanent residency in the country, buying property and settling their business and family there. For many Iranians, Armenia offers a breath of fresh air, away from the tight control of an ultra-conservative regime.

Earlier this month, a group of Iranians residing in Armenia picketed in front of their country’s embassy to condemn the possible execution of an Iranian woman, Sakina Ashtiani, who is sentenced to death for alleged adultery. A group of Armenian activists organized a protest in front of the Iranian Embassy in Yerevan as well.

In late October, Tehran hosted the 17th festival of press and information agencies. The Armenian delegation, represented by reporters from the panarmenian.net agency and Azg newspaper, was attacked by the Azeri delegation after showing a photograph of Artsakh’s symbol in their pavilion. The Iranian organizers were not sympathetic to the Armenian delegation, which in turn boycotted the event and disseminated a condemning statement. However, virtually no Armenia media outlet referred to the incident.

Two years ago, during the public outcry after the Iranian presidential elections, Yerevan also witnessed minor protests and petitions by some journalists and activists. However, Armenian officials preferred to turn a blind eye in this and other such cases; government officials have never released any comments regarding human rights issues in Iran.

According to Tatul Hakobyan, there are two reasons for the official idle attitude. First, Armenia itself is not a great example in democracy and human rights, thus it has no right to teach that to others. Second, in Armenia, most people understand that with two enemies on our borders—Azerbaijan and Turkey—it’s not right to risk relations with Iran.

With its strategic location in the Middle East and Central Eurasia, and its large reserves of petroleum and natural gas, Iran holds an important position in the world economy and in energy security. Iran is a regional power of particular significance for Armenia, which is battling for survival and development in one of the world’s most difficult neighborhoods.

Note: The Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Iran in Armenia was contacted for questions and opinions on this report. As of publishing, however, it had not responded.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Will Iran be prepared to defend Armenia like Russia if Azeris attacks Armenian territory? Can we rely on you guys with supporting us militarily during the war? That's the true test of an ally.

Do you mean before or after the Iranian government reads your posts? Let's first forward your posts to the Armenian government and ask their opinion on the substance, frequency and content of your posts; and what they think it means for diplomatic relations. I think they may buy you a First-Class ticket to Tehran so you can ask for yourself. They will probably conclude that you are an Israeli-J*w or a Turk, or working for them, and shouldn't have been permitted to carry on attempting to harm relations between 2 countries on this forum. That's my honest opinion.

In the future: don't respond to anything I write, as you won't get a response.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Do you mean before or after the Iranian government reads your posts? Let's first forward your posts to the Armenian government and ask their opinion on the substance, frequency and content of your posts; and what they think it means for diplomatic relations. I think they may buy you a First-Class ticket to Tehran so you can ask for yourself. They will probably conclude that you are an Israeli-J*w or a Turk, or working for them, and shouldn't have been permitted to carry on attempting to harm relations between 2 countries on this forum. That's my honest opinion.

In the future: don't respond to anything I write, as you won't get a response.

I was asking you simple question. Instead you start bring me into the mix. Will Iran help us militarily in an event of a war with Azerbaijan? Will they at least pressure Azerbaijan? yes or no? And for asking that question I'm branded a "Turk" and "Israeli J3w", great logic there. And for the millionth time, I'm not trying to harm relations.

You're just super sensitive. Just because I don't kiss Iran's a*s in every post, doesn't mean I'm anti-Iranian. As person looking out for Armenia's interest, I will look at all our relations pragmatically - and given that, I've never said we should not have relations with Iran, on the contrary I've supported those relations. Unfortunately, you just enjoy branding be a stupid labels.