Iranian-Armenian relations

[Persopolis]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

You've got to be kidding me. Have you ever seen an Armenian priest fired up? You see, most Armenians are sleepy and hung over at mass so the sermon has to be loud and ground shaking, lol.

I modified the earlier video to add a Persian statesman just to show the other side of the coin. I know which one scares Armenians the most.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

... were Armenians put on this planet to be tortured?

Don't adopt that belief or you'll become Israeli overnight. The Persian empire was unique - contrast it with Rome's. If you read ancient accounts, people said that they actually enjoyed it (I swear).

Did you know that Alexander the Great's own troops almost killed him? When Alexander got to Persia, after some sacking and destroying, he changed his mind and decided to stay ... there are accounts of him saying, words to the effect, 'This place is actually pretty nice ... I wouldn't mind staying.' He ended-up getting married as did several of his top Greek generals. There was almost a mutiny among the men he dragged halfway around the world - they couldn't understand why they fought all those bloody wars when Alexander actually got along with the Persians and was having a good time by the time he reached the Middle of Persia.

[Persopolis]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Are you kidding, do you know how devided and fcked up we are? We are our own worst enemy Persopolis and there is no cure in sight for any forseeable future.

In all seriousness, coordinate with Lucin, you have to do something about those issues ... it very dangerous for Armenia when the kids don't understand the context and parrot what the mainstream media says. It makes unnecessary enemies out of friends.

(Obviously I don't mean you're the problem - here I'm referring to the mindset among some in Yerevan.)

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Don't believe the hype about the turkish military. They are not much stronger than Irans and would not win a 1 on 1 war just as I do not think Iran would win either. The azeri military is another story, Iran would wipe the floor with them in a matter of days.

If Turkey invades Iran they will loose very badly. I don't think people realize the capabilities of Iranian Armed Forces, self sufficiency, and geograghy of Iran (from high mountain ranges, large deserts) which works like a fortress

US would not succeed let alone Turks.

Iran would never attack Turkey unless it is in self defense....they may not do too good there unless they have help from outside.


@Persopolis:

Lucin? that is another member here that I am not familiar with right? how so?

[retro]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

If Turkey invades Iran they will loose very badly. I don't think people realize the capabilities of Iranian Armed Forces, self sufficiency, and geograghy of Iran (from high mountain ranges, large deserts) which works like a fortress

In terms of manpower on paper maybe they are fairly well macthed. However in terms of training, platforms and capabilities. Turkey is by far the stronger power. I know that Iran has Russian cruise missiles and Air defences. However it's certainly not on a par with Turkey.

Further more Turkey need not overrun the entire country, merely fragment it. The Azeris may well not be the sharpest tools in the box. However given their alignment with Turkey and large numbers within Iran. I'd say that they already constitute a threat to Iran's territorial integrity or at the very least a exploitable source of instability.

What is more as far as I can see the Kurds regional intrests are fairly closely aligned with the Azeris. If Turkey where to war against Iran. Then the Turk would likely spin it as a war against "Shia aggression" and call upon Arab/Western support.

The Iranians isolation is dangerous and they need to be a bit more reasonable.

[Armanen]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Just to narrow the discussion: I don't see how Russia will fend off all these problems, which is one of the reasons I believe Russia needs Iran if it views the U.S. as its main competition (Iran is the only country that has proven it can influence Afghanistan and Tajikistan, and perhaps others among those listed.). Also, I'm not sure how Armenia will help Russia (except as to Azerbaijan if Armenia becomes/stays Russia's military wing - then again, it could simply trade away Armenia to solve other problems, if things get really bad).

Well, we can create a thread to talk more in depth about Russia's problems and what they should or should not do in order to mitigate or erase them. How Armenia helps Russia is because it prevents the linking of two pan turkic states, azerbaijan and turkey, it prevents turkey or any other nation for that matter, from controlling the South Caucasus and thus Russia's Caucasus region, and it provides Moscow with another lever of pressure against the turks/azeris if they should get out of line. Already Moscow has backed aliyev into the corner and he does not have much room. He knows he will be done for if he attacks Artsakh/Armenia, he knows that Russia will be gunning for him if he decides to sell all of his oil and gas to the Europeans, and he knows that turkey is willing to open the border with Armenia, only thing that keeps them from doing so is the energy card azerbaijan has. I bring this last point up because it was Moscow that was behind the Protocols that Armenia signed with turkey, Moscow would like to see Armenia become stronger vis a vis georgia and azerbaijan. One way of doing this is turning Armenia into a major transit country, and the strategists in the Kremlin also realized that they could estrange the relationship between baku and ankara if the border were to open. Thus another way to drive azerbaijan into the corner.

CAUCUSES:

* Georgia – Fully defected from Russia.

* Azerbaijan – Following Georgia’s path, but in slower fashion; already Russia has partially lost out to U.S. British, Turkish & Israeli interests in each area: economics, military, social.

* Armenia – Within Russia’s sphere of influence (but Russia sometimes takes actions contrary to Armenia: e.g., NK blockade)

A new administration will come into power in tiflis and they will be much more inclined to deal with Russia. They know that they have no chance of joining nato, and they saw how the West didn't do anything for them. So let's give this time to play out. I already spoke about Armenia and azerbaijan above.

RUSSIAN CAUCUSES:

* Chechnya – Chronic Sunni Insurgency (Bin Laden style extremism).

* Dagestan – Constant threats to break free (Chechnya potential – Saudi Arabia influence / extremism potential).

This is where Iran and Armenia can be helpful. I agree with that. So you point out how (bad) things are in this region, just imagine how much worse it would be for Moscow if they lost Armenia and thus the South Caucasus.

EAST OF THE CASPIAN:

* Kazakhstan – defected

* Uzbekistan – defected

* Turkmenistan – defected

* Kyrgyzstan – defected

* Tajikistan – defected

* Afghanistan - Russian military failure.

Not sure why you think these countries have left Russia's sphere of influence. For example, the language of the elite is still Russian, not their native tongue. All are members of either the SCO or CSTO or both, and these are Russian led groupings. I think a few years ago you could have spoken about these regions leaving the Russian orbit, and indeed China has moved into the region somewhat, but the affinities of the Central Asians lie with Moscow not Beijing. Also, it is with Russian blessing that the American base is still in Kyrgyzstan.

Afghanistan was a Soviet failure and the Kremlin learned its lesson. It is the Americans and NATO who have not learned the lesson and thus they find themselves in the current mess. Iran can be of great help to Russia and the West in Afghanistan and indeed the Russians and Iranians recently agreed to team up to solve the drug problem which stems from Afghanistan.

RUSSIAN HEARTLAND:

* Tatarstan – Suni Turks; partial independence – Turkey, the U.S., and Saudis exerting influence. (Very oil rich region.) Recently calling itself "the New Azerbaijan."

Tatarstan is safe, I don't know why you think it is in danger of revolting. Tatars are well embedded in Russian society, and they have their own republic within the Federation. Also, they have not had the recent history of warfare with the Russians which the chechans and other Caucasian peoples have, so that is another point to take into account.


As for the videos. I think the Mullahs in Iran are rational actors and they will not do anything crazy or reckless which would endanger their hold on power. So while some of them may say crazy things I realize it is for show and I do realize it is not targeted at Armenians. You can easily find so called 'Christian' preachers and jooish rabbis that say some outlandish things as well.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

I don't make exceptions....in fact I don't give a sh1t who recognizes the AG anymore. You want Iran to be like the two faced Europeans and recognize a xxxish created word like "Genocide". To me actions speak louder than empty words.

When you gonna get it in your thick head that the AG is nothing but a political card and will never have anything to do with justice and moral. We are waisting our limited resources playing into the hands of the ones who manupilate us.

Given our position, our lack of resources, the Armenian Genocide card is the biggest thing we have against the Turks. The Turks are scared of what it can do to them and their reputation (already they have bad reputation in world). We have to utilise that card not give our only leverage against Turkey away. We have to continue this struggle, or else we let the Turks win - and thus let them finish the the job they started. One of the key steps to Genocide is its denial. I understand its a political card, but its a political card that scares Turkey and can really defame them.

I would be careful what you label some European countries, for example France, Switzerland, and Netherlands all have firmly recognised Genocide and gone further in criminalising its denial. That's something notable. Actually, most countries to have recognised genocide are European ones. If Iran recognised the Genocide tomorrow, would you stand by your statement that we shouldn't pursue Genocide recognition?

If Turkey invades Iran they will loose very badly. I don't think people realize the capabilities of Iranian Armed Forces, self sufficiency, and geograghy of Iran (from high mountain ranges, large deserts) which works like a fortress

US would not succeed let alone Turks.

Iran would never attack Turkey unless it is in self defense....they may not do too good there unless they have help from outside.


@Persopolis:

Lucin? that is another member here that I am not familiar with right? how so?

Turks will never attack Iran. They are stupid, but not that stupid.

[Armanen]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

In terms of manpower on paper maybe they are fairly well macthed. However in terms of training, platforms and capabilities. Turkey is by far the stronger power. I know that Iran has Russian cruise missiles and Air defences. However it's certainly not on a par with Turkey.

Further more Turkey need not overrun the entire country, merely fragment it. The Azeris may well not be the sharpest tools in the box. However given their alignment with Turkey and large numbers within Iran. I'd say that they already constitute a threat to Iran's territorial integrity or at the very least a exploitable source of instability.

What is more as far as I can see the Kurds regional intrests are fairly closely aligned with the Azeris. If Turkey where to war against Iran. Then the Turk would likely spin it as a war against "Shia aggression" and call upon Arab/Western support.

The Iranians isolation is dangerous and they need to be a bit more reasonable.

You are giving way too much credit to turkey. In 30 years they have yet to put down the PKK, and you think they can take on a regional power like Iran? Also, the Azaris of north Iran are not the same as those in azerbaijan. One is an Iranic people speaking a turkic language, the other a mostly turkic people speaking a turkic language. I see you have fallen pray to pan-turkic propaganda.

Also, we are talking about a 1 on 1 war, but realistically the West would try to get involved since they would love nothing more than to get rid of the Mullahs. As for the kurds, it is too difficult to predict what they would do since they come in so many different shapes and sizes, ideologically speaking of course. Plus, many remember the promises made to them by turkey during the Genocide, and they will not fall victim to it again. They would likely demand to be paid before hand, something the turks wouldn't do.

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

In terms of manpower on paper maybe they are fairly well macthed. However in terms of training, platforms and capabilities. Turkey is by far the stronger power. I know that Iran has Russian cruise missiles and Air defences. However it's certainly not on a par with Turkey.

Further more Turkey need not overrun the entire country, merely fragment it. The Azeris may well not be the sharpest tools in the box. However given their alignment with Turkey and large numbers within Iran. I'd say that they already constitute a threat to Iran's territorial integrity or at the very least a exploitable source of instability.

What is more as far as I can see the Kurds regional intrests are fairly closely aligned with the Azeris. If Turkey where to war against Iran. Then the Turk would likely spin it as a war against "Shia aggression" and call upon Arab/Western support.

The Iranians isolation is dangerous and they need to be a bit more reasonable.

Turkey to fragment the Mullahs with Iranian Azaris? Good joke.

Iranian Soldiers not trained as good as Turkish soldiers? a bigger joke....like I said you don't know jack.

Kurds and Azeris? :Facepalm:

Deep down inside Turkey is scared of Iran, did you know that? Also Iran can grind the Turkish military machine to a hault by stoping its supplies of oil/gas (30% of Turkey's consumption)


@Mos:
I never said we should stop persuing the AG recognition, I am in front of the Turkish consulate every year regardless of my feelings about it. Just remember that we should view it as a weapon against Turkey.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

[1] However it's certainly not on a par with Turkey. [2] What is more as far as I can see the Kurds regional intrests are fairly closely aligned with the Azeris. If Turkey where to war against Iran. Then the Turk would likely spin it as a war against "Shia aggression" and call upon Arab/Western support.

[1] Turkey is not on par with Iran, you're right. Turkey's military is propped up by the U.S. (a super power) - Iran's is largely domestically made. It should tell you something about the will of the Iranian people to fight. The other difference is when that Iraq tried to invade Iran, Iranians by the millions volunteered to go to the front lines - Iranians were offended if they couldn't go directly to the front lines. I seriously doubt that millions of Turks would volunteer for this type of fighting (let me know when the Turkish army is willing to chase the PKK through the mountains and then we'll talk). Turkey's active/reserve/paramilitary (ARP) forces are about 1 million total - Iran has at least 3 million professional troops (excluding reserves and foreign paramilitary units). If you consider Iran's total available man-power, it get's even worse for Turkey (Iran can raise a 20 million-man army, if not more, without any trouble). Turkey spent much of its existence licking Israel's and the US's shoes - Iran is comfortable giving both of those countries the finger; you don't do that from a position of weakness. Iranian children have more courage than the average Turkish solider. (see photos.)

[2] Ah yes, the war of "Shia Aggression" - The problem with that theory is that its the Sunni-Kurds that want to see Turkey partitioned (not the Shia the Kurds - who are extremely loyal to Iran). Azeris and Kurds also generally don't like each other, so they're not going to be "teaming up" against Iran. Turkey trying to sell the Arab world the "Shia Aggression" theory misses a few points: (a) Many Arabs are Shia, including the majority in Iraq; (b) Arab countries like Lebanon and Syria are loyal to Iran; (c) if Iran is styled as "the Shia-Agressor" - you can be sure that Turkey will be styled as the "so-called Muslim country founded by the gay J*w, Attaturk."

Iranian Boys Have More Courage Than Most Turkish Men (Iran/Iraq War 1981)





19,000 Iraqi Troops Taken Prisoner By Iran In A Single Battle (Iran/Iraq War 1981)



Israeli Mirkava Tank Destroyed By Iranian Rocket in Lebanon (Fired By Hezbollah)