Iranian-Armenian relations

[Armanen]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

My friend, Iranians are paying attention ... before I joined this site I got a number of complaints from them. Iranians (like Armenians) will ask themselves what Armenians did to put an end to these types of attitudes (I did my part). Iranians are not passive people ... Iranians will respond because views like his reflect what Armenian parents and schools have taught their kids.

It depends on the Armenian. I am from Armenia and neither I nor my immeadiate family have any negative views on Iran or Iranians. I have met some really fu*ked up Armenians and Iranians, especially on the American west coast, so I think it matters greatly on the upbringing and the environment one finds himself in.

[UrMistake]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

+1 to Armanen last post,im also from yerevan and we don't have any negative view to other nations except turks!!

[Persopolis]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Remember Armenians, as low as we are in numbers, have fought for Iran's interests for centuries as well.

I appreciate that and respect you for it. My beef isn't with you.

Nevertheless, because Armenians are small in numbers, if Armenian hostility towards Iran (no matter how slight) is not curbed internally (by Armenians), it poses great risks to the survival of Armenia.

Russia has a lot of former and present republics where it is facing a threat - many of them Turkic - don't count on Russia supporting Armenia forever. It would be stupid to make this assumption (e.g., Russia had to cut and run out of Afghanistan and the U.S. is about to do the same). Personally, I doubt that Russia will defend a territory with a few million people forever and may side with Azerbaijan at the expense of Armenian territory for purposes of cutting costs, maintaining its own security (to keep out NATO), or for Azeri petro-dollars. Russia presently supports Armenia without question and is presently considered a good ally to Armenia - but history has shown that Russia changes its stance too; all of Armenia's territorial losses in the modern-era took place under Moscow's stewardship. All of them.

These are facts:

* North-West border = Turkey (a mortal enemy);
* South-West border = Kurds (totally unpredictable in masses and possibly a mortal enemy);
* Eastern border = Azerbaijan (a mortal enemy - and you likely will fight more wars with them in the future);
* Northern border = Georgia (a lame duck state with comparatively limited help it can give Armenia unless you want to throw Georgian watermelons at invading armies and fill your tanks with Georgian Holy Water);
* Slightly North-East of Armenia = Daghestan (= a Bin Laden Sunni faction - I seriously doubt they will be your friends);
* Southern border = Iran.

Bad relations with Iran = A high-probability that there will be No more Armenia.

I know some kid will chime in that "3 million brave Armenian warriors will battle the Turks forever," (or something like that); However, I'm being realistic: Patriotic slogans will not save the day for Armenia if most of your borders end up with enemies and/or Russia changes its position. At best you can expect another diaspora, huge territorial losses, or colonization of Armenia by Turks and Kurds. Should any of these things happen you are likely finished as a people.

Armenia needs a massive campaign to reorient the *dumb* opinions and wasted energy of its youth against Iran. Iranians will not do it for you. And my message to Retro, and others like him, should have been clear - slam Iran, and you will get slammed back ten-fold. Persian hospitality and neighborliness is not limitless.

What would I do if I was an Armenian? Tell the Armenian government to reorient its educational system to purge these attitudes and have the diaspora network do the same.

Remember:

* Iran can seal the border.
* Iran can cut its energy supplies to Armenia.
* Iranians can take a hostile view of people that espouse hostile attitudes towards them.
* Iran can spend its tourist dollars in Turkey.
* Iran can give Azerbaijan the military route its sought to attack Armenia.
* And much more.

Why tolerate a band of idiots within your midst that increase these types of results?

(By the way, Iran doesn't fear Turkey - Turkey fears Iran. Iran can galvanize turkic people to fight against Turkey, but Turkey cannot convince Persian speakers to fight against Iran. Half the Arab world is also under Iran's sway. And Iran can turn Turkey into Kurdistan very easily in addition to leveling Ankara through military force. When you look at historical maps and see where Turkey's fantasy of mega Turkish Super State was thwarted - it was Iran. Iranian soldiers are some of the most fearless and capable in the world.)

[Armanen]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Russia has a lot of former and present republics where it is facing a threat - many of them Turkic - don't count on Russia supporting Armenia forever. It would be stupid to make this assumption (e.g., Russia had to cut and run out of Afghanistan and the U.S. is about to do the same). Personally, I doubt that Russia will defend a territory with a few million people forever and may side with Azerbaijan at the expense of Armenian territory for purposes of cutting costs, maintaining its own security (to keep out NATO), or for Azeri petro-dollars. Russia presently supports Armenia without question and is presently considered a good ally to Armenia - but history has shown that Russia changes its stance too; all of Armenia's territorial losses in the modern-era took place under Moscow's stewardship. All of them.

I think you need to read this blog my friend. http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

If Russia leaves Armenia, they can forget about not only the South Caucasus region, but also their own Caucasus republics. As you mentioned, Russia is facing a pan-turkic and Islamic threat from fundamentalists and separatists. Giving up Armenia for azeri oil and natural gas, when Russia has already put baku in the corner and has other means of pressuring them is highly unlikely and the policy makers in the Kremlin know what would be at stake should they lose Armenia.

Russia is currently advancing its interests in all 3 of its strategic areas, Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia. Since Putin came to power they have regained much of their lost influence, which had been lost due to the poor and ineffective rule under Yeltsin. I do not remember Russia changing its stance, I do remember the bolsheviks (many were joos) coming to power and cutting a deal with the turks, and stalin (a georgian) giving Armenian lands to the azeris. So long as Russia is led by ethnic Russians Armenia will be fine. Russia has more natural resources than any other nation in the world, they have one of the most powerful militaries, and probably the most powerful intelligence network in the world.

Contrary to popular belief, this century will not be the Chinese century, it may well just be the Russian century if the Kremlin continues to play their cards right. I realize Russia still has a number of issues to deal with, the most important being the demographic one, however, should they solve this and some of the other issues they are well on their way Super-power status again. I think the Anglo-American-zionist elite fear Russian more than any other entity in the world.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

No one is slamming Iran, I pretty sure everybody here is supportive of continued good relations with Iran as strategically, for us, it's the best move really, and balances Azeris very well with it. What we are arguing about is Iran's intentions and interests in the region, and how such interests can both help and hurt us.

Hayastancis (people from Armenia) are much more attached to post-Soviet sphere and obviously Russia, thus we will naturally trust Russia more than any other country, that's just how it is. Many of our parents, grandparents have grown up as Soviets and the impact of Soviet mindset and culture has been huge. So you must understand that yes our people have historical relations, but to Armenians of Armenia Iran right now is a friendly country, of course, but still a foreign one. It doesn't have the attachment that Russia has. Maybe that will change, maybe it won't - but take our comments about Iran in stride.

[Persopolis]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

I think you need to read this blog my friend. http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

If Russia leaves Armenia, they can forget about not only the South Caucasus region, but also their own Caucasus republics. As you mentioned, Russia is facing a pan-turkic and Islamic threat from fundamentalists and separatists.

Just to narrow the discussion: I don't see how Russia will fend off all these problems, which is one of the reasons I believe Russia needs Iran if it views the U.S. as its main competition (Iran is the only country that has proven it can influence Afghanistan and Tajikistan, and perhaps others among those listed.). Also, I'm not sure how Armenia will help Russia (except as to Azerbaijan if Armenia becomes/stays Russia's military wing - then again, it could simply trade away Armenia to solve other problems, if things get really bad).

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/09/separatism_and_russia.html

CAUCUSES:

* Georgia – Fully defected from Russia.

* Azerbaijan – Following Georgia’s path, but in slower fashion; already Russia has partially lost out to U.S. British, Turkish & Israeli interests in each area: economics, military, social.

* Armenia – Within Russia’s sphere of influence (but Russia sometimes takes actions contrary to Armenia: e.g., NK blockade)


RUSSIAN CAUCUSES:

* Chechnya – Chronic Sunni Insurgency (Bin Laden style extremism).

* Dagestan – Constant threats to break free (Chechnya potential – Saudi Arabia influence / extremism potential).


EAST OF THE CASPIAN:

* Kazakhstan – defected

* Uzbekistan – defected

* Turkmenistan – defected

* Kyrgyzstan – defected

* Tajikistan – defected

* Afghanistan - Russian military failure.


RUSSIAN HEARTLAND:

* Tatarstan – Suni Turks; partial independence – Turkey, the U.S., and Saudis exerting influence. (Very oil rich region.) Recently calling itself "the New Azerbaijan."
________________________________

Now let me bring the discussion back to my point. Iran = 50% ancient Persian culture / 50% Shia Muslim Culture. Armenian-Christians have prospered under both Persian culture and Shia culture. The Ayatollah yelling at Israel is for a different audience (not Armenians); it relates to Iran's sphere of influence in the Arabian world (Lebanon / Syria / Jordan / Southern Iraq / Now Egypt ! / Bahrain / Oman). [The religious establishment in Iran actually subsidizes the Armenian Church - that's a hint: the Shia Muslim dimension/rhetoric in Iran is not for Amenian ears nor against Armenians - never has been. Remember when you hear someone in Iran say something religious that sounds "crazy" to you ... as an Armenian, you likely are not the intended audience. (In fact, Iranian muslims, for the most part, are not the Bin Laden types.) Though Monte had no problem volunteering to join Hezbollah (on behalf of Iran) and attacking Israel, it doesn't mean you have to. ]


Though this aspect of Iran probably scares the hell out of most Armenians - remember you're not the audience (He probably stops off at an Armenian cafe on his way home from work): When evaluating religion in Iran, always ask: "Who is the audience"?

Compared to a Persian statesman.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Pan-Persian.... Pan-Turkish... Greater Israel.... Rise of Russia, Tatars... damn, were Armenians put on this planet to be tortured?

[Eddo211]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

I appreciate that and respect you for it. My beef isn't with you.

Nevertheless, because Armenians are small in numbers, if Armenian hostility towards Iran (no matter how slight) is not curbed internally (by Armenians), it poses great risks to the survival of Armenia.

Are you kidding, do you know how devided and fcked up we are? We are our own worst enemy Persopolis and there is no cure in sight for any forseeable future.

[Eddo211]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

What does that really mean? So it's fine the condemn the countries that don't recognise the Genocide, but not for Iran? You can't make such exceptions..

I don't make exceptions....in fact I don't give a sh1t who recognizes the AG anymore. You want Iran to be like the two faced Europeans and recognize a xxxish created word like "Genocide". To me actions speak louder than empty words.

When you gonna get it in your thick head that the AG is nothing but a political card and will never have anything to do with justice and moral. We are waisting our limited resources playing into the hands of the ones who manupilate us.

[KanadaHye]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Though this aspect of Iran probably scares the hell out of most Armenians - remember you're not the audience (He probably stops off at an Armenian cafe on his way home from work): When evaluating religion in Iran, always ask: "Who is the audience"?

You've got to be kidding me. Have you ever seen an Armenian priest fired up? You see, most Armenians are sleepy and hung over at mass so the sermon has to be loud and ground shaking, lol.