Iranian-Armenian relations

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Haven't I told you before that simply wishing things on the internet won't make them come true? Mos, I declare all of your childhood toys mine. Henceforth, they belong to me (and to the Government of Iran). I will rename your collection of toy trucks "Greater Iran" and your sister will be named 'Sally.'

Do you actually do anything useful to help Armenia?

But what would the Armenian armchair patriots do if they couldn't wish for impossible things to be true.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

You were the one who was wishing to take back lands.

He did not express such a wish. He just posted an article that was about taking back those lands. An article no doubt written as a response by Iran to equivalent Azeri articles arguing for a Greater Azerbaijan that includes territory that is part of Iran, and which was probably intended to be a reality-check for Azerbaijan (as in "cease you claims on our lands because we can also claim yours"). Of course, neither claim has any chance of ever being realised. There is no Iranian population living in Azerbaijan that would support annexation by Iran, and Azerbaijan will never be strong enough to take territory from Iran.

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Nackichevan sounds almost like Naqsh e Jahan which can translate into map of the world, plan of the world, Image of the world....can be seen as a new beginning.

Just like what Shah Abbas did in Esfehan by building a city and moving the capital there where Nasqsh e Jahan square is now, Armenian could one day do something similar in Nackichevan after its liberation.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

...my ancestors actually originate from there, so there's even a person connection to that land, as they were driven out by fascist Turks, and then afterwards the Bolsheviks sealed the deal by allocating that land to the Azeris. Why the hell should that go to Persians?

I'm not going to give you an online history lesson (especially on an unrelated thread), nor do I care about your personal testimonials (where your family lived or didn't live will not determine border disputes between sovereign countries).

Major General of the Iranian armed forces Yahya Safavi (an Iranian-Azari) was born in Armenia - so what? (Actually it's another good reason to understand the difference b/w Iranian Azaris and Aliyevbaijanis and to not encourage unproductive behavior; when Safavi visits Armenia, he visits his childhood home.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Rahim_Safavi Also, I want you to notice that an Iranian-Azari looks nothing like Ilham Aliyev (a Tatar Aliyevbaijani). http://www.presstv.ir/detail/144012.html

If the subject of land claims with Iran is that interesting to you, here's what you do:

1. Start a new thread.
2. Like a historian, find each book, map and source indicating who lived in that parcel of land throughout history.
3. Determine which nation(s) held that land and for what period of time.
4. Produce the text of any agreements, treaties, or other legal instruments affecting titled to that land.
5. Report your results in an objective & chronological manner.
6. Be open to people adding sources you may have missed.
7. Detail the governing legal principles of ownership.

cant u see the VAN suffix? NaxicheVAN, YereVAN, VANadzor, VAN, IjeVAN, SeVAN, StepanaVAN, CharentsaVAN...
Instead of us claiming northern Iran as Southern Armenia, u r claiming Naxichevan and azergayjan?

A country of 2 million (formerly an Ostan of Iran for most of recorded history) claiming Iranian territory, especially after losing, giving up, and ceding so much land that was historically a shared part of the Persian Empire, is like a rooster crowing at the sun for the last time before it is eaten. Whatever Iranian affinities exist for Armenians, trust me: you don't have the luxury of making the same mistakes Armenia made during the past 150 years. Iran is neither Azerbaijan nor Armenia and was not subject to the Bolshevik historical methodology - my advice is to leave those habits behind. While Azerbaijan is a recent invention - Iran is not; and I doubt you want to get into a battle of who owns what with a country with a developed history and more powerful military.

The Armenian alphabet was developed in or about 405 A.D. so if you're making etymological arguments, I suggest you go to an earlier source - One of the world's first outdoor libraries details the history of Armenia, it's rulers, and historical ties to Iranians (Aryans):



If you want to consider an earlier time (prehistory): There are at a least 80 Urartian sites known in Iran, including castles, settlements, water channels and other water constructions, rock chambers, rock graves, stelae, rock inscriptions, and building inscriptions. Surveys and excavations in Bastam, Qalʿa-ye Esmāʿil Āqā, west of Urmia and in Sangar, west of Māku have brought to light ceramics (sherds), small finds, and tablets with important cuneiform texts. (Most of the invasions into this region by Arabs, Turko-Mongols, Russians, etc. came at a MUCH later period in history - that's Aliyevbaijan's weak point in making land claims based on history - but it is not Iran's.)

...Armenian could one day do something similar in Nackichevan after its liberation.

Something interesting should be done to that land and the regional players should cooperate. One-sided declarations are fruitless. Iran / Aliyevbaijan = Apples / Oranges = Historical Fact /vs/ Recent Fabrication.

Hopefully, Armenian Universities have history departments that honestly and thoroughly explore the actual history of the Caucuses - otherwise people will develop faulty expectations and counterproductive attitudes based on gift-shop pamphlets and hollow nationalistic and revisionist-rhetoric that will alienate regional allies, and at best make those who make such claims look like fools in the eyes of the world's scholars (one of Aliyevbaijan's characteristics).

Have you ever seen their land claims based on *Oghuz Khan*? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oghuz_Khan I die from laughing whenever I read that. The only thing worse is a combination of Bolshevik/Pan-Turkic brainwashing -- do some reading on the "Ruhnama." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhnama - http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...e-ruhnama.html

[Artsakh]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

A country of 2 million (formerly an Ostan of Iran) claiming Iranian territory, especially after losing, giving up, and ceding so much land that was historically a shared part of the Persian Empire, is like a rooster crowing at the sun for the last time before it is eaten. Whatever Iranian affinities exist for Armenians, trust me: you don't have the luxury of making the same mistakes Armenia made last century. Iran is neither Azerbaijan nor Armenia and was not subject to the Bolshevik historical methodology - my advice is to leave those habits behind. While Azerbaijan is a recent invention - Iran is not; and I doubt you want to get into a battle of who owns what with a country with a developed history and more powerful military.

You're feeling a little to at home here, a little bit too comfortable and self-confident. Don't forget you're a guest here, and don't forget where your limits are. You think a little too highly of yourself and your people, a little modesty is a good quality.

Your people, after all, a nation of 70 million, doesn't even have it's own alphabet. Your nation uses the arabic script, and your religion was forced upon you.

In other words, don't think you're so great. As in life, where many undeserving idiots have it handed to them, where those who are actually worthy and work for something have difficulty achieving it, so too with Iran, as well as those stupid arab countries, they had good luck in their geographic location, with oil, and resources. That's why iran is worth something today, not because theyre so great of whatever. Don't forget how the brits and Americans F***Ked over your people and used them and stole all their oil.

And what regards northern portion of Iran, that is historically Armenian land. You're not a turk, and we are not politicans. You know that's historically Armenian land. Attempting to deny it is like Turks saying Van and Kars is "historically Turkish"...never mind that turks arrived in the 12th century.

From Britannica:

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Okay, Persopolis, we see your real face now. You have proclaimed Armenia part of "Greater Iran". You constantly speak of Armenia has a place that needs to be subjugated by Iranian interests because we don't know what's good for us. You lay claim to historic Armenian lands. Looks like you are not out for good "Armenian-Iranian relations" but instead just out for your Iranian imperialistic dreams. You put on a mask like you know what is good for us and what decisions we should make. I would like to see how your nation would have fared if it had the history that we have endured.

Worry about your own country and people, and trust me there's much to think about.

[Eddo211]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Something interesting should be done to that land and the regional players should cooperate. One-sided declarations are fruitless. Iran / Azerbaijan = Apples / Oranges.

Hopefully, Armenian Universities have history departments that honestly and thoroughly explore the actual history of the Caucuses - otherwise people will develop faulty expectations and counterproductive attitudes based on gift-shop pamphlets and hollow nationalistic and revisionist-rhetoric that will alienate regional allies.

The population of Nackichevan was over 90% Armenian even in recent history....the land has been the sceen of countless battles throughout history, enough that you can kickup ancient weapons walking around. It has been conquered, re-conquered and conquered again by empires that don't exist anymore, the land has been flooded in blood in times....but it has always been Armenian land, historically.

If we go with your logic Iran has lesser claim than Turkey or Russia who are its guarantors at the moment.

[haysip]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

what an as$hole. just because ur half-human emipre conqured Hayq for some time doesnt mean its urs dam$hit. look at ur history, its all fights and conquring just like the turks. ur halfhuman barbaric country doesnt even have a culture of its own. cant u see muslim is ur culture??? and we all know what happens to a country's culture when muslims take over...

ONCE AGAIN THE ADMINS OF THIS FORUM ARE FAILING TO CLEAN ALL THE ANTI-ARMENIANISM!!!!

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

what an as$hole. just because ur half-human emipre conqured Hayq for some time doesnt mean its urs dam$hit. look at ur history, its all fights and conquring just like the turks. ur halfhuman barbaric country doesnt even have a culture of its own. cant u see muslim is ur culture??? and we all know what happens to a country's culture when muslims take over...

ONCE AGAIN THE ADMINS OF THIS FORUM ARE FAILING TO CLEAN ALL THE ANTI-ARMENIANISM!!!!

and what happens when the country turns into an Islamic theocracy.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

....Don't forget you're a guest here, and don't forget where your limits are.

You shouldn't forget what YOUR limits are; speak that way to enough Iranians and your new home will permanently be in Glendale. What I presented were historical facts and I am not intimidated by you in the slightest. Make sure you understand that Iranians are not Aliyevbaijanis by yourself before Iranians are put in the position of teaching you.

.a nation of 70 million, doesn't even have it's own alphabet.

We have several of our own alphabets - the Perso-Arabic alphabet was developed because of changes in religion; not because we couldn't return to our prior alphabets.

your religion was forced upon you.

We have several religions in Iran - Zoroastrianism is indigenous to Iran; Shia Islam is indigenous to Iran. Zoroastrianism is the historical precurser to all of the Abrahamic faiths, but I won't make the argument that you are a lesser person because you practice a derivative religion though your comment implies that conclusion should be reached.

where many undeserving idiots have it handed to them, where those who are actually worthy and work for something have difficulty achieving it, so too with Iran, as well as those stupid arab countries, they had good luck in their geographic location, with oil

Iran was created and defended by people with intellect and courage -- I do agree that the land now called "Armenia" was called "Perso-Armenia" and that it was "handed" by your "leaders" to other people and is now a fraction of it once was. Do you deny that? Who is the "undeserving idiot"? The one who retains his land or the one that does not know how to build and maintain alliances and gives land away? Though the Turks couldn't control of Armenian land under Persian leadership for centuries, Armenian and Russian *leaders* laid waste to most of Armenian land.

Don't forget how the brits and Americans F***Ked over your people and used them and stole all their oil.

I'll make Iranians remind you that they are aware their own history the next time they hand you your welfare check so you can turn the lights on. What percentage of Armenia would you say is owned outright or debt-leveraged by Russia? 90%? What will you sell next?

...it is like Turks saying Van and Kars is "historically Turkish"...never mind that turks arrived in the 12th century.

Actually it's not like that all - Iranians did not "arrive in the 12th century [like the Turks]" ... Armenians kept losing increasing amounts of land in Western Armenia and we let them move to Perso-Armenia and erratic behavior like yours screwed that up too.

Do you really want to move back home? Let me give you directions: