Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

[Armynia]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Armenia and Artsakh combined Armenians have enough place for additional 10 million people.


It is always good to remember the western Armenia and Armenian genocide, but lets just take care of what is left and make it batter place for our people in the first place.



Aeschylus:

From a small seed a mighty trunk may grow.

[Eddo211]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

The way to Western Armenia is through the East.......for now we should ignore these games and take out and destroy Azerbaijan military weapons.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Liberation of Western Armenia, above all justice or moral duty factors, is an existential problem for the survival of what is left of Eastern Armenia.
Without an access to the open sea by Trabizon, or minimal strategical depth, by liberating the upper streams of the Arax river (Passen valley/Garin water and stretegic citadel), that is the fresh water resources we need to survive.... talking of futur is just not serious .
Population is hugely important, but yet not enough to ensure survival of a state.
It is much harder to exterminate 10 million encirceled than 3, but yet very possible....,and even that stated 10 million is not possible. Todays borders with today's neigbors, and geopolitical situation just can not permit that.
It is just a very rosy image....
It is possible to host and prosper 10 million in Honk Kong or Singapoor, on less than 1000 sq2 may be, but not in enciceled, undefendable, half amputated Eastern Armenia.

How can one compare the parcel of Eastern Armenia left, with its 42.000 sq2 with a 10 million strong, and similar size Belgium, while they host EU's capital and are encircled by 500 million friends, while we are encircled by an ocean of 100 million turks, and have no access to any commercial road, no natural reserve, and even air access is dependent from our eternal enemy's wish.

Do not forget, turkish mortars can reach Yerevan's southern suburbs at will...

So liberation of Western Armenia is the only option, if we are to survive in Eastern Armenia.
It is a very hard, seemingly impossible task, but yet the ONLY option.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

TURKEY'S WAR WITHIN

August 20, 2015

"People are getting weapons, preparing for urban war"

The price of weapons in Diyarbakir has soared in recent days, a
Kalashnikov rifle costs $2,000

BY DAVID KENNER

DIYARBAKIR, Turkey -- There's no such thing as a quiet night in this
southeastern city anymore. On an average night, residents say, police
fire tear gas at Kurdish protesters and mark their chests with the red
laser dots of sniper rifles; youths respond with firecrackers and sound
bombs. On a bad night, residents go to sleep to the sounds of both
sides exchanging gunfire and military helicopters buzzing overhead.

But some residents of Diyarbakir, the unofficial capital of the
country's Kurdish heartland, fear that the worst is yet to come.

"People are getting weapons, preparing for urban war," said Brusk,
34, a prematurely gray-haired café owner in Diyarbakir. "They see
it as protection from Huda-Par [a Kurdish Sunni Islamist movement]
and other agents of the state."

The long-dormant conflict between Kurds and the Turkish state
has returned with a vengeance. According to a Turkish official,
39 Turkish police and soldiers have been killed in attacks by the
outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, which fought a three-decade
insurgency against the state but had been holding a cease-fire until
the current spasm of violence, in the past month. Turkey, meanwhile,
has also detained more than 1,000 Kurdish activists and begun a
fierce air campaign against the PKK's hideouts both inside Turkey
and in northern Iraq, launching hundreds of air sorties that Turkish
security officials claim have killed 390 PKK militants and wounded
hundreds more.

The violence has flared up during a critical political moment for
Turkey. Negotiations to form a coalition government collapsed on
Monday, seemingly paving the way for an early election. The Justice
and Development Party, or AKP, from which President Recep Tayyip
Erdogan hails, failed for the first time since it came to power to
win a majority of seats in the June parliamentary election -- in a
new vote, it will aim to regain its majority and form a single-party
government. AKP officials have signaled that the snap election could
be held in November.

Those in Diyarbakir hostile to the government accuse Erdogan of
purposefully reigniting the Kurdish conflict as a cynical political
ploy. They, along with some analysts, believe that Turkey's harsh
crackdown is a political strategy to win points among nationalist
voters who despise any form of self-determination for the Kurdish
minority. They believe that Erdogan is purposefully polarizing the
electorate around the Kurdish issue -- telling voters, essentially,
that they're either with him or with the terrorists.

"Until this early election, it is good for Erdogan if more women and
soldiers die," said Brusk."Until this early election, it is good for
Erdogan if more women and soldiers die," said Brusk.

Whatever sparked the current wave of violence, however, risks
unleashing forces that no politician can control. Several Diyarbakir
residents described how people in the city were increasingly arming
themselves against what they see as out-of-control security forces and
a government that uses the jihadis of the Islamic State and al-Nusra
Front, an affiliate of al Qaeda, as a cudgel against the Kurds.

Imam Tascier, a parliamentary deputy for the pro-Kurdish Peoples'
Democratic Party, or HDP, from Diyarbakir, acknowledged citizens'
increased desire to arm themselves. Residents, he said, were driven
by the fear not only of the government's security forces, but also
of the shadowy jihadi groups that they accuse the state of controlling.

"That's why people say they want to get weapons -- because, they
say, we don't know who is the enemy," he said. "Now there are many
[enemies]. But the final one responsible is the state."

The price of weapons in Diyarbakir has soared in recent days, Brusk
says. A Glock handgun that cost roughly $1,000 last year now costs
$3,000, while a Kalashnikov rifle costs $2,000 (less than the handgun
because it is harder to conceal, and anyone caught with such a weapon
faces a lengthy jail sentence).

As the elections draw closer, there are signs that this incipient
crisis might indeed be working to Erdogan's political advantage. Two
polls this month found that, if new elections were held immediately,
the AKP would garner enough support to form a single-party government.

Both polls suggest that the AKP would gain votes at the expense of the
HDP -- a surprising result following the past two months of violence
in the country's majority Kurdish regions. But for AKP officials,
it provides intellectual ammunition for their election strategy in
potential early elections.

Muhammed Akar, the AKP chairman in Diyarbakir, blamed his party's loss
in the June elections on the decision of religiously conservative
Kurds to vote for the HDP. These voters, he told Foreign Policy,
were essentially looking for stability -- they feared an outbreak of
violence if the HDP did not pass the crucial 10-percent barrier for
winning seats in parliament.

"Now I'm thinking that the religious Kurds who voted for the HDP
regret their vote," Akar said. "Because things didn't get better when
the HDP passed this election barrier -- sadly, they became worse."

And the solution to the current chaos, as Akar sees it, is to hand
power back to his party. "If the AKP was in power alone, nobody could
behave in this way," he said. "Nobody would have the courage to fight
against the state like this."

But Akar and the AKP are going to have a fight on their hands as they
try to win back their parliamentary majority. Their gains in the
recent polls have been slim -- well within the surveys' margins of
error -- and a great deal can change in the three months before the
likely vote. Meanwhile, Erdogan's rivals are also marshaling their
resources for the coming campaign.

"We are still in election mode," said Tascier. "On [June] 7, the
people went to the ballot box to vote. On the 8th, Erdogan indicated
that there would be an election. So we're ready."

If the violence continues, however, nobody may win this political
struggle in Turkey. Tascier, a Kurdish activist for four decades,
still has a birdshot pellet lodged in his neck from when armed men
sprayed him and two friends with gunfire in Diyarbakir in June 1993.

He blames the gendarmerie intelligence unit known as JITEM, which was
notorious for conducting extrajudicial executions during the height
of the conflict with the Kurds in the 1990s, for the attack.

The incident is just one of many cautionary tales of how the surging
violence could just as easily fragment the country, rather than
unite it around any political party. During the wave of violence in
the 1990s, the conflict between the state and the PKK morphed into a
war that dragged in a bewildering array of state and criminal actors
operating above the law. JITEM operated as such a force, while the
interior minister hired an ultra-right-wing contract killer to do his
dirty work. On the other side of the conflict, the PKK turned to the
drug trade to finance itself, becoming entangled with international
criminal networks and spawning splinter groups that attacked tourist
destinations even as the PKK tried to adhere to a cease-fire.

The increasing weapons sales in Diyarbakir are one sign that the
renewed conflict already threatens to drag in new actors. But if the
conflict spirals out of control this time, residents and HDP officials
in Diyarbakir agree, it will be even bloodier than in the past. The
Kurds are now more organized than before and can call on support from
Kurdish forces in Iraq and Syria that are vastly stronger than they
were in the 1990s

"The Kurds are not the same Kurds as in the 1990s," said Tascier.

"They are not afraid, and they will keep their calm until they can
keep it no longer.... Because people know that if there's a war,
it's going to be everywhere in Turkey."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/17/turkeys-war-within-kurds-election-erdogan-pkk/

[Vrej1915]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

HPG: 13 soldiers killed in actions in memory of Ekin Van
HPG (People's Defense Forces) Press Office said that HPG-YJA Star guerrillas continued their effective actions in response to the ongoing operations and attacks by Turkish forces in Kurdistan.
Thursday, August 20, 2015

BEHDINAN - ANF

HPG (People's Defense Forces) Press Office said in a written statement that HPG-YJA Star guerrillas continued their effective actions in response to the ongoing operations and attacks by Turkish forces in Kurdistan.

HPG listed the following actions conducted by guerrillas in North Kurdistan;

Guerrillas carried out a sabotage action in memory of the recently martyred YJA Star guerrilla Ekin Van on the road between Şirvan and Pervari districts of Siirt at 14:10 on August 19. Guerrillas destroyed a large military vehicle, which left 12 soldiers dead and three others heavily wounded. While Cobra helicopters shelled the scene after the action, troops launched an operation in Şirvan and Deleman areas with the participation of village guards.

In an attempt for another action in memory of Ekin Van, YJA Star guerrillas were engaged in clashes with Turkish soldiers on Arıcak-Elazığ road at 05:00 on August 17. One specialist sergeant was killed and one village guard was wounded in the short-lasting clash.

Guerrillas conducted another action targeting the Verkalıt guard post in Baykan district of Siirt at 07:20 on August 20. One soldier was killed in an assassination action, and one other died after guerrillas destroyed an emplacement of heavy weapons in the post.

Guerrillas destroyed a base station located between the villages of Sevanê and Hawrê in Batman's Kozluk district at 00:45 on August 20.

In another action against Simer guard post in Kozluk at 16:15 on August 19, guerrillas killed a soldier in an assassination attack and destroyed an emplacement here. The number of soldiers' casualties couldn't be clarified.

Guerrillas infiltrated into a unit of Turkish soldiers preparing for an operation near Amed's Hani district at 13:00 on August 19. One soldier was killed here.

Turkish troops conducted an operation in Nêrduşa area between Yüksekova and Şemdinli districts of Hakkari at 15:00 on August 19. Guerrillas responded to the troops as they opened random fire on the area with heavy weapons.

As part of the Martyr Reşit Serdar Initiative, guerrillas conducted a sabotage action against two armored vehicles patrolling in Yeşildere neighborhood of Hakkari's Yüksekova district at 01:30 on August 19. One of the armored vehicles was completely destroyed but the number of casualties couldn't be made clear. Three ambulances came to the scene after the action and transported the casualties.

In another action as part of the Martyr Reşit Serdar Initiative, guerrillas targeted the Eriş and Bilican guard posts at the border to Zap region of Medya Defense Zones between 07.30–09.30 on August 19. One emplacement in Bilican guard post was completely destroyed in the action which was conducted with mortars. Troops at both posts shelled the surrounding areas after the action.

Guerrillas also targeted the Rubarok guard posts at the border to Avashin area and damaged the vehicles outside the main entrance gate at 12:00 on August 20.

A base station of two private GSM operators in Türkmen village of Ağrı's Bazid (Doğubayazıt) district was completely destroyed by guerrillas at 19:45 on August 19.

A short clash erupted between a group of guerrillas and a special operation team laying ambushes aroundn Şehidan hill in Ağrı's Tendürek area between 18:00 and 19:00 on August 19.

One soldier was killed in an assassination action by guerrillas who targeted the Dızê guard post in Hakkari at 21:45 on August 19.

A base station of three private GSM operators was destroyed by guerrillas in Bêkendê village of Siirt's Kurtalan district at 23:00 on August 19.

Dersim-Erzincan and Dersim-Ovacık roads remain under the control of guerrillas since August 17. Besides ID checks, guerrillas are also informing the people about the process.

TURKISH ARMY USED NAPALM BOMBS

HPG said napalm bombs were used in a bombardment conducted by Turkish jets on Martyr Gafur area between 17.00-17.30 on August 18.

[Armynia]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Liberation of Western Armenia, above all justice or moral duty factors, is an existential problem for the survival of what is left of Eastern Armenia.
Without an access to the open sea by Trabizon, or minimal strategical depth, by liberating the upper streams of the Arax river (Passen valley/Garin water and stretegic citadel), that is the fresh water resources we need to survive.... talking of futur is just not serious .
Population is hugely important, but yet not enough to ensure survival of a state.
It is much harder to exterminate 10 million encirceled than 3, but yet very possible....,and even that stated 10 million is not possible. Todays borders with today's neigbors, and geopolitical situation just can not permit that.
It is just a very rosy image....
It is possible to host and prosper 10 million in Honk Kong or Singapoor, on less than 1000 sq2 may be, but not in enciceled, undefendable, half amputated Eastern Armenia.

How can one compare the parcel of Eastern Armenia left, with its 42.000 sq2 with a 10 million strong, and similar size Belgium, while they host EU's capital and are encircled by 500 million friends, while we are encircled by an ocean of 100 million turks, and have no access to any commercial road, no natural reserve, and even air access is dependent from our eternal enemy's wish.

Do not forget, turkish mortars can reach Yerevan's southern suburbs at will...

So liberation of Western Armenia is the only option, if we are to survive in Eastern Armenia.
It is a very hard, seemingly impossible task, but yet the ONLY option.

At least we need to destroy Azerbaijani military in the first place than talk about Western Armenia!

[Artsakh]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

From 1902-1903, Kurdish attacks were at a minimum because they had paid dearly at the hands of Andranik for their past involvement in a primarily Turkish-Armenian conflict. In 1903, 23 cavalrymen from Karabakh under the command of Torgom, a revolutionary, arrived in Sassun undetected by Ottoman forces. They had traveled from Russian Armenia all the way to Sassun to aid their Turkish Armenian brothers against oppressive Ottoman rule. Torgom’s arrival brought many new faces onto the Armenian scene: Sebastatsi Murad (who was not Armenian, but a gypsy), Sebouh, and Keri. Torgom and his troops were well-dressed and well armed and increased the morale of the peasants of Sassun greatly. This cavalry unit became known as Mrrik (tempest). Torgom and his men will become more important in the future.

I stand corrected, Sebastaci Murad was not a Kurd, but a Gypsy.

However, Yezdi Kurds have always stood by our sides, during Bash Abaran, Sardarabat, to the Artsakh front.

[Artsakh]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Turkey to freeze anti-Armenian plans to avoid multi-front conflicts – Armenian analyst

In an interview with Tert.am, Head of the Modus Vivendi center Ara Papyan commented on Kurds declaring Turkey’s Dersim an autonomous region and spoke of consequences.


According to him, a number of analysts, including himself, are speaking of that. That is, time of disintegration of empires is coming. Turkey has found itself “between two or three fires” and has to freeze its anti-Armenian programs for a while not to war on several battlefields at a time.


Mr Papyan, Kurdish insurgents have declared Dersim an autonomous region and set checkpoints there. What will be the impact on Armenia in terms of security and, so to say, territorial claims?


To understand the phenomena we should take a wider view of things. I think is frozen process is simmering in the Middle East, which stemmed from World War I. This is disintegration of empires. At one moment, the process was interrupted because of the Russian revolution to resume in the Balkans in the 1990s. And it should be expected in the Middle East and Russia now. I think that, if establishing good-neighborly relations with neighbors fails, relations need to be established with organized societies – religious or ethnic groups – in the states in question.

Alevis constitute 70-80 percent of the Dersim population, with a dense Alevi population in the adjacent territories. And it is a question of 12-20 million people in Turkey.


I should also note that although Alevis are considered Shiites, many of them do not profess Islam. They consider themselves followers of a different religion because of essential differences. Moreover, Alevis have shown a much better attitude to Armenians and it is no coincidence that many more Armenians were saved in the Alevi-populated regions during the Armenian Genocide. We should also remember the Dersim massacre of 1938. In contrast to the Armenian Genocide, Turkey actually recognized the massacre and Recep Erdogan gave an apology. This all, with developing sense of national identity, is a new phenomenon. Will it lead to disintegration of Turkey and formation of new states – it is too early to speak of that. However, the fact is that it is a most serious process. And Dersim is not the only region. Numerous other Kurdish regions are being ravaged by hostilities. So we are entering a period of serious changes many, including myself, have for years spoken of.


When war operations got under way along the Turkey-Syria border at the end of July, you foresaw the start of difficult times for Turkey. So is the self-proclamation of Dersim a sign that your predictions are coming true?


It is, as a matter of fact, a phase of those difficult days, with Turkey being between the devil and the deep see. On the one hand, it faces [the ethnic] minorities internally; we call them minorities conventionally, because a dense population of 12, 15 or 20 million is far from being a minority; It’s a whole commune, let alone a nation as the Alevi community needs to be treated as a creed. It’s a powerful phenomenon. The other trouble is that the Islamists have started pressuring Turkey. So Turkey is facing blows by the Alevis from the left and the Islamists from the right. Plus, the West is shifting the emphasis on cooperation to Iran, a move that will undermine Turkey’s major significance.


We, the Armenians, will yet another time, find ourselves unprepared in face of the groundbreaking periods. Obviously, though, it is very important to be prepared for such moments. It is periods like this that open up an opportunity to solve different problems, including Armenia’s land issue. And this is where the Alevis could be allies for us, as it appears to be a big problem for Turkey. It isn’t as though it lessens Turkey’s chances for intervention. Let us not forget that Turkey has sunk in the West’s estimation as a NATO member country and an Islamic state without, at the same time, finding allies in the Islamic world. On the contrary, it has gained enemies. So I repeat, Turkey is going to face hard times. As to our possible advantages, it is linked to quite a lot of objective and subjective factors.


So should Turkey temporarily freeze such anti-Armenian strategic plans as the Turkey-Azerbaijan duo, Panturkism etc?


It should, because it isn’t easy to carry on a war or conflict on different fronts. And it’s not for every country, especially Turkey.


But if we approach the problem from the standpoint of the Armenian lands while Dersim and Alevis keep striving for independence, it is too early to speak about that. For them, however, it is advantageous to have Armenia as their neighbor, as that would open their way to the sea.


And what is all that likely to bring about inside Turkey? Is a war scenario possible? Turkey is not clearly going to wait in idleness. So what is the expected action?


A war, which is practically in progress. And Turkey even uses air equipment to suppress the rebels. But experience shows that a military pressure is not likely to solve the problem … So, what is Turkey going to do? To keep using pressure, annihilating and massacring people? But its chances to do that are becoming less and less, as there are powers interested in maintaining the domestic instability. Those are the forces that wouldn’t wish, for instance, the Iranian gas to reach the European market and become a rival to the Russian gas, i.e. - Gazprom. The Iraq-Syria route is now closed to keep Turkey in isolation; the other option is the Azerbaijan-Georgia route which may close at any moment in light of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. The next remaining option is the Armenia-Georgia [route]. So there are different conflict forces here.

http://www.tert.am/en/news/2015/08/21/Ara-papian/1769629

[Eddo211]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

At least we need to destroy Azerbaijani military in the first place than talk about Western Armenia!

You know why we can do it Vrej1915?
We fight to death for our lands
our backs are against a wall
We have the WILL
We have courage and the training and ability
Its not 1915

[Vrej1915]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

TURKEY ACCUSES BBC OF 'OPENLY SUPPORTING TERRORISM'

21.08.15

Turkey has accused the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) of
"openly supporting terrorism" by making "written and visual propaganda"
of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) during a broadcast on
Aug. 20, the Hurriyet Daily News reports.

"Such broadcasting about an organization which is listed as a terrorist
[organization] by many countries, particularly EU countries, is open
support for terrorism," the Turkish Foreign Ministry said Aug.

21.

The broadcast, which portrayed the PKK as "an innocent organization
struggling against another terrorist organization and encouraged
[people] to join the PKK, is not acceptable in any way," the ministry
said in a written official statement.

This is not the first time that Turkish authorities have targeted U.K.

media outlets' reporting on the PKK, which is listed as terrorist
organization by a large portion of the international community
including the European Union and the United States, in addition
to Turkey.

In 2005, then-Prime Minister Recep Erdogan harshly criticized the
BBC and Reuters for describing PKK members as militants and guerillas
instead of terrorists.

"Only in last one month, the PKK terrorist organization has slayed 64
people, wounded 350 persons, kidnapped 16 persons, sabotaged railways
and dams and attacked transportation infrastructure and vehicles,"
the ministry said, underlining that the BBC broadcast was "a concrete
indication and evidence that terrorist organizations have been
nourished by this irresponsible and hypocritical approach and support."

"The BBC is expected to apply its broadcasting policy, which it
followed in regards to IRA [the Irish Republican Army] which recently
launched a bomb attack against a police barracks in Northern Ireland,
to the PKK terrorist organization, too," the ministry said.

At the time, in response to Erdogan's criticism in 2005, the BBC said
taking into consideration the specific conditions of each incident,
it prefers to use more descriptive words such as "bombers, attackers,
armed people, kidnappers, rebels and militants" when reporting about
perpetrators of violent incidents.

The BBC also said it avoided using the term "terrorist" for the IRA,
for fear of sparking Catholic reactions in Ireland.

http://www.tert.am/en/news/2015/08/21/turkbbc/1769645