Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

[Mos]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

give me a for instance, because I can't imagine any scenario where Turks could possibly ally themselves with Armenians, or vica versa. Perhaps if aliens come down to earth like in that movie "independence day" and threatened the existance of both armenians and turks could i see them forming an alliance. other than that, i cant see it.

it's not about "trusting" the kurds. Why don't you think if it like this: we'll use the kurds to advantage. If it's against Turkish interests, then i support it. Turkey can't suppress the kurds eternally. One day theyll carve out a piece of "turkey" for their own.

As regards "Azerbaijan," "Azerbaijan" in and of itself is the equivalent of nothingness. The only reason "Azerbaijan" is of any significance is because it has the full, unconditional backing of Turkey, diplomatic and military. It is Turkey who is behind all of the provocations by the Azeri side, it is Turkey who has linked "establishment of diplomatic ties" to the "solution of Karabakh conflict favorable to Azerbaijan."

Why not just let Kurds and Turks kill themselves? The barbaric people deserve each other.

In my view helping the Kurds, might draw us in a deeper situation, and honestly I wouldn't want us to be doing business with them. Is an independent Kurdistan good for us? Possibly, but it is also possible they heed to Azeri/Turkish demands and interests and just be another anti-Armenian state. With their barbaric history of massacring innocent people - I wouldn't be surprised.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

You might wanna add east Kurdistan to that list too


Syrian President invites Kurdish parties for talks, report says

DAMASCUS, Syria, — Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, facing protests against his rule, has invited representatives from Kurdish parties for talks in a bid to win backing from Syria's restive Kurds, a Turkish news report said on Tuesday.

Assad invited representatives from 12 Kurdish parties, including the Turkey's outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party's (PKK) Syrian offshoot the Democratic Unity Party (PYD), the Milliyet daily reported. The parties accepted Assad's invitation, the report also said.

The Kurdish representatives are expected to propose the establishment of a Kurdish autonomous region near the border with Turkey during the meeting. It was not clear when the talks would take place.

Assad has been facing protests against his rule for nearly three months. Rights groups say about 1,000 people have been killed in a harsh crackdown by Syrian security forces to quell the unrest.
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad invites Kurdish parties for talks, report says.

In an effort to respond to the protesters' demands, Assad has promised reforms and announced an amnesty for political prisoners, including Kurdish activists held in the country's prisons. Assad has also promised Syrian citizenship for more than 500,000 stateless Kurds.

Nearly 2 million Kurds live in Syria, mainly in the north bordering Turkey and Iraqi Kurdistan region.

They comprise nine percent of the population and have long sought official recognition of the Kurdish language and their culture.

Future Movement advocates democracy and equal rights for Syria's one million Kurdish minority. The Kurdish language is not allowed to be taught in schools and tens of thousands of Kurds were denied citizenship after a 1960s census.

Freedom of expression remains tightly controlled in Syria, and security forces have sweeping powers of arrest and detention.

Kurds in Syria often speak Kurdish in public, unless all those present do not. Kurdish human rights activists are mistreated and persecuted. No political parties are allowed for any group,www.ekurd.netKurdish or otherwise.

Suppression of ethnic identity of Kurds in Syria include: various bans on the use of the Kurdish language; refusal to register children with Kurdish names; replacement of Kurdish place names with new names in Arabic; prohibition of businesses that do not have Arabic names; not permitting Kurdish private schools; and the prohibition of books and other materials written in Kurdish.

http://ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2011/6/syriakurd326.htm

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

For the record: I'm no fan of michael rubin...

Then why are you posting his Zionist propaganda? In the pay of Mossad are we? Or just an Israel-lover?

[Artsakh]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Turkey's Watershed Electionsby Michael Rubin • Jun 6, 2011 at 9:49 am
Cross-posted from Commentary: Contentions

http://www.michaelrubin.org/2011/06/turkey-watershed-elections

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Over the past nine years, Turkey's Justice and Development Party (AKP) has undermined Turkey's struggling democracy while building a virtual police state. Turks are afraid to talk on the phone; they assume their homes and offices are bugged; journalists can no longer report freely. At the same time, Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has steadily implemented an Islamist agenda. The AKP now says that it will rewrite the constitution, a move which would further undermine checks and balances and move Turkey further into autocracy.

It's against this backdrop that next week's elections in Turkey become so important. Finally, Europeans are starting to wake up to what has happened in Turkey. Too many diplomats and intellectuals accepted at face value the AKP's rhetoric that the Islamists represented democracy and the old secular order represented fascism. The secularists aren't great—rampant corruption and a dubious human rights record rightly tarnished their image, but the Islamists have been just as bad and far more cynical.

Retiring the military from any political guardianship role is a noble goal, but the AKP pursued it for cynical aims: Removing a constitutional check on the abuse of power without constructing a new, viable civilian mechanism to defend the constitution. Indeed, Erdogan's deputy prime minister Bulent Arinc famously threatened to dissolve the constitutional court as well if they didn't stop declaring the party's legislation unconstitutional. That State Department officials and journalists accepted Islamist declarations of democratic intent at face value, but treated secularists with disdain should give a pause for reflection and illustrated a great deal about the power of wishful thinking.

At any rate, it's a good sign that the mainstream media is beginning to recognize the danger that awaits Turkey should the AKP consolidate power. The Economist, long a cheerleader for the AKP, had declared, "The best way for Turks to promote democracy would be to vote against the ruling party."

Alas, the polls do not look good. Here are five. The AKP is the Islamist party, the CHP is the center-left secularist opposition, the MHP is the nationalist party, and the independents are mainly Kurds. It certainly looks like the AKP won't have much trouble getting re-elected. The question is whether the MHP will break the 10 percent threshold. The way the Turkish system works, every party must get above 10 percent to win seats in parliament. If they get less than 10 percent, their seats are re-allocated in a way that benefits the largest party. That's why back in 2002, the AKP was about to win 32 percent of the vote, but win an overwhelming majority in parliament. If the MHP doesn't make it, and if the CHP underperforms, there will be no stopping the AKP from cementing its transformation of Turkey.

[Artsakh]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

For the record: I'm no fan of michael rubin, and the idiot appearently doesn't know that Turkey has established no diplomatic ties with Armenia, but look at the essence of it. Turkey is proving itself as unreliable, and the pro-israel media is attacking it. Kurds are going to replace turkey as allies for israel in the middle east, and there's going to be a big reward for them in return.

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It's time for Turkey to end its occupation of Iraqi Kurdistanby Michael Rubin
The Kurdistan Tribune
May 28, 2011

http://www.michaelrubin.org/9680/turkey-occupation-iraqi-kurdistan

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Under the leadership of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and Foreign Minister Ahmet Davatoğlu, Turkey has pursued a policy of good relations with all its neighbors. Well, almost.

It has de-mined its border with Syria, tripled trade with Iran, established diplomatic relations with Armenia and reduced its military activities in the Aegean Sea in order to ameliorate Greece. Yet, while Ankara often rebuffs Western concerns about its increasingly warm relations with Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, and Hamas with reference to its desire to have no problems with its neighbors, Turkey inexplicably has taken no action to end its more than two decade-long occupation of Iraqi Kurdistan.

Certainly, Turkey withdrew its Peace Monitoring Force component from Erbil in 2004, years after the Kurdish civil war ended, but the Turks continue to maintain armed outposts and camps in Amadiya, Bamerne, Sheladiz and Kani Masi. Such a presence is an affront both to Iraqi sovereignty and to Iraqi Kurdistan.

Kurds should not let Turkish diplomats and politicians simply blame the Turkish military or "Deep State." Erdoğan and his allies have dominated Turkish politics long enough and have overruled Turkish military concerns elsewhere. Where there is a will, there is a way. Nor does the Kurdish terrorist threat Turkey cites justify maintaining bases: After all, Erdoğan has made clear in Gaza and elsewhere that cross-border terrorism does not justify military occupation.

Masud Barzani, president of the Kurdistan Region, does Iraqi Kurdistan no favors by staking a tough position in the Iraqi Kurdish media, but being quite conciliatory toward the Turks during his visits to Washington and Ankara. If the Kurdish leadership were to demand forcefully that Turkish forces leave Iraqi territory, they might find themselves successful. At the very least, they would remind the international community that Turkey is not the peacemaker it claims to be. Perhaps the call could be taken up by the significant Kurdish communities in Sweden, Germany, and elsewhere in Europe. If Turkey wishes to join Europe or simply have diplomatic credibility in the region, it must end its occupation in Iraqi Kurdistan now.

Related Topics: Iraq, Kurds, Turkey

[Artsakh]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

@Artsakh,

Should we collaborate with Turks if we have a temporary common interest? I don't understand how we cannot forget the betrayal of the Kurds for some meagre Turkish blood money. How can you trust them? How can you ensure that they won't stab you in the back like they did to your ancestors? What Iranians did or what Russians have maybe done with the Turks recently, cannot be compared to the Genocide of Armenians and the fact that Kurds physically participated in exterminating the Armenian population from its native homeland. I will always favour Kurds over Turks, but I will never support overtly supporting or trusting Kurds.

Of course Turkey is our biggest threat (next to Azerbaijan) but we shouldn't put ourselves in more danger because of that. Trust the Kurds is dangerous, and I have no doubt they will stab us in the back right after they have accomplished their own national goals. Let the Kurds and Turks go at each other, let the former genocidal buddies kill each other.

give me a for instance, because I can't imagine any scenario where Turks could possibly ally themselves with Armenians, or vica versa. Perhaps if aliens come down to earth like in that movie "independence day" and threatened the existance of both armenians and turks could i see them forming an alliance. other than that, i cant see it.

it's not about "trusting" the kurds. Why don't you think if it like this: we'll use the kurds to advantage. If it's against Turkish interests, then i support it. Turkey can't suppress the kurds eternally. One day theyll carve out a piece of "turkey" for their own.

As regards "Azerbaijan," "Azerbaijan" in and of itself is the equivalent of nothingness. The only reason "Azerbaijan" is of any significance is because it has the full, unconditional backing of Turkey, diplomatic and military. It is Turkey who is behind all of the provocations by the Azeri side, it is Turkey who has linked "establishment of diplomatic ties" to the "solution of Karabakh conflict favorable to Azerbaijan."

[Mos]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

@Artsakh,

Should we collaborate with Turks if we have a temporary common interest? I don't understand how we cannot forget the betrayal of the Kurds for some meagre Turkish blood money. How can you trust them? How can you ensure that they won't stab you in the back like they did to your ancestors? What Iranians did or what Russians have maybe done with the Turks recently, cannot be compared to the Genocide of Armenians and the fact that Kurds physically participated in exterminating the Armenian population from its native homeland. I will always favour Kurds over Turks, but I will never support overtly supporting or trusting Kurds.

Of course Turkey is our biggest threat (next to Azerbaijan) but we shouldn't put ourselves in more danger because of that. Trust the Kurds is dangerous, and I have no doubt they will stab us in the back right after they have accomplished their own national goals. Let the Kurds and Turks go at each other, let the former genocidal buddies kill each other.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

STOP IT!

This isn't a thread about the origins of Kurds or Armenians.

All you people who are saying the Kurds took part in the killings of Armenians, and therefore we shouldn't collaborate with them on any matters are emotional, immature, and politically naieve. Politics has always allowed for strange bedfellows, that's the nature of the dirty game of politics. If we follow your logic, we shouldn't have relations with the Iranians (who drove our compatriots like sheep from their homeland AND who still occupy historial armenian lands), we shouldn't deal with the Russians (who cut a deal with the Turks and sold off Historial Armenia along with Mount Ararat) and many more examples.

For those of you who can't understand the simple fact that Turkey is the greatest threat facing Armenia, and that that threat must be dealt a serious blow, then you have no idea about the dangers facing Armenia, then you are as naieve as dirty.
It is Turkey who is behind all the plans to isolate Armenia. It is Turkey's plan to suffocate and squeez Armenia through blockade.

Greek, Armenian and Kurdish lobbies have collaborated in their anti-Turkish activities in the US. The same can take place in battle to liberate lands. We have a common interest with the Kurds: territorial issues against the Turks. It doesn't matter that Kurds in the past took part iin the killing of Armenians. This is an immature argument that any serious person understand politics would laugh at. We don't love the kurds, neither are the kurds crazy about us, but for our own best sake, we've got no choice but to collaborate until the monster is taken out.

There's no need to remind you: it's turks occupying western Armenia today, NOT the Kurds. It's Turks waging and funding a denial campaign against the Armenian Genocide, NOT Kurds. In fact, Kurds have come out, appologized, and acknoweleged the Genocide.

Kurds are not a puppet. Kurds are a national and are guided by national interests just like any other. That their and the west's interests coincide does not mean they're puppets.

To the contrary. In the long-term, Kurds could proove to become serious allies. It is no secret that Iran has long term interests in the caucasus as it always has had throughout history. They ultimately hope to bring the caucasus under their authority, including Armenia, azerabijaan, and possibly georgia. Knowning that Iran does have such an interest in the region which is undeniable, sometime in the future current strategic partner iran may become a enemy.

politics changes all the time, you never know. But what is certain is that Turkey is a great threat, and that threat was be dealt a serious blow and minimized.

Finally someone that understands politics.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Yes, it's amazing what an absence of American bombs and missiles (but a plentyfull supply of American dollars) will do for the appearance of a city.

Erm, more like a very friendly investment law, and our business teams going around the world to attract investors.

[kurdman]

Re: Prospects of a Kurdish state and what it means for Armenia

Today we have a trade volume of $8 billion with Iran, tomorrow we might have a war...