Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

[Haykakan]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

Fair question and of course we know the answer.

What Vrej is raising, what has been the cost or price for this insurance policy.

When you insure your car or house the insurance company does not help itself to your spare tyre or the steering wheel as an example nor negotiate away part of your garden.

Also when we refer to the insurer, it carries the whole risk for a price.
It does not have any other benefits over above that price.
Nor does it have the right to negotiate with the opposing party at your expense.

It is important to be aware of the price/cost we have paid.
Also what premium we are expected to pay when the next demand comes in.

Lets not forget that the insurer is also benefiting from our purchased insurance policy.

.

What do you think a deductible is?

[Vrej1915]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

Total BS. According to Simon Vratzian, his repeated telegrams to London and Paris asking for help against Kemal's invasion were not answered. How were the British promoting the Armenian cause?
Kemal invaded and massacred armenians in Kilikya, right in front of French forces. Who was supporting Kemal? France or Russia?

How much did Soviet Russia help Kemal?
How much did Britain, France, Italy and USA help Kemal?

Remember , British, French, Italian and US warships outside Izmir with orders not to intervene, while Kemal murdered 100,000+ Greeks and Armenians in the city

What about the Crimean war? Who kept the Ottoman empire from collapsing? Britain and France

This article has as much BS as Vrej1915's anti-Russian rantings!

My Dear,
you have a big problem with chronology.
You reed a history book arabic style, or if wish, you look the film on reverse mode.
Put dates on your events, may be you will find something new ?

[lampron]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

And when, in 1920, the Ottoman Empire was finally collapsing, and the British were promoting the Greek and Armenian causes, the Russians came to the Turks’ rescue. Indeed, you have to wonder if Turkey would even exist without the help it received from Moscow then.

Complete BS!
Simon Vratzyan says his repeated telegrams to London and Paris asking for help against kemal's invasion were not answered. How were the British promoting the Armenian cause?
Kemal invaded Kilikya, massacring thousands of Armenians in front of French forces.

How much help did Soviet Russia give Kemal?

How much help did the British, French, Italians and US give Kemal?

Remember British,French, Italian and US warships stood outside Izmir with orders not to intervene, while Kemal murdered 100,000+ Greeks and Armenians in the city

What about the Crimean war? Who came to the rescue of the collpasing ottoman empire?

Who signed the Treaty of Lausanne?

[Haykakan]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

Complete BS!
Simon Vratzyan says his repeated telegrams to London and Paris asking for help against kemal's invasion were not answered. How were the British promoting the Armenian cause?
Kemal invaded Kilikya, massacring thousands of Armenians in front of French forces.

How much help did Soviet Russia give Kemal?

How much help did the British, French, Italians and US give Kemal?

Remember British,French, Italian and US warships stood outside Izmir with orders not to intervene, while Kemal murdered 100,000+ Greeks and Armenians in the city

What about the Crimean war? Who came to the rescue of the collpasing ottoman empire?

Who signed the Treaty of Lausanne?

Since when have facts convinced foreign agents to "change their minds"?

[lampron]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

In 1997, Stone left Oxford University to teach at the department of International Relations at Bilkent University, Ankara. In 2005 Stone transferred to Koc University, Istanbul. In 2007 he returned to Bilkent University to teach history. He also guest lectures at Bogazici University, Istanbul. Since moving to Turkey, Stone has been a frequent contributor to Cornucopia, a magazine about the history and culture of Turkey. In 2004, Stone took part in a letter exchange on the pages of the Times Literary Supplement, where he criticized Peter Balakian's 2003 book on the Armenian genocide The Burning Tigris, saying that Balakian "should stick to the poems."[9] In 2010, Stone published a book on Turkish history, from the 11th century to the present day, Turkey: A Short History.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Stone

the British were promoting the Greek and Armenian causes,

Just like the Brits are promoting the Armenian Causes today.

His job is to brainwash readers by removing historical events that don't correspond to his propaganda!

[Vrej1915]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

His job is to brainwash readers by removing historical events that don't correspond to his propaganda!

My Dear, I made a little, yet compelling research on google for you.
Feel free to fill the blanks.....

Brest Litovsk Armistice: 15 Dec 1917

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_between_Russia_and_the_Central_Powers

Armistice of Yerznka: 18 Dec 1917

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_of_Erzincan

Brest Litovsk: 3 MARCH 1918

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk

Sardarabad/Aparan/Gharakilissa: 21-29 of MAY 1918

Dissolution of the Traskovkaz Federatzia: 26 May 1918

Indépendance of First Armenian Republic: 28 May 1918, declared in Tiflis.

Batum: 4 June 1918

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Moscow_(1921)

Grec-Turkish war : begins in 15 May 1919

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919%E2%80%9322)

Soviet Russia is only ally of Kemal, helps build the resurrected modern Turkey from ashes..

Versaille: 28 June 1919

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

Sevres: 10 August 1920

Turkish and Soviet coordinated Invasion of Independent Armenia: 20 Sept 1920

Occupation of remaining Eastern part of First Armenian Republic, with soviet rules proclaimed: 29 Nov 1920

Battles of İnönü (December 1920 – March 1921) : Shift of France/Italy/UK in favor of Turkey, to reverse soviet alliance

Occupation of Kilikia: May 1920 to October 1921

Treaty of Moskoskwa: 16 March 1921

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Moscow_(1921)

Treaty of Kars: 13 October 1921

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Kars

Massacre of Zmyurnya: 14 Sept 1922

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_Smyrna

Lausanne: 24 July 1923

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lausanne

Alexandret : Sept 1938

[lampron]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

My Dear, I made a little, yet compelling research on google for you.
Feel free to fill the blanks.....

Brest Litovsk Armistice: 15 Dec 1917

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_between_Russia_and_the_Central_Powers

Armistice of Yerznka: 18 Dec 1917

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_of_Erzincan

Brest Litovsk: 3 MARCH 1918

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk

Sardarabad/Aparan/Gharakilissa: 21-29 of MAY 1918

Dissolution of the Traskovkaz Federatzia: 26 May 1918

Indépendance of First Armenian Republic: 28 May 1918, declared in Tiflis.

Batum: 4 June 1918

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Moscow_(1921)

Grec-Turkish war : begins in 15 May 1919

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919%E2%80%9322)

Soviet Russia is only ally of Kemal, helps build the resurrected modern Turkey from ashes..

Versaille: 28 June 1919

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

Sevres: 10 August 1920

Turkish and Soviet coordinated Invasion of Independent Armenia: 20 Sept 1920

Occupation of remaining Eastern part of First Armenian Republic, with soviet rules proclaimed: 29 Nov 1920

Battles of İnönü (December 1920 – March 1921) : Shift of France/Italy/UK in favor of Turkey, to reverse soviet alliance

Occupation of Kilikia: May 1920 to October 1921

Treaty of Moskoskwa: 16 March 1921

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Moscow_(1921)

Treaty of Kars: 13 October 1921

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Kars

Massacre of Zmyurnya: 14 Sept 1922

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_Smyrna

Lausanne: 24 July 1923

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lausanne

Alexandret : Sept 1938

Thank you, but this
Turkish and Soviet coordinated Invasion of Independent Armenia: 20 Sept 1920
is your interpretation. Your interpretation is wrong, see below wikipedia

Kemal invaded Armenia in the middle of September - Vratzian set telegrams to the British and French asking for help to stop Turkey, he did not mention Soviet Russia

Soviet Russian forces entered Armenia 2 months later when it was clear that Armenia would collapse.

Soviet Russia would not allow kemal to take more territory of the former Russian empire
wikipedia
At 2:30 in the morning of September 13, five battalions from the Turkish XV Army Corps crossed the Turkish-Armenian border and surprised the thinly spread and unprepared Armenian armies at Olti and Peniak (now Penek village in Şenkaya district). By dawn, Karabekir's forces had occupied Peniak, and the Armenians had suffered at least 200 casualties and been forced to retreat east towards Sarıkamış.[34] As neither the Allied powers nor Soviet Russia reacted to Turkish operations, on September 20 Kemal authorized Karabekir to push onwards and take Kars and Kağızman.
...........................
The Turks, headquartered in Alexandropol, presented the Armenians with an ultimatum which they were forced to accept. They followed it with a more radical demand which threatened the existence of Armenia as a viable entity. The Armenians at first rejected this demand, but when Karabekir's forces continued to advance, they had little choice but to capitulate.[36] On November 18, 1920, they concluded a cease-fire agreement.[10] During the war the Turkish Army carried out mass atrocities against Armenian civilians. These include mass rape and massacres with tens of thousands of civilians executed. Atrocities occurred in Kars and Alexandropol.[7][8][9]

As the terms of defeat were being negotiated between Karabekir and Armenian Foreign Minister Alexander Khatisyan, Joseph Stalin, on the command of Vladimir Lenin, ordered Grigoriy Ordzhonikidze to enter Armenia from Azerbaijan in order to establish a new pro-Bolshevik government in the country. On November 29, the Soviet Eleventh Army invaded Armenia at Karavansarai (present-day Ijevan).[36]

Fearing the capture of Yerevan and Echmiadzin by Turkish forces in the case that the Bolsheviks should not arrive, the Armenians signed the Treaty of Alexandropol on December 2, 1920 with Turkey.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

Thank you, but this
........nians signed the Treaty of Alexandropol on December 2, 1920 with Turkey.

Ever heard of armenian bolsheviks opening gates of Kars to turkish brothers? Alexandrpol people welcoming with rice turkish brothers??

Ever heard of Molotov-Ribentropp, and months delay of non coordinated nazi-soviet invasion? Soviet troops saving parts of Poland from nazi yoke, or the Balts??

You are recycling soviet era, soviet propaganda labeled history.

No modern, Independant era Armenian Academician will sign under this stupid soviet saving angels...

Ask Mr Ashod Melkonyan, director of History Departement of Armenian Academy, a state fonctioner, payed by state, that is in full russian leverage...

Just ask any normal academician.

I can name dozens, all normal academicians, with some balls, speak publically.
Those without balls will admit privately, will avoid the subject publically...

Go on, find a normal, post soviet era source signed by a normal academician.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

etc.......

[lampron]

Re: Russians will manage, what they do best: turn their friends into enemies....

Ever heard of armenian bolsheviks opening gates of Kars to turkish brothers? Alexandrpol people welcoming with rice turkish brothers??

I have heard about a people with a slave mentality who never learn any lessons, blaming Russians, bolsheviks and others, never taking any responsibility for their own disasters, proudly talking about their "survival", while millions have been brutally massacred

Were bolsheviks in charge of the Armenian army on September 13, 1920? Where is your evidence?
Or were Armenians completely useless at gathering intelligence to warn that an invasion was approaching?

Was it the bolsheviks to blame or was it the Armenian slave mentality, that depended 100% on the British and French for defending Armenian border with Turkey , instead of relying on their own Armenian forces?

The Armenian leaders in 1920 wanted to prove that they were 100% loyal to their new masters, the British and French. This is one of the reasons the bolsheviks became friendly to the Turks. That policy resulted in disaster

You are recycling soviet era, soviet propaganda labeled history.

You are the biggest propagandist here because you ignore everything in wikipedia and recycle your own BS