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Should Turkey compensate-your thoughts?

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  • #101
    Originally posted by Otto
    it is rightly fought for..we fought and took it from byzantine didnt we? everywhere we go we rightly fight for it....and when we loose it in a battle we dont fuss about it much...we are not making any noise just because we lost Mekka or somewhere else... we failed to protect those places and now they are rightly fought and lost...

    it is not that complicated..it is like playing "king of the hill"....
    Otto - I'm liking you less all the time. Lucky that I am an American - we can incinerate you if we don't like you. That would be Ok wouldn't it?

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    • #102
      if you care for my personal opinion there is always war on this planet..and as an American if you have interests in incinerating us for your own people then you should do... on the other hand thinking in this way doesnt mean i like war and killing people..i am comfortable here and being not that much of an idiot i like war only in computer games....

      i dont want to backfire you using indians, japan ,vietnam ,korea and iraq at that point... and i will not say anything about American way of giving democracy (incinerating iraqis just because of oil...it is ok by me..how about you? )... surprise surprise Americans are already incinerating people just because they like....

      i want to ask you that
      - how can you accept recogniton of Armenian Genocide by the countries that have their own genocide history just like us...i think that means if we were still powerfull then al off you would be silent at the moment ( this statement is purely my own and i am not trying to make you angry... just adding 2 and 2 together using my own maths and please tell me why my 4 is a wrong one)

      but honestly i know those wars will never end... i know Armenians arent a nation like us... but must be prepared to defend themselves at all times... if they were as i say maybe they wouldnt mourn for the loss of 1 and half million of their population...

      pls dont get me wrong i am really sorry for what happened and i realy hate to see how people seduce the subject.... but accepting the facts of the human nature doesnt make you barbarians like us...
      Last edited by Otto; 05-25-2005, 06:13 AM.

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      • #103
        Otto -

        I will not argue that all nations - such as even the US - are angels. However this is an open society where criticsim is tolerated and all of these issues are discussed and debated. The issue at hand is the criminal behaviours of your nation in the past and the perpetuation of such - through denial and advocation of untruths - even now to this very day. The evidence of the Genocide is overwhelming. It was a massive crime against humanity and specifically against the Armenains and other Christians of the Ottoman Empire - for no just cause save the elimination of undesireable elements within the nation. This was perpetuated by the CUP party consisting of xenophobic and racist ideology. The fact that Turkey and Turks of today cannot come to grips with this and instead perpetuate myths and untrue and exaggerated propagandistic charges and thus are a party to an ongoing genocidal effort is the issue here. Attempting to deflect this by making accusations that others are less then perfect is just another means of dodging responsibility. (funny - you are following your government's most recent declared plan of attack for those nations which recognize the Genocide)

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        • #104
          Originally posted by winoman
          In addition - modern Turkish national identity is pathologically based upon the idea of the geographic homland of the Turks being Anatolia that was (in the minds of Turks) rightly fought for and won against the machinations of the western Imperialist aggressors (and of course those land grabbing Christian minorities). .
          Only a couple of weeks ago you were making statements that Turkish national identity is pathologically based upon the idea of a greater Turkey, a unification of all Turkic nations. Now you are saying the exact opposite.

          if you think every Turk wakes up in the morning and worries incessantly throughout the day about his "national identity" then you are delusional. I doubt if anyone, anywhere, gives a thoughtabout his or her "national identity" more than a couple of time a week, if that.

          Every diaspora community will have its cess-pit creatures, full of their petty predjudices and age-old ethnic animocities, And if given a platform to stand upon they would willingly cause wars and the death of millions. (Such creatures were partially responsible for the wars in Iraq and in Kossovo). Most of the so-called Turks that frequented this board recently belonged to that category: first or second-generation "Turkish"-Americans (yuk!).

          Otto is not one of them because he actually lives in Turkey.
          Plenipotentiary meow!

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          • #105
            Originally posted by winoman
            Otto - I'm liking you less all the time. Lucky that I am an American - we can incinerate you if we don't like you. That would be Ok wouldn't it?
            And as an American you would.

            Turkey's crimes are in the hundreds, and are mostly in the past. America's are in the thousands,and are as much in the present and future as the past.

            If it were America, and not Turkey, that had committed the Armenian Genocide what difference would you really think there would be today, except for lots of Hollywood films about poor American GIs forced to deal with the psychological damage of killing all those Armenians.
            Plenipotentiary meow!

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            • #106
              Winoman did i ever said anything like " everybody else is doing it so why cant we?"

              pls re-read it
              what i meant to ask is you are in a country that has a incinerating habit and how that makes you feel ( too bad there are no indians left asking for apology)

              you can point your finger to me that i killed a lot of people... but you are holding hands with thosew whose history is as dirty as mine... dont you wanna wash your hands?

              this was an easy way to evade my question and i know you can do better...

              you know i already agree with you about crimes of my country...
              Last edited by Otto; 05-25-2005, 09:56 AM.

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              • #107
                Otto you are mistaken - there still are Native Americans here - and in fact I have on ongoing (Ok intermitent...) dialoge going with an Oneida who resigned from the employ of the new American Indian Heritage Musuem charging whitewash of Genocide. Additionally he is currently involved in an effort to rectify the awarding of medals for US Army personal for the massacre at wounded knee. He also has been involved in other related efforts. He told me how he had once been invited by an Armenian radio talk show to speak on his efforts but declined as he didn't really know anything about Armenians - well that has since changed and he since meeting me he now regrets not having gone on the show. So yes - i am aware and involved in some of these things.

                Additionally I have acknowledged this history prior to your comming to this forum.

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                • #108
                  please excuse winoman after a few drinks he can't stop writing.

                  Comment

                  • #109
                    Originally posted by bell-the-cat
                    Only a couple of weeks ago you were making statements that Turkish national identity is pathologically based upon the idea of a greater Turkey, a unification of all Turkic nations. Now you are saying the exact opposite.
                    no doubt you are because your reading comprehension seems a bit off - unless perhaps it is just deliberate misrepresentation of what I had written...

                    I never claimed that Pan-Turanism was the prevelant Turkish national identity....only that it was increasingly comming back into vogue among the Turkish elite after having been surpressed due to circumstances (Turks outside of Turkey firmly under the control of Russia, China and others) - but since the fall of the SU efforts were being made and a broader racial awareness among the Turks has been growing. I am not the only one to see this and report on it. Ackam is saying many of the same things I notice...

                    Also there is perhaps a distinction among what the Turkish elites (and Ataturk) were forced to settle with and their underlying aspirations and dreams. Still the National identity of the Turkish state is heavily tied to the idea of Anatolia as the Turkish homeland and that its borders are sacrosanct.

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                    • #110
                      ok if you say there are then be it... if i am wrong then i accept that but somehow i am not totaly satisfied....

                      this pan turanism thing is not on the rise i tell you... i am here.... it is about sharing resources and making money... and also Greeks have those helenic dreams but i never met a Turk who is saying we should take back our lost lands..we do not desire being a big empire...(at the moment lol)

                      but nationalism on the rise thats right

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