Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

If this agreement is going to make us lose kharabagh then why would the Azeris be pissed at Turckey? If they close the border then this agreement is null and void,

My point in fact was just this as you read above but it isn't sinking into you so I'll say it again. You cannot trust turkey. turkey is already pledging the "azeris" to give back Artsakh. Do I have to say it again? Londontsi just put it out yesterday two sentences from the protocols that the integrity of their country (turkey) must be accepted in the protocols by Armenia. Also Armenia must not put their nose into other country's business; meaning "azerbaijan's" integrity must be preserved and Armenia should not help Artsakh against the integrity of made up baloney stolen name from Iran "azerbaijan".

After your Serje signed the protocols, you have to wait and see whether they will open the borders or not. You of course hope that they'll open it, I on the other hand never wished that darn protocol be signed the way it was with the turks' pre-conditions. After that protocol has been amended then they could open the borders but without the pre-conditions.

[Davo88]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

The agreement in itself is not supposed to make us loose Karabagh, although many see that Karabagh is jeopardized because the protocols do not make any mention of the principle of auto-determination of nations, and also make mention of international borders and not only Turkish-Armenian ones.

Nevertheless, as you see today, Turkey is already imposing a new condition to the already humiliated Armenians. It wants us to hand in Karabagh before opening its borders. In my opinion, Azerbaijan is not really pissed at Turkey, neither is Turkey going against Azerbaijan's interests. It is simply an act that Azerbaijan is doing after the protocols in order to re-confirm Turkey's desire to help Azerbaijan in taking Karabagh from Armenians.

This is ridiculous. Before Turkey says anything about the withdrawal of Armenians from Karabagh, it should withdraw from Cyprus because its occupation of Cyprus is even less justified.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

We are niether closer nor further away from getting western Armenia now then we were a week ago. If anyone thinks we were anywhere near close they would be more dilusional then anything else. I was having khorovats and drinking with a bunch of armenian guys on saturday night in the cool october air and i found out three of the guys were kharabagh vets. I asked their opinion on the border openings and they were all very optimistic stating that it could bring great benefits if turckey opened the borders and kept them open. The agreement has been signed and the powers of today will demand that turckey open the border. The opening of the border will force the Azeris to be more flexible at the nagotiating table and a agreement on kharabagh is not to far away anymore.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I'm serious right now Armenia is playing the part of a handicap,
it's nothing doing anything for crying out loud! I mean the Armenian
goverenment is just letting tukey boss them around, haven't they realised
that they can resist anything the turks are having us do? They showed
show our stance than azerbaijan lost the war, and we're not giving Karabakh
back, they showed also bring the topic of Western Armenia onto the table
also. As of now Armenia's stance looks like a slave being give orders by it's
master, but we should break free.

If any country is giving orders to Armenia it is Russia. Likewise, turkey is being ordered to to this by the anglo-american establishment in conjunction with the eu and Russia.

[Icy]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Exactly! It is difficult for me to understand that simple things such as this need to be explained on a dialy basis.

And to Anoush, how are we going to get Western Armenia back? I can assure you it will not be through international law. But I am open to other suggestions that you and others may have.

I'm serious right now Armenia is playing the part of a handicap,
it's nothing doing anything for crying out loud! I mean the Armenian
goverenment is just letting tukey boss them around, haven't they realised
that they can resist anything the turks are having us do? They showed
show our stance than azerbaijan lost the war, and we're not giving Karabakh
back, they showed also bring the topic of Western Armenia onto the table
also. As of now Armenia's stance looks like a slave being give orders by it's
master, but we should break free.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

If this agreement is going to make us lose kharabagh then why would the Azeris be pissed at Turckey? If they close the border then this agreement is null and void,

Exactly! It is difficult for me to understand that simple things such as this need to be explained on a daily basis.

And to Anoush, how are we going to get Western Armenia back? I can assure you it will not be through international law. But I am open to other suggestions that you and others may have.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

See? After turkey making sure that an agreement was signed to backup their illegal Lozanne Treaty to confirm their borders that are made up of stolen lands from us, the turks now are pledging to help the "azeris" recover our Artsakh... to give it back to them. This is what the protocols are all about, not to open the borders, but after 19 years when they indeed closed the borders, they made sure to put all these deadly pre-conditions for it. Who needs them? They can close the borders until one day we'll get back our Western Armenian lands back from them!

If this agreement is going to make us lose kharabagh then why would the Azeris be pissed at Turckey? If they close the border then this agreement is null and void,

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Azerbaijan bristles at Turkey after Armenia pact

11 October 2009, Sunday

AP BAKU

Azerbaijan has criticized the agreement between Turkey and Armenia saying it aggravates the dispute over its breakaway enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh.

The Azeri Foreign Ministry said Sunday that the agreement "clouds the spirit of brotherly relations" between Azerbaijan and Turkey. It said Turkey should not have re-established diplomatic ties with Armenia before the conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh was settled.

Azerbaijan and Turkey share cultural and linguistic ties, and Turkish leaders pledged earlier to help Azeris recover the enclave.

See? After turkey making sure that an agreement was signed to backup their illegal Lozanne Treaty to confirm their borders that are made up of stolen lands from us, the turks now are pledging to help the "azeris" recover our Artsakh... to give it back to them. This is what the protocols are all about, not to open the borders, but after 19 years when they indeed closed the borders, they made sure to put all these deadly pre-conditions for it. Who needs them? They can close the borders until one day we'll get back our Western Armenian lands back from them!

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

While i strongly agree that the diaspora should be getting more involved with Armenia in many ways, i think you overestimate its financial powers, there is no way it could possibly compete with russia to buy up infastructure or anything else it wants to buy, but the diaspora should clearly be way more involved then they are.

I wouldn't say that we've got 7 mil outside of Armenia and there also a lor of rich Armenians around the world. Now it's little to late to buy back this should have been done much sooner in the 90's. Now they can come and open a factory in stead of building a church. We need to make sure that our economy is in our hands and not foreign even if they are our allies.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I posted this on an other forum I'll post it here as well

I don't know if this is the right thread for it but what are we going to do about all of this? Haven't we(Armenian Nationalists) not learned enough from history to let it being repeated again?

in the 90's there was a perfect window of opportunity to take over the control of the country in the back round. What was needed nothing more than money. I'm not kidding you that's all that it needed to take over a country.

Let me tell you what I mean by that is when you control the economy pf the country you control the country it self. Why weren't people fro America doing what the Russians are doing today. Why are we letting the Russians take over our economy as a nation we can't have our economy being controlled by outsiders.

When you turn on the tv you see people talk about how bad things are, all those rich Armenians living in America. But where were they when they were needed and they could have taken the country.

Now what we need to do is stop this pointless bickering that is going on and start doing something. We can't do much about these protocols, how much we want to do we can't. it's all up to the president what is going to happen.

But what we must do is take over our country(not talking about a revolution), take over it's economy. Make sure that money is moving though the hands of nationalists Who don't only think about their pockets.

And I also see an opportunity in starting getting our lands back one way or an other. We haven't done anything to get those lands back. We talk about getting them back but we never do anything about it. We need to posses this land that is being occupied by our enemies. We need to go there and buy up land, houses, everything we can buy. I know it maybe sounds foolish but right now we can't do anything else.

So what we need to do is start buying parts of companies start investing i big companies little by little we'll gain ground and everything will grow as an snowball.

When I first heard the news I swore I would do everything in my power to destroy Turkey but I can't do it alone I need every nationalist to work towards that goal.

While i strongly agree that the diaspora should be getting more involved with Armenia in many ways, i think you overestimate its financial powers, there is no way it could possibly compete with russia to buy up infastructure or anything else it wants to buy, but the diaspora should clearly be way more involved then they are.