Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Mos]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I like the sign the grandfather is holding

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Armenians arrested in Turkey.

http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=23702

http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeniareport/report/en/2007/10/F0BA45D2-9484-4F58-BEF0-A35F7423E5C4.ASP

[skhara]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I think its shameful and embarrassing, that these people are there in the first place.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Armenian Terrorists at Work in U.S

Part-I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a1c_...eature=related

Part-II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6JQf...eature=related

Part-III: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bblzd...eature=related

Part-IV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tljTd...eature=related

[Virgil]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I think its shameful and embarrassing, that these people are there in the first place.

I agree with this statement, I know a Armenian that is from Turkey, today she told a fellow friend, "I am going home to Istanbul", are these people retarded? How can you call Istanbul your home?

[TomServo]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I agree with this statement, I know a Armenian that is from Turkey, today she told a fellow friend, "I am going home to Istanbul", are these people retarded? How can you call Istanbul your home?

Most of them are the descendants of Armenians who had migrated from the Armenian homeland in Anatolia and the Caucasus. Many Armenians from Erivan and Karabakh moved further west because of the genocidal Kurds and Safavids (where there were just more Kurds and Ottoman Turks). I suppose it is understandable that under the tyrannical Ottoman empire they chose to move to the safest possible place - the capital.

[Virgil]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Most of them are the descendants of Armenians who had migrated from the Armenian homeland in Anatolia and the Caucasus. Many Armenians from Erivan and Karabakh moved further west because of the genocidal Kurds and Safavids (where there were just more Kurds and Ottoman Turks). I suppose it is understandable that under the tyrannical Ottoman empire they chose to move to the safest possible place - the capital.

Yeah, I understand Tom, Armenians are displaced everywhere, but how can you live in Turkey knowing full well the reason you are displaced is the because of the very government that you pay taxes towards? It is life style I could not live and certainly would not want to pass over to the next generation, servitude under a government that tried to wipe out my ancestors, sorry, just not for me.

[Virgil]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Most of them are the descendants of Armenians who had migrated from the Armenian homeland in Anatolia and the Caucasus. Many Armenians from Erivan and Karabakh moved further west because of the genocidal Kurds and Safavids (where there were just more Kurds and Ottoman Turks). I suppose it is understandable that under the tyrannical Ottoman empire they chose to move to the safest possible place - the capital.

By the way, why do you make it a point to justify this? Sorry if this sounds "confrontational"...ok, let me ask you, honestly, does it make you proud or does it make you feel somehow "civilized" or "above it" to advocate this stance? I have noticed that among Armenians, they make it a point to defend Turkish-Armenians. I will be honest, when I run into a Turk in real life or on the boards, I feel belittled when they tell me "hey, you know Armenians live in Turkey, they are 'respected citizens'" or somthing along those lines, how are they respected citizens when the government represses them or are they being repressed at all? What is real story because I am hearing a double story, on one end these people claim that their identity is being repreased, you have Hrant Dink being assasinated, on the other hand, you have the patriarch of the Istanbul Armenian church walking hand in hand with Turkish diplomats, what is up with that? So which is it and why do they walk the fence? And don't say its "politics", because its not "politics", I see no point to them being there, what is the "political struggle" they are enduring? Repopulating Turkey with Armenians? Fighting genocide denial? Sorry, someone has to clarify this, Turks are making Armenians look like asses outside of Turkey, you people need to get your act together, either assimilate or move out, don't walk the fence, well, that is my opinion.

And this is the same with the majority of Armenians living into the Middle-East, what the xxxx are you doing there? Go to Armenia, its like 2 countries away, is Armenia really that bad? Is it worse than Iran and Lebannon or Syria? I don't get it, its mind boggling somtimes. I ask some Paskahye (Make Paskhahye into Lebenese Armenian, same example, not picking anyone), "hey, Paskahye xyz, why are you listening to Persian music and speaking Persian in America? Didn't you leave Iran under the pretense of being 'persecuted for your beleifs'"? I recall one older Paskahye gentlemen saying somthing along the lines that Iranians use to call Armenains "Sag Ermani" (Armenian dog in Persian) on a daily basis, now all of a sudden, when in the US, they embrace Persian culture more than the Armenian culture?

Understand I respect Middle-Easterners, but you have to consider two things here, in the Middle-East Armenians do not have it "easy", yeah, maybe for political reasons you try to say that these governments are "nice to Armenians", but lets not lie to ourselves here, you are Christian and they are Muslim, there exists HUGH prejudice overtones, so when you do come to a free and liberal society why embrace Persian, Turkish, and or Arabic culture? Are you guys really that deprived? Can someone explain this to me in a way where I can understand it because in Glendale and Watertown you have first generation Armenians think of themselves as more Middle-Easterner than Armenian, what is the deal? And do you agree with this? It is mind boggling sometimes, I don't get it.

[TomServo]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

And this is the same with the majority of Armenians living into the Middle-East, what the xxxx are you doing there? Go to Armenia, its like 2 countries away, is Armenia really that bad? Is it worse than Iran and Lebannon or Syria? I don't get it, its mind boggling somtimes. I ask some Paskahye (Make Paskhahye into Lebenese Armenian, same example, not picking anyone), "hey, Paskahye xyz, why are you listening to Persian music and speaking Persian in America? Didn't you leave Iran under the pretense of being 'persecuted for your beleifs'"? I recall one older Paskahye gentlemen saying somthing along the lines that Iranians use to call Armenains "Sag Ermani" (Armenian dog in Persian) on a daily basis, now all of a sudden, when in the US, they embrace Persian culture more than the Armenian culture?

Understand I respect Middle-Easterners, but you have to consider two things here, in the Middle-East Armenians do not have it "easy", yeah, maybe for political reasons you try to say that these governments are "nice to Armenians", but lets not lie to ourselves here, you are Christian and they are Muslim, there exists HUGH prejudice overtones, so when you do come to a free and liberal society why embrace Persian, Turkish, and or Arabic culture? Are you guys really that deprived? Can someone explain this to me in a way where I can understand it because in Glendale and Watertown you have first generation Armenians think of themselves as more Middle-Easterner than Armenian, what is the deal? And do you agree with this? It is mind boggling sometimes, I don't get it.

Because one Iranian Armenian told you he was mistreated doesn't mean that every Armenian there should leave. How about the mistreatment of Armenians in certain CIS countries (some have even been killed)? Why don't they move to Armenia? Is it that bad? Why don't the Armenians of Krasnodar (who have been there for centuries) pack up and leave before the Cossack nationalists strike again? They all speak Russian, so they shouldn't have any problems.

Before inviting Armenians from the Middle East, shouldn't the Armenian government try to stop so many people from emigrating? I'm not sure if Armenia can handle immigration from Iran, Lebanon or Syria today (as opposed to the Soviet period). Did you read about the Iraqi Armenian refugees in Hetq?

[Virgil]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Because one Iranian Armenian told you he was mistreated doesn't mean that every Armenian there should leave. How about the mistreatment of Armenians in certain CIS countries (some have even been killed)? Why don't they move to Armenia? Is it that bad? Why don't the Armenians of Krasnodar (who have been there for centuries) pack up and leave before the Cossack nationalists strike again? They all speak Russian, so they shouldn't have any problems.

You are abosolutly right, it does not make a difference where you are and does this not bother you? Think about it for a second, Armenians are treated like second class citizens, they are attacked on a daily basis, but they opt to stay as second class citizens, does not seem strange to you? It seems very strange to me. In some of the countries Armenians find themselves in the standard of living is worse than the standard of living in Armenia, does this not sound strange to you? I don't get it, you have Armenians that opt to live in the slums of some ass backwards third world country when they can have a much better lifestyle in Armenia.

Tom, listen bud, its not "one Iranian", you are misunderstanding the point, in Iran and else where in the Middle-East there exists a vast difference in treatment if you are of a different faith other then Iran, I know, I have realitives (And maybe you do, and maybe they are treated like sultans) that still live in Iran. For the most part they are out of harms way, but they live in a state of fear because on a constant basis muslim Iranians are investigating the actions of their Christians neighbors in order to implicate of breaking Islamic laws, they live in a state of fear. If you ask any Armenian from Iran how Iranians "really" view and treat them, most will tell you that in Iran Armenians are a second class citizen. Now, again, understand, I am not saying that "prejudice" and "racism", what ever, "biggotary", does not exists anywhere else and, certainly, this is not a attack on Iran, Iranians, the Middle-East, or Islam, I just want find it strange that you have Armenians willing to live in such conditions and when they do come to United States they still opt to partake in the cultural ways of the host nations they were previously from. Does this register with anyone on the boards? Are you really that ignorant to reality? And are you not offended or does it all not strike any emotions in you? For me I sometimes ponder about the situation and I don't understand it the reasons behind their actions unless...

Most Armenians have considered their "Armenian identity" as a suppliment identity, and in the grand scheme of things this make sense...

Before inviting Armenians from the Middle East, shouldn't the Armenian government try to stop so many people from emigrating? I'm not sure if Armenia can handle immigration from Iran, Lebanon or Syria today (as opposed to the Soviet period). Did you read about the Iraqi Armenian refugees in Hetq?

Tom, buddy, again, this goes back to my previous point, this is all connected, think it though, essentially, you want the Armenian government to stop emigration, but at the same time you have a co-view that "Diaspora can help Armenians", both views create a self fulling prophacy. I don't want to get into this and I read about the refugees in Hetq, but you are missing the point. At least let us agree here, do you think that by staying in Iraq, were those Armenians better off? And would they be able to maintain their idenity in the long run? And if supposing they could, don't you think it would have a been a harder move if they were to stay in Iraq and then on a later date move to Armenia? Ok, one last question...really, are you telling me that under Hussain they were better off versus living under Bobby's regime? Does this make sense to you? It sure as hell does not make sense to me, when my grandparents immigrated here from the Middle-East the last thing on their minds was to partake in "middle-eastern culture", but I am not seeing the same "mentality" nowadays, its scary, you live under religious oppression and you still opt to remain under the influences of these religious oppression (i.e. listening to Middle-Eastern music and partaking in Middle-Eastern culture) even when you are living in a secular state.

Going back to Turkey, do you honestly believe those Armenians are benefiting the "Armenian cause" staying in Turkey? And don't feel that it is at some level a insult to the Armenian people when because of them Turkey slaps "fair treatment" in the face of Armenians?

I have my VERY staunch personal opinions on this, but I don't want to share it at this time, I just want to see what you or other board members think about this, really, is this "normal"? Really think about it, are these actions normal considering the treatment of Armenians historically (i.e. you have Persian, Turkish, and Russian conquest)?