When we get East Anatolia back...

[Armenian]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

ուզումեմ ձեր ուշադրութիւնը գրավել հետեւյալ հեռուստատեսային ծրագրին: http://www.ars1910.org/arsjavakhkclip.htm

Եթէ Թիֆլիսի քաղաքականությունը ներկայիս հոսանքով շարունակվի Վրաստանի գոյությունը, իբր պետութիւն, կարջ է լինելու: Ես անձամբ գիդեմ որ որոշ ազգային մարմիններ լուրջ գործողութիւններ են կատարվում Ջավախքում:

[ArmenianKid]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

It's a real task to break down the barriers set up by years and years of being brainwashed by the American educational system and you know it's worked quite well when they actually volunteer to join the US Army. What's with that? Unfortunately the US educational system is completing the task of the AG. This kid is only marginally Armenian now and just about lost unless some serious intervention is done to stop the assimilation process.

I would hate to see what you need to do to be consitered Armenian. I don't see the point to question my character as a person because of the school system i went to (which if you knew anything about it totally anti-military and anti- bush) I joined because its my duty to give something back to my country. I have better things to do then xxxxx and whine about the US government and how evil it is.

Sad you call yourself the "Illuminator"

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

tired old bull xxxx how the "US" is evil. Yah US is evil .. whatever ... show me ONE goverment on the face of the earth that is any better.

The problem that most people have is that America is acting like an adolescent bully in her foreign affairs. If they just stick on their own business, I hardly believe anyone would really give a crap about the US.

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

I joined because its my duty to give something back to my country. I have better things to do then xxxxx and whine about the US government and how evil it is.

I thought that US soldiers are being paid for what they do. In other words, America has a professional army. Subsequently, since service is not mandatory, nobody is obliged nor it is anyone's ''duty'' to join the Army to show their ''patriotic'' feelings. You offer to the army and you get rewarded. It is a job.

Moreover, if I follow your premise then every teacher, farmer, lawyer, doctor and generally worker should constantly boast on what they offer to their country. The reality is that they are being paid for the services that they offer, just like the soldiers.

No offence by the way, you seem to be a good fellow.

[Sip]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

I thought that US soldiers are being paid for what they do. In other words, America has a professional army. Subsequently, since service is not mandatory, nobody is obliged nor it is anyone's ''duty'' to join the Army to show their ''patriotic'' feelings. You offer to the army and you get rewarded. It is a job.

That is true to some extent but at the same time, a lot of people join the military for very different reasons. Some join for the money, some join for the honor, some joint for the bragging rights and the ego boost, etc. But there are many that are actually very proud and definitely have a strong sense of duty to their country and people. Although the government and the leaders might be quite corrupt and not necessarily always have the best of intentions, the regular kids joining the military often have very honorable intentions. Also, as you said it is a volunteer "paid" army and the money definitley plays a role. But they are certainly not rolling in money after joining the armed forces so I don't think it is the main motivation most of the time.

[Կարմիր Բ]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

Sip. I suppose you are right when you state that there are some people who join the Army due to need to contribute to their country. In my opinion these group of people are those who could simply chose any other, less risky, proffesion which would also provide them more than what the Army provides for their living. But seriously, do you believe that most profesional soldiers, who engage in real battles, and have family back home, would do what they do if they knew they could get a job which would provide them more than what they earn in the military?

If I am not mistaken, most soldiers who engange in real battles are people from underdeveloped locations, far from being middle class peope. Don't you think that perhaps what stimulated their motives are the economic incentives that the military provides, if we take into acount that finding a secure job is difficult for this people? That the alternative is becoming a white collar worker?

[Sip]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

In addition to armenian forums, I hang out at a few truck and jeep related forums. I also meet up a lot of the "red state" (i.e. not exactly from Los Angeles, Chicago, or New York types of people out offroading in all the different parts of the US. I can tell you that there are a LOT of people in the US that are truely "good" and want to do good. They also have a lot of pride also (sometimes misplaced and bordering on being too nationalistic). They are also not necessarily super educated or well traveled.

Unfortunately what this means is that when their leaders stand up and tell them that there are "evil doers out there that want to hurt us", and use super tragic events like 9/11 to further dramatize their statements, these people actually start believing them. So a huge portion of the population for example is really under the impression that their sons and daughters are fighting against the terrorists that want to kill us over in Iraq.

Also, military training by its nature tends to have a certain level of brain washing that goes with it. How else do you expect to train soldiers that when the time comes, will be willing to march out in the middle of the battle and pull the trigger on possibly very civilian looking "enemies"?

So even though it might be that initially the pride and honor factor isn't the biggest thing getting the young kids to enlist, once they have gone through the training and the conditioning, they may end up having that strong sense of pride and duty.

In any case, I am kind of typing a lot conjecture and opinion here since I have never been involved in any sort of armed forces. But I was almost at that age growing up in Iran where I would have to join if we hadn't left. I can say comfortably that the US soldiers do NOT join up to "die" for their God or Allah like the Iranian kids might do. However, among the ones I see, there is a lot of pride, honor, and a "sense of duty" that does develop over time non the less.

[ArmenianKid]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

I didn't join the military for the job, i took a huge paycut to join the army. I was making 35,000 a year before, now i make less then 25,000.

So it wasn't for the great job that i joined

[ArmenianKid]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

Also, military training by its nature tends to have a certain level of brain washing that goes with it. How else do you expect to train soldiers that when the time comes, will be willing to march out in the middle of the battle and pull the trigger on possibly very civilian looking "enemies"?

So even though it might be that initially the pride and honor factor isn't the biggest thing getting the young kids to enlist, once they have gone through the training and the conditioning, they may end up having that strong sense of pride and duty.

In any case, I am kind of typing a lot conjecture and opinion here since I have never been involved in any sort of armed forces. But I was almost at that age growing up in Iran where I would have to join if we hadn't left. I can say comfortably that the US soldiers do NOT join up to "die" for their God or Allah like the Iranian kids might do. However, among the ones I see, there is a lot of pride, honor, and a "sense of duty" that does develop over time non the less.

The marines have a far share of brainwashing so i've heard. But the army doesn't. I don't think once in basic training that i heard the national anthem or really talked about the country at all. It was pretty much "get your training done to army standards and leave". They didn't really try to "break us" in anyway besides getting you to listen to orders of course.

I'm just proud of the fact that I did something not everyone can do.

[Sip]

Re: When we get East Anatolia back...

I'm just proud of the fact that I did something not everyone can do.

I have trouble getting up before noon.