Elections in Armenia

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Elections in Armenia

More American soldiers commit suicide then killed in combat - and this is during wartime so what is your point? Again and again you bring up issues which exist everywhere yet you try to imply that these are issues which only plague Armenia and armenians. I know you are aware of the fact that you are always bringing examples of problems which exist everywhere but you imply that these are "armenian problems". Why do you do this bell?

This might be a really horrible shock to you, so sit down and take the startling news: this is in a forum whose section is titled Armenian Discussions, and is in a subsection titled Armenian Politics, and is in a thread about Armenian Elections. If you want to discuss problems that exist everywhere, go discuss it elsewhere. Or do you want to appear to be like our resident off-topic poster with his Jooz and Glues?

You excuse for doing NOTHING about Armenia's ills basically goes like "everything is either completely out of our control, so we can't fix it, or is so specific to Armenia that it is not possible to fix it, or is found everywhere so why try to fix it". Is your response to dozens of people jumping off a bridge each year because their lives are so full of despair just an "it happens everywhere" shrug? Hundreds of thousands whose lives were so full of depair that they had to leave their country didn't leave because of a fear of Azeri bullets or any of your other reasons, they left because of the failed system you appear to want to maintain.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Elections in Armenia

POLITICAL TUG-OF-WAR IN ARMENIA

http://www.mirrorspectator.com/2013/04/04/political-tug-of-war-in-armenia/

EDITORIAL | APRIL 4, 2013 12:41 PM

By Edmond Y. Azadian

The outcome of the February 18 presidential election is still
in dispute. The founder and leader of the Heritage Party, Raffi
Hovannisian, continues to challenge the election results. To dramatize
his campaign, he has resorted to his traditional tactics, namely a
hunger strike.

For a long time, he was not clear on why he had chosen that particular
kind of protest, to what end or when he would end the hunger strike.

But finally, during Holy Week, he made it clear that his hunger strike
would end on Easter Sunday, when he would attend church services with
his family. Therefore, as we go to press, Mr. Hovannisian has resumed
his food intake to intensify his campaign.

His contention is that President Serge Sargisian's reelection was
flawed, therefore, he has to transfer power to Hovannisian, or rather
to "the people." He has equated himself with the people, which may
be interpreted in two ways: either he is very humble to claim victory
on behalf of the people or he is conceited enough to think he is the
only candidate who can speak on behalf of the people.

Politics abhors a vacuum. When former president Levon Ter-Petrosian's
HAK coalition lost its position as a viable opposition force, all of
the discontented groups rallied around Hovannisian.

As a populist politician, he is conducting a very flexible campaign,
having carefully studied the underlying reasons which led to
Ter-Petrosian's failure. The former president had cobbled together
a coalition of 18 discontented groups with different ideologies and
interests. He had rallied those groups around some maximalist demands.

The ultimate goal of HAK (Armenian National Congress) was to
"dismantle" the "kleptocracy." He never budged from his extremist
position. Additionally, his subordinates used abrasive language, while
he was continuing it in his professorial rhetoric. He has tolerated or
even encouraged his supporters in the media to poison the political
atmosphere to the point of no return. He did not allow any room for
rapprochement or compromise with the authorities, who continued to
ignore him, while undermining his coalition in an underhanded way.

Eventually HAK disintegrated and its die-hard disciplinarians were
rewarded with six seats in the 131member parliament to become a
negligible opposition faction.

On the other hand, Hovannisian has been conducting his campaign on
a more civilized level, some ultimatums not withstanding. He also
began with maximalist demands, asking the reelected president to show
up at Liberty Square - where he has set up shop - and turn over the
presidency to him.

He soon realized the satirical parameters to his demand and he
toned down his rhetoric; actually, he took the time to show up at
the presidential palace to have a very courteous exchange of ideas
with Sargisian.

It looks like the president's entourage has determined to kill the
opposition leader with kindness. Any aggressive demand is met by the
administration's very tolerant approach.

As a shrewd politician, Hovannisian realizes the president's
patronizing approach to his demands are playing into the hands of the
administration, especially in the eyes of the international political
community, for whom his public discourse seems to be intended.

Epistolary demands are being exchanged between the two parties. The
original demands of the Heritage leader - outright surrender of power
- are being watered down. The demand to open the ballot boxes for a
recount was presented after the deadline without legal due diligence
for which Hovannisian has apologized.

His demand for early parliamentary elections in a new format was turned
down. Also his demand to punish five regional governors was ignored.

He realized that his maximalist position has been eroding. Therefore,
he has already come to a turning point - either power surrender
or power sharing - and since the first alternative does not seem
realistic, he is opting for the second one.

The administration is well disposed to power sharing, but not on
the terms that the opposition has been demanding. It looks as if the
political power play is entering into a period of horse-trading, which
could wear down the parties and take the wind out of Hovannisian's
sails.

Throughout this game, Hovannisian is proving to be an effective
and prudent tactician, with his sights set on the next presidential
election, five years down the road.

In the meantime, upcoming Yerevan municipal elections will provide a
real opportunity for Mr. Hovannisian to make his mark on the political
scene, especially when five other parties will be clamoring for
victory in those elections.

Should the Heritage Party achieve some impressive results, Hovannisian
will stay a major player for the long haul.

Hovannisian empowered the young and educated masses. Even if he
cannot achieve his goal in the immediate future, he will be credited
with introducing a new political culture, which in time may yield
quantitative results.

He is also mindful of what degree of power sharing he may achieve.

Should he settle for some face-saving positions for himself and his
party members in Armenia's power structure, he will deny Armenia's
political system the benefit of credible opposition.

At this time, the tug-of-war is continuing, hopefully with some
positive outcome for Armenia.

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

More American soldiers commit suicide then killed in combat - and this is during wartime so what is your point? Again and again you bring up issues which exist everywhere yet you try to imply that these are issues which only plague Armenia and armenians. I know you are aware of the fact that you are always bringing examples of problems which exist everywhere but you imply that these are "armenian problems". Why do you do this bell?

More Armenians die by jumping from the Hrazdan gorge's "Suicide Bridges" than die from any front-line Azeri shooting.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Imagine sending a son you have spent 20 years raising off to the fron-not knowing if you will see him again.

More Armenians die by jumping from the Hrazdan gorge's "Suicide Bridges" than die from any front-line Azeri shooting.

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

While visiting Armenia once is hardly a base for the conclusions you have drawn-at least unlike most people on this forum you actually have set foot in Hayastan. Why is it insufficient to draw conclusions from one visit? Because the pace of change in Armenia is blinding fast (in Yerevan anyways). You would have a hard time recognizing the various parts of the city since your last visit. As for excuses -yes the government will at times use these excuses to cover up its own ineptitude and corruption but these excuses are very real and very serious problems which just by themselves are enough to topple many countries. The threat of war alone is huge-imagine that you are a parent (maybe you are a perant and dont need to imagine as much). Imagine sending a son you have spent 20 years raising off to the fron-not knowing if you will see him again. Imagine living next door to not one but two countries who just wait for the opportunity to kill everyone including you the first chance they get. Imagine being in a city as it is being shelled by artillery and not knowing if that last boom was the last thing you will ever hear. The blockade-imagine making 20 times less money then you now make while the price of everything you need increases. Imagine you have to fly to Detroit from LA but you can only fly west. Can all these issues be overcomed-sure i guess its possible-is this the kind of conditions you would expect any nation to flurish under? Hell no! So why your double standard for Armenia? What makes Armenia superhuman in you mind? The corruption you speak of exists not only in Armenia and Russia-wake up and smell the special interest groups. There is nothing shameful with Armenia nor its people. We have survived far longer then most civilizations and have endured far greater hardships along the way-not many nations can say these things. Armenia has a lot of problems and government corruption is just one of many of these problems.

Those are still just excuses. The blockade and threat of war make things difficult but not impossible. Nor does it justify the deeply entrenched culture of bribery and corruption. I haven't lived in Armenia but I visited during the Kocharian period and my views slowly started to change after that. Before my visit I was an Armenian flag-waving reactionary like Vahram.

I want what's best for Armenia and for the diaspora. Of course I understand that Armenia can't rely on its own military and has to have Russia defend its borders.* It's pretty shameful but I can understand why that's the way things are. That doesn't mean I can't criticize the Armenian or Russian government(s) and their political leaders. Or American political leaders, for that matter.

The reason I am not completely pessimistic about the closed borders is because of the IT field and information-based services, which the Armenian government has been investing in (with plenty of diasporan assistance, of course). It allows for a lot of business to be conducted over the Internet, thereby circumventing borders. I'm hoping that the generation being groomed by some of these new institutions (TUMO, Ayb) will bring about change and prosperity for all Armenians.

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

The blockade and threat of war make things difficult but not impossible

Now is that a back peddle? I mean from I don't believe to sure it is hard. I guess some of the glue must have worn off....ROTF!!!!

I haven't lived in Armenia but I visited during the Kocharian period and my views slowly started to change after that. Before my visit I was an Armenian flag-waving reactionary like Vahram.

Yes I agree, but the big difference was not going to Hayastan, the difference was in stating the glue sniffing habbit. As you have left a nation and a people and resorted to daydreams. After all if it was not for us flag waving people you had a very dismissive attitude, now in a few shot hours you have a different tune about the blockade now don't you? What changed your mind? Was it the glue wearing off or could you not run from facts any more, please don't tell me it was a combo deal! This is not in and out! ...LOL

You can't just sniff glue and order another hamburger because Raffie the pot smoking glue sniffing Mofo from L.A. did not get the votes that the Joo wanted him to get. After all we would have a glue sniffing Mofo from L.A. in charge of Armenia, what a waste of a nation that would be....( Crying in tears but laughing my arse off to put it another way, if I was not laughing this hard I would not be in such tears )...ROTFL

I want what's best for Armenia and for the diaspora. Of course I understand that Armenia can't rely on its own military and has to have Russia defend its borders.*

If only we could get you off the xxxx faster, perhaps then we would not have issues with one another. Just stay off the Sh!t kid!

That doesn't mean I can't criticize the Armenian or Russian government(s) and their political leaders. Or American political leaders, for that matter.

In a vacuum you can do what you want. But understand we are not in a vacuum of space you have geopolitical issues around you! This is a bit realistic then 2 hours ago!

The reason I am not completely pessimistic about the closed borders is because of the IT field and information-based services,

Ohh! IT! was it not an Armenian women who dug up the Armenian internet connection a year or so ago? We can print anything about Armenian in the Joo press, as long as it is negative. But that does not stop you from eating a cookie does it? After all if you want a cookie you have to pay! Don't you guys in L.A. know you have to pay for eating cookies?...LOL

I'm hoping that the generation being groomed by some of these new institutions (TUMO, Ayb) will bring about change and prosperity for all Armenians.

Well keep hoping son! 2 hours ago you did not believe in a blockade now you have things to preach? For the new ones? These new ones form L.A. are they all smoking glue like you?

[TomServo]

Re: Elections in Armenia

They do not have the same problems. You conveniently left out the threat of war to from you argument. Reading you posts would make people think that oligarchs do not exist in the west. I wonder how you would feel if you had a family in a country threatened by blockade, lack of resources and oh yeh WAR! I wonder if you lived in such a country that you would be saying the things you say now. Perspective can do a number on the way you think. Sure Armenia and her resources could and should be managed better but this is not even close to being as big a problem as the other factors i mentioned. Azeris and Russia do not have the same problems as Armenia. They do not have to worry about where they will get gas and oil. They do not have to worry about closed borders and airspace. Their enemies do not outnumber and outspend them like Armenia's enemies do. Again these are appples and oranges your comparing. "Armenia can still be an attractive place to live even with the blockade and lack of resources" sure i guess anything is possible-hey i could win the lottery this week but i would not count on such odds and i doubt you would either - so then why should the people of Armenia? Think Tom - think about what you are saying and implying and see if it is reasonable. You cannot compare Armenias situation to the Azeris and Russians there are HUGE differences here.

Those are still just excuses. The blockade and threat of war make things difficult but not impossible. Nor does it justify the deeply entrenched culture of bribery and corruption. I haven't lived in Armenia but I visited during the Kocharian period and my views slowly started to change after that. Before my visit I was an Armenian flag-waving reactionary like Vahram.

I want what's best for Armenia and for the diaspora. Of course I understand that Armenia can't rely on its own military and has to have Russia defend its borders.* It's pretty shameful but I can understand why that's the way things are. That doesn't mean I can't criticize the Armenian or Russian government(s) and their political leaders. Or American political leaders, for that matter.

The reason I am not completely pessimistic about the closed borders is because of the IT field and information-based services, which the Armenian government has been investing in (with plenty of diasporan assistance, of course). It allows for a lot of business to be conducted over the Internet, thereby circumventing borders. I'm hoping that the generation being groomed by some of these new institutions (TUMO, Ayb) will bring about change and prosperity for all Armenians.

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

They do not have the same problems. You conveniently left out the threat of war to from you argument. Reading you posts would make people think that oligarchs do not exist in the west. I wonder how you would feel if you had a family in a country threatened by blockade, lack of resources and oh yeh WAR! I wonder if you lived in such a country that you would be saying the things you say now. Perspective can do a number on the way you think. Sure Armenia and her resources could and should be managed better but this is not even close to being as big a problem as the other factors i mentioned. Azeris and Russia do not have the same problems as Armenia. They do not have to worry about where they will get gas and oil. They do not have to worry about closed borders and airspace. Their enemies do not outnumber and outspend them like Armenia's enemies do. Again these are appples and oranges your comparing. "Armenia can still be an attractive place to live even with the blockade and lack of resources" sure i guess anything is possible-hey i could win the lottery this week but i would not count on such odds and i doubt you would either - so then why should the people of Armenia? Think Tom - think about what you are saying and implying and see if it is reasonable. You cannot compare Armenias situation to the Azeris and Russians there are HUGE differences here.

So when you generalize about the diaspora it's okay but when I do it I am told that I have to compare oranges to oranges...

I will repeat it again: Armenia can still be an attractive place to live even with the blockade and lack of resources. And that it isn't is certainly the fault of the successive post-independence governments and the pervasive culture of bribery and corruption. If it makes you feel any better, it's not unique to Armenia. Even with their bountiful natural resources, Azerbaijan and Russia have the same problems because they have similar leaders and oligarchs.

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

So when you generalize about the diaspora it's okay but when I do it I am told that I have to compare oranges to oranges...

Did I or did I not say we were going to get another cheap one liner back? Guess the best you could do is keep doing what you are doing Tommy, as you only prove me right once more!

I will repeat it again

Since we are in the habit of repeating ourselves let me repeat myself yet again!

What happened to answering the question of the economic impact of the blockade? Are you still stalling? I guess so, when you stop stalling and answer this question I will stop asking it! Don’t make me repeat myself!...LOL Just go tell Friedman I told you to tell him to go feck himself!

Azerbaijan and Russia have the same problems because they have similar leaders and oligarchs.

Oh really? Who told you this Friedman?...LOL

Hey I don't want to be too repetitive but can you please answer a few question I have? I promise it will be short! What are you thoughts of Glue?

When you see a packet of glue do you feel anything?...LOL

Ok next question only a few more please be patient.

Question#2 what is your opinion of the lack of resources? Do you think this will have a marked impact on the production of glue. And if so what are you feelings about this?...LOL

Question#3 do you think the threat of war will affect the supply of glue, and if so what are your feelings about this?...LOL

Because if you think these questions will not be repeated over and over again you are sadly mistaken. Because the game is up, please spend some more time helping the pet find old posts! You seem to be good at that task, I hear that if you fetch 3 more posts that he will give you some glue!...LOL

[TomServo]

Re: Elections in Armenia

So when you generalize about the diaspora it's okay but when I do it I am told that I have to compare oranges to oranges...

I will repeat it again: Armenia can still be an attractive place to live even with the blockade and lack of resources. And that it isn't is certainly the fault of the successive post-independence governments and the pervasive culture of bribery and corruption. If it makes you feel any better, it's not unique to Armenia. Even with their bountiful natural resources, Azerbaijan and Russia have the same problems because they have similar leaders and oligarchs.