Elections in Armenia

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Elections in Armenia

What is more dangerous for Armenia then anything else is having people like this in the opposition!

What Vahram really thinks.

What is more dangerous for Armenia then anything else is having an opposition!

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

As President Serzh Sargsyan was taking his oath and assuming office at a special sitting of the National Assembly at the Karen Demirchyan Sports and Concert Complex, runner-up in the presidential elections, leader of the Heritage Party Raffi Hovhannisyan was holding an alternative inauguration ceremony at the Liberty Square.

This is getting beyond silly! What is more dangerous for Armenia then anything else is having people like this in the opposition!

http://www.armradio.am/en/2013/04/09/alternative-inauguration-at-the-liberty-square/

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

I demand to see the pics! LOL

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Seems that Serj's perverts, learning from their Azeri counterparts, have now resorted to placing hidden cameras in peoples bathrooms.


ARMENIAN-AMERICAN VOTE MONITOR 'BLACKMAILED' IN ELECTION FRAUD PROBE

http://asbarez.com/109182/armenian-american-vote-monitor-%E2%80%98blackmailed%E2%80%99-in-election-fraud-probe/

Tuesday, April 2nd, 2013

Narine Esmaeli

YEREVAN (RFE/RL)-An Armenian-American observer who claims to have
witnessed serious fraud in Armenia's recent presidential election on
Tuesday accused law-enforcement authorities in Yerevan of blackmailing
her with intimate photographs that were taken secretly.

Narine Esmaeli, who works for the Armenian branch of Transparency
International, monitored the February 18 election together with a
local observer at a polling station in Artashat, a town notorious for
electoral fraud and violence. They were part of a vote-monitoring group
set up by the Europe Union of Law, a Yerevan-based non-governmental
organization.

They say they were assaulted by a large group of government loyalists
that stuffed hundreds of ballots. Esmaeli has also accused local
police officers of bullying her after the incident.

The allegations picked up by Armenian opposition and civic groups
resulted in the launch of a criminal investigation by the Special
Investigative Service (SIS), a law-enforcement agency subordinate to
state prosecutors. They also led Armenia's Constitutional Court to
invalidate the official vote results in the troubled Artashat precinct.

Esmaeli claimed that the chief SIS investigator in the case, Gorik
Hovakimian, told her in a phone call on March 19 that the Transparency
International office in Yerevan has sent him intimate pictures of her
along with purported evidence of vote rigging in Artashat. "He said
that he wants to kindly return them to me," the 21-year-old woman
told RFE/RL's Armenian service (Azatutyun.am).

"I didn't go to pick up the photos because I don't care about them. It
was obvious that they will use them for blackmail," she said.

The SIS offered a different version of events, saying that it got hold
of a more than 5-hour-long footage taken in the bathroom of Esmaeli's
Yerevan apartment. In a written reply to RFE/RL's Armenian service
(Azatutyun.am), the law-enforcement body claimed that the video was
sent to the Central Election Commission by the Europe Union of Law.

Sona Ayvazian, deputy director of Transparency International's
Armenian branch, laughed off the SIS claims, saying that neither
her group nor the Europe Union of Law could have secretly filmed or
photographed Esmaeli.

"Either there is no such private material or the police themselves
secretly filmed it," Ayvazian said. "Narine's apartment is right next
to a police station and they could have filmed it. Such methods are
simply ridiculous in the modern world."

The allegations of blackmail appear to have been taken seriously by
the U.S. Embassy in Yerevan. U.S. Ambassador John Heffern met with
Esmaeli on March 21, two days after the alleged phone call from the
SIS investigator.

An embassy statement issued after the meeting said that Heffern
"will continue to monitor the case very closely." "The welfare of
United States citizens abroad remains the highest priority for the
United States government," added the statement.

Esmaeli and the SIS traded other accusations earlier in March. The
Armenian-American activist's lawyer, Tigran Yegorian, attempted to
record her interrogations by investigators after she accused them
of distorting her testimony written down by them. The SIS denounced
Yegorian's actions as illegal before asking Armenia's Chamber of
Advocates to take disciplinary action against the lawyer.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Thread is closed down for a nice cleaning up!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Cleared my inbox-i did not realize i had so many pms. I do not like to blame people for things they cannot control. The diasporans cannot be blamed for thinking like they do because that is what they grew up in. The same applies to hayastantsis because they are both products of their environments. What bothers me is when people do not listen to reason nor bother thinking about things but simply repeat what someone once told them without ever questioning it. We as human beings have heads which have brains. The brain is there for a reason. When i visit hayastan i like to talk to young people who show no shortage of liveliness and the desire to learn. They have misconceptions but i see it as my duty as their elder to educate them and make them aware of the misconceptions. Anytime you can get a young person to think you are doing something useful. I do the same here in the diaspora and there are plenty of good young people here as well. Both sides are filled with the misconceptions. pessimisms and the ignorence of their parents but you can make many of them think for themselves. Not all people want to think because it is hard and it leads to facing things perhaps dark things on a personal level. People will not listen to you if they do not respect you so you must earn respect and trust and then they will open up their hearts and their minds to you. It is hard at times to earn respect because our youngsters on both sides of the ocean are filled with terrible values and they may not value what you have to offer so it takes time. The one thing that everyone values is love-if you show that you care about the young people and their future then you will gain their respect regardless of what values they have been stamped with. Do not write off a whole generation we as a people cannot afford that.

[Hakob]

Re: Elections in Armenia

OK only if you finish who is on your list!

Please finish this list when you sober up!

Sober up?????
What do you mean, "Sober up".
I am sober. Are you?
I don't know what list are you talking about. But I was talking about generation that grew up under soviet sistem. I am not going to describe what that sistem did, everibody knows very well.
But the connection of what is happening in armenia, (I am talking about laziness, fraud, odaramolutyun, nonfunctioning society, elections and people who can't stop complaining about anything and everything), and the communist legacy, is our main problem.
And this is typical in all post soviet countries.
I think that we got as good of government as we are. Communizm was also our job.
People over there have to stop and take responcibility for their situation, and realise that any kind of revolution can only bring worse. Past ones show this clealry. When people change and start thinking of trying to be better person and make the best or achieve the best possible in any condition, with dignity, real values and respect, they will have better governments and living conditions. This is how the capitalism, which they wanted, works.
For 70 years there was nothing but government in anything. As an individual, you did not matter. Your actions, or values did not amount to anything for your situation. You could be working very hard or just sat and spent your days, your life would be the same.
Actually, the ones, who got into party and stole, lived much better and with more respect.
This is why, an Armenian citizen will sell his vote for $15, then go to Azatutyan Hraparak and protest elections, without reflecting that his actions are what makes the diffrence, not who is the president.
The change I want to see, needs generation to change.
Now Vahram jan, does this make a list?

[Hakob]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Haykakan jan,

I was very busy these few days so I wasn't able to read what was going on here but I caught up tonight. As always I enjoyed reading your last posts (and Siggie's hilarious post protecting her favourite pet), can you please clean up your inbox? I tried sending you a PM but it says that your inbox is full. I would like to receive your paper on the closed border.




Exactly! If there are going to be positive it has to come from within and it should come as a result of a natural evolution rather than a "barevolution". Revolutions won't help us, if anything we will be thrown back a few decades instead of advancing. How can I so confidently say this? Because I'm familiar (as you are) with the revolutions that swept across our region for the last decade (or even decades in the case of Iran) and the results they brought.

First of all the mentality of our people has to change as I have mentioned earlier. The mentality now in Armenia is that the government has to do all the work, the government is responsible for everything and anything and should provide for everyone. This just doesn't work with capitalism....I'll be the first one to acknowledge the shortcomings of our government or our President for that matter but to blame them for all the misfortunes befalling our people is very shortsighted to say the least.
These people who are so quick to complain about everything should first start by looking at themselves. Just an example, if you enter the appartment blocks in Yerevan most of the time you'll see a very dirty, broken down staircase with so much dust on it that you wouldn't think it would be possible to collect even if nobody touched it from the middle ages. Than you enter the house of one of the residents and it's as clean and new as it can get....now what I want to say with this example is that these people only feel responsibility when it concerns their own property. I mean how hard can it be to get together with some neighbours and decide that once a week one of them will just clean the dust from the staircases....or you have some streets with huge holes in the driveway right in front of their homes. How hard can it be to fill those holes with some sand or stones from the street? That doesn't even cost a thing, but nobody will care to take some action, no they'll wait for the government to take care of it even though it means that they have to drive around the hole everyday and the danger of their kids hurting themselves there while playing. I always remind myself of Kennedy's quote when I witness those things "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country".

I've witnessed this same egoism when discussing the situation in Armenia with people who are actually well of but are still dissatisfied and would even vote for levon to express their dissatisfaction. These people like I said were well off, they would even go on holidays for two or three times a year and I don't mean a cheap vacations in georgia or turkey. No, I mean holidays in Italy, Greece, Spain, France etc. but what I found out from my discussions with these people was that they actually didn't care for the country or their childrens future for that matter. The only thing that made them complain was that they weren't the ones driving the fancy Bentley's and Hummers or living in of those mansions in Yerevan. That was their only concern and their only reason for being dissatisfied. Though they wouldn't say this explicitly if you kept asking the right questions this would be your obvious conclusion.

But I'm sick and tired of these complaining idiots yes we have lot's of problems in Armenia and yes the goverment has failed in certain aspects but under the circumstances we are doing well and with a little effort by us all everything will turn out fine. Let's not forget that the government is only a reflection of its people lets change ourselves first before we demand a better government.




All raffik has are empty slogans and a team full of idiots. Luckily he hasn't been able to gather a large number of protesters, it's a very very small percentage of people that go out on the streets to support this charlatan. At this stage they are not dangerous to our national security but we have to prevent them from becoming bigger movements. I think that some pressure on the government is normal and should actually be welcomed since the government will be forced to work more efficiently but the pressure should come from genuine homegrown opposition parties and not by the likes of raffik.

Though raffik has criticised the U.S. for congratulating our President and it seems that the U.S. prefers our President (they always play both sides).
Its obvious that raffik carries a foreign agenda. He has repeatedly questioned our relationship with the Russian Federation.
He has repeatedly stated that we should demand the Russians to pay rent for the base in Gyumri. He is ignoring the fact that the only reason keeping our enemies from attacking is exactly because of the base in Gyumri, he ignores the fact that we receive "rent" by the weaponry we receive for cheap prices or even free of charge and also the gas that we buy at prices far below market-price. So is he really that blind to ignore these facts or does he just want to oust Russia (first starting by demanding rent and afterwards demand more and more and if they refuse ask them to leave) for other obvious reasons?

I'm going on too long and have spend more time here than I would like. All I wanted to say was that I enjoy reading your posts and if you have the time please delete some messages from your inbox.

Lernakan
I have the same thoughts, You are 100% right. You talk about things that brings discomfort, but is the thruth. It's painfull...
I was born there, i know. I had the same psichology. 33 years in USA, changed, opened up my eyes. Now, I try to tell the same thing, but it's very hard. People there just can't understand. This is a generation of 70 years communism. It has a twisted, flawed sence of individual civyl responcibility and morals. The sistem supressed it for so long that it mutated into unsatisfiable, ever hungry emptiness...
We must go. This generation must die out, dissapear. We, and our suffering should be living only in Armenian history books.
Hope that, some balanced new generation can replace us. Hope, that new generation will be able build over our ashes(which will stay toxic for long time).

[Lernakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Change based on solid planning with a focus on betterment of society will bring about good change.

Exactly! If there are going to be positive it has to come from within and it should come as a result of a natural evolution rather than a "barevolution". Revolutions won't help us, if anything we will be thrown back a few decades instead of advancing. How can I so confidently say this? Because I'm familiar (as you are) with the revolutions that swept across our region for the last decade (or even decades in the case of Iran) and the results they brought.

First of all the mentality of our people has to change as I have mentioned earlier. The mentality now in Armenia is that the government has to do all the work, the government is responsible for everything and anything and should provide for everyone. This just doesn't work with capitalism....I'll be the first one to acknowledge the shortcomings of our government or our President for that matter but to blame them for all the misfortunes befalling our people is very shortsighted to say the least.
These people who are so quick to complain about everything should first start by looking at themselves. Just an example, if you enter the appartment blocks in Yerevan most of the time you'll see a very dirty, broken down staircase with so much dust on it that you wouldn't think it would be possible to collect even if nobody touched it from the middle ages. Than you enter the house of one of the residents and it's as clean and new as it can get....now what I want to say with this example is that these people only feel responsibility when it concerns their own property. I mean how hard can it be to get together with some neighbours and decide that once a week one of them will just clean the dust from the staircases....or you have some streets with huge holes in the driveway right in front of their homes. How hard can it be to fill those holes with some sand or stones from the street? That doesn't even cost a thing, but nobody will care to take some action, no they'll wait for the government to take care of it even though it means that they have to drive around the hole everyday and the danger of their kids hurting themselves there while playing. I always remind myself of Kennedy's quote when I witness those things "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country".

I've witnessed this same egoism when discussing the situation in Armenia with people who are actually well of but are still dissatisfied and would even vote for levon to express their dissatisfaction. These people like I said were well off, they would even go on holidays for two or three times a year and I don't mean a cheap vacations in georgia or turkey. No, I mean holidays in Italy, Greece, Spain, France etc. but what I found out from my discussions with these people was that they actually didn't care for the country or their childrens future for that matter. The only thing that made them complain was that they weren't the ones driving the fancy Bentley's and Hummers or living in of those mansions in Yerevan. That was their only concern and their only reason for being dissatisfied. Though they wouldn't say this explicitly if you kept asking the right questions this would be your obvious conclusion.

But I'm sick and tired of these complaining idiots yes we have lot's of problems in Armenia and yes the goverment has failed in certain aspects but under the circumstances we are doing well and with a little effort by us all everything will turn out fine. Let's not forget that the government is only a reflection of its people lets change ourselves first before we demand a better government.

Even the most rabid supporters of Raffi cannot deny that he has no plan to build a nation nor to make peoples lives better off.

All raffik has are empty slogans and a team full of idiots. Luckily he hasn't been able to gather a large number of protesters, it's a very very small percentage of people that go out on the streets to support this charlatan. At this stage they are not dangerous to our national security but we have to prevent them from becoming bigger movements. I think that some pressure on the government is normal and should actually be welcomed since the government will be forced to work more efficiently but the pressure should come from genuine homegrown opposition parties and not by the likes of raffik.

Though raffik has criticised the U.S. for congratulating our President and it seems that the U.S. prefers our President (they always play both sides).
Its obvious that raffik carries a foreign agenda. He has repeatedly questioned our relationship with the Russian Federation.
He has repeatedly stated that we should demand the Russians to pay rent for the base in Gyumri. He is ignoring the fact that the only reason keeping our enemies from attacking is exactly because of the base in Gyumri, he ignores the fact that we receive "rent" by the weaponry we receive for cheap prices or even free of charge and also the gas that we buy at prices far below market-price. So is he really that blind to ignore these facts or does he just want to oust Russia (first starting by demanding rent and afterwards demand more and more and if they refuse ask them to leave) for other obvious reasons?

I'm going on too long and have spend more time here than I would like. All I wanted to say was that I enjoy reading your posts and if you have the time please delete some messages from your inbox.

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

I tire of the cat and the others who see only what they want to see or want you to see only what they want you to see. Never close your eyes and always stay vigilant because the attacks on the armenian nation are not imaginery nor are they forms of conspiracy theories dreamed up by paranoid delusional people. We have many powerful enemies who use various means to try and destroy us and this is a proven fact not paranoia. As for mr bell - just chek out his posts-he says we should forget about our history for it is not relevant anymore, he tries to discredit my arguments by posting quotes which i never made or uses them out of context (typical loser comebacks). As i have stated many times before - Armenia needs change it needs far greater change then diasporans or mr bell will be comfortable with but the kind of change the likes of Raffi bring to the table is empty, hollow at best and catastropic and dangersous at worst. If you want change then make it a real change which addresses real issues in a meaningfull way not by making retarded demands based on nothingness. People do not seem to realize that change can go either way-change can be good or bad. Change based on a loud mouth with no content or ideas will invariably bring change for the worst. Change based on solid planning with a focus on betterment of society will bring about good change. Even the most rabid supporters of Raffi cannot deny that he has no plan to build a nation nor to make peoples lives better off. There is nothing beyong screaming and ludicrous demands coming from his campaighn. If you think that the likes of Raffi are not dangerous then simply look at what happened in Georgia and Yukrain and ask if those people are better or worst off then they were before the colorful revolution brought on by western spies. These collor revolutions are bad but things can be far worst - just look at what is happening in Syria today. You think Syria would be tearing itself apart today if USA Turkey Isreal Saudi Arabia the Gulf States did not interfere with it? If you think this cannot happen in Armenia then you are dead wrong. People will fight one another not just on the bases of religion or race but political differences as well. This kind of change which tears the country to shreds we do not need-what we need is planing with the wellfair of society as its main goal. Just look at the track record of the western backed revolutions/overthrows etc.. Is Afganastan better off today then before the war? How about Iraq? How about Syria? The last i cheked Georgia lost a lot of land and the Yukranians got rid of the colorful leader imposed on them by the west because they were crooks. Just look at what is going on - just because it is western it does not mean that it is good. Those who have read my posts know well that i state that we have much to learn from the west and that i value many western ideals and consepts but this does not mean we should bend over everytime the west wants us to. Hey diasporans if it is change you want how about you buy a ticket and fly to Armenia for a change-how about you plan on doing something constructive for your people for a change- how about you forget about your cheap ass and let the guy selling you stuff in Armenia keep the change- change change change you sound like a xxxxin begger. You want change then go make the change but not the bs crap like full of hot air Raffi but meaningful change that actually does good for someone.