Elections in Armenia

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Watch the video..."yes asum em Kharabakh@ pti hanznenk azerbaidjancinerin"....is that anti-Artsakh enough for you? Do you see any negative reaction from the crowd when levon said such a thing?

Nothing you tell him, or show him, will have an effect on him. He lives in a 'different' Armenian world - one that is nationalistic, ideal, flawless, secure, comfortable and 'united' against the common enemy. I'm afraid Mr Federation suffers from psychosis in the form of utter denial - keeps eyes and ears shut and thinks all is well... This disorder, amongst many others, exists prominently within diasporan Armenians. Needless to say, denying that we have a serious problem within our nation won't make the problem in question go away, it will only make it worst. The fact is, there are significant numbers of treasonous whores in our nation and its our duty to speak up against them. Incidentally, what lead them to be treasonous whores is beyond the scope of our concerns at this point. Nevertheless, along with denial, Mr. Federation also expresses a painfully simple thought process - if lurking Turks see what we are writing about they will think we Armenians are not united, we don't care about Artsakh, so they will attack us, ect... It's almost cartoonish. Our nation is full of 'unique' characters, to say the least...

[Federation]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FJM6iZc03U0

Watch the video..."yes asum em Kharabakh@ pti hanznenk azerbaidjancinerin"....is that anti-Artsakh enough for you? Do you see any negative reaction from the crowd when levon said such a thing?

I don't know why you people are forcing me to defend a traitor like Levon, but his comments with regards to returning Karabakh on that clip has been modified. That's what his critics have been charging him of since the beginning of the election campaign, and LTP has denied it every step of the way. Had LTP actually made those statements, you can bet Armenian media, especially gov't run tv, would have played that over and over and over again.

For a minute, though, lets assume that the clip wasn't modified. What are you suggesting here? I want you to tell me. Are you suggesting a genocide to kill off tens of thousands of Hayastancy Armenians?

[Lernakan]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I don't know why you people are forcing me to defend a traitor like Levon, but his comments with regards to returning Karabakh on that clip has been modified.

How do you know it was modified? Have you seen the full speech? If so, could you please provide me with a link because I would like to see what he said.

For a minute, though, lets assume that the clip wasn't modified. What are you suggesting here? I want you to tell me. Are you suggesting a genocide to kill off tens of thousands of Hayastancy Armenians?

Of course not but I'm also of the opinion that there is a large minority in Armenia who don't care about Artsakh and Artsakhtsi's. I've heard a lot of negative comments by people in Yerevan about Artsakhtsi's and Artsakh. Things like:

- Artsakhtsi's are turks because they used to live with turks and have mixed with them.
- Armenia should be ruled by a Yerevanci not Artsakhtsi turks.
- Artsakh is not my homeland so why should we fight for it.
- Artsakhtsi's are criminals.

Although the majority of the people I spoke to did care about Artsakh and were not racist towards Artsakhtsi's there is still a large ignorant minority who dislike Artsakh and wouldn't care if the Artsakh conflict got settled in favor of Azerbaijan. You can say that that's not true but I'm telling you this from my own personal experience. Personally I don't care either where an Armenian is from and no I do not hate Hayastanci's, in fact most of my friends are Hayastanci's.

[Federation]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

How do you know it was modified? Have you seen the full speech? If so, could you please provide me with a link because I would like to see what he said.

It's been modified. Wouldn't Serj love to have his hands on something like that. Contact sevry2008 and ask him for the original.

Of course not but I'm also of the opinion that there is a large minority in Armenia who don't care about Artsakh and Artsakhtsi's. I've heard a lot of negative comments by people in Yerevan about Artsakhtsi's and Artsakh. Things like:

- Artsakhtsi's are turks because they used to live with turks and have mixed with them.
- Armenia should be ruled by a Yerevanci not Artsakhtsi turks.
- Artsakh is not my homeland so why should we fight for it.
- Artsakhtsi's are criminals.

Although the majority of the people I spoke to did care about Artsakh and were not racist towards Artsakhtsi's there is still a large ignorant minority who dislike Artsakh and wouldn't care if the Artsakh conflict got settled in favor of Azerbaijan. You can say that that's not true but I'm telling you this from my own personal experience. Personally I don't care either where an Armenian is from and no I do not hate Hayastanci's, in fact most of my friends are Hayastanci's.

You can't possible comprehend this "hayastancy-Artsakhcy" friction unless you understand basic human nature. I, personally, consider Artsakh Armenians to be THE most productive and patriotic Armenians of all. These people lived under the constant pressure of Azeri-Turks and have real-world experiences, unlike the Armenians of Armenia. And lets not forget the large number of generals and marshalls and heroes of the Soviet Union that Artsakh has produced.

With that said, you've gotta understand that Artsakh, for 70 years, was detached from Armenia. For 70 years, Artsakh did not constitute a part of Armenia. When Artsakhsis came to Armenia, they are viewed as not the same. Indeed, their part of the world and life experiences are very different. Same with diasporan Armenians who returned to Armenia during the Soviet years. They weren't viewed as equal, they were called "Axpar", and were discriminated against by the Native Hayastancy's. I have hayrenadarts neighbors who still cry over the fact they were called "Axpar" 20 some years ago. And if you open your eyes and look carefully, you can see that Artsakh Armenians aren't the only Armenians that Native Hayastancy's discriminate against today. Persian Armenians are also looked down upon because they manage many businesses in Yerevan and other cities. So the way the natives interpret this is "these outsiders are coming to our country and taking over our businesses and running our country (i.e in referrence to high ranking officials who are natives of Artsakh).

Such "discrimination" exists throughout the world and in all nations. Whereever you go, the native, dominant group will demand that you conform. And if you attempt to outdo the natives, you will be called all sorts of things.

The people's psychology on this matter is normal and understanble. They're mad at their circumstances-and blame all their problems on Artsakh Armenians because it's much easier that way-(Do you really want me to get into the specifics of these circumstances, or are you aware of what's going on in Armenia today?)

Nevertheless, certain forces, and most notorious of them all Levon Ter Petrosian's team, have attemped to exploit the people's moods. I do not blame our people, I blame the HHSh.

By repeating over and over "hayastancy's this, hayastancy's that, ....", you are doing any good. The way to counter such mentality is through nationalist propaganda.

And, what you are doing, in essence, is blaming our people. Such an approach is wrong. Blame who ever is exploiting the people's moods. Make them known. <Armenian> did a great job of exposing LTP for the pig he is, but when you blame the people, you're going too far.

[Lernakan]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Nevertheless, certain forces, and most notorious of them all Levon Ter Petrosian's team, have attemped to exploit the people's moods. I do not blame our people, I blame the HHSh.

I agree with that and that's what I've always said as well.

By repeating over and over "hayastancy's this, hayastancy's that, ....", you are doing any good. The way to counter such mentality is through nationalist propaganda.

I never do that. Like I told you before, most of my friends are Hayastanci's.

And, what you are doing, in essence, is blaming our people.

No i'm not, I'm just mentioning the fact that we have some national issues. We both know what the cause for that is but that doesn't make it any better. We shouldn't ignore this problem but instead recognize it before it becomes an even bigger problem.

[crusader1492]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I hope Robert Kocharian keeps up his offensive on exposing LTP for the traitor he is.

Ter-Petrosian is Exploiting Political Situation, Says Kocharian


YEREVAN (RFE/RL)--In his first public comments since leaving office, former President Robert Kocharian on Monday defended the governments need to respond with force to opposition protests and accused his predecessor of "immorally exploiting" Armenia's post election situation to stir continued political unrest.
In an interview with the Mediamax news agency, Kocharian explained as ridiculous Ter-Petrosian's claims that the March 1 violence in Yerevan was orchestrated by the government to suppress opposition street protests.
"Levon Ter-Petrosian and the ANM hungered for blood as a tool to continue the political struggle," he charged. "Ter-Petrosian did everything to provoke unrest and make the police use force."
Addressing hundreds of loyalists earlier this month, Ter-Petrosian denied that the clashes, which left at least ten people dead, were part of his plot to use the February 19 election for returning to power. He said Kocharian is chiefly responsible for what he called a "slaughter" of peaceful demonstrators.
"Only a weak-headed or a deeply immoral person may state that the authorities can deliberately plan the use of arms," countered Kocharian. He insisted that his administration was never interested in putting a bloody end to the country's post-election crisis and had no choice but to use force against thousands of Ter-Petrosian supporters who gathered outside the Yerevan mayor's office just hours after the break-up of their non-stop protest in the city's Liberty Square.
"The use of force by the authorities in such cases can only be a forced measure, which is to prevent grosser consequences," said Kocharian. "This is true especially for me, since I was the outgoing president then."
The Armenian authorities say security forces that tried to disperse the angry crowd were not only pelted with stones and Molotov xxxxtails but also came under gunfire. Two of the ten people killed in the clashes were interior troop servicemen. The authorities also point to the looting of several shops and burning of dozens of cars that followed the police retreat from one of the streets leading to the area.
The official version of events has been questioned by Armenia's human rights ombudsman, Armen Harutiunian, and international human rights organizations. In an extensive report issued late last month, Harutiunian said that the Armenian police have so far failed to publicize any evidence of the use of firearms by the protesters. None of several dozen Ter-Petrosian supporters arrested since March has been charged with firing at security forces.
According to Kocharian, this is so because "many important figures are still hiding from the investigation." "Attempts to cast doubts on the fact of the use of arms, whereas two policemen and soldiers were killed and 41 were wounded, are just foolish," he said.
Kocharian also insisted that Ter-Petrosian was not placed under de facto house arrest after riot police dispersed protesters in Liberty Square in the early morning of March 1. The opposition leader says that is the reason why he did not join the crowd that barricaded itself outside the mayor's office later in the day.
"He was clearly told that he could go wherever and whenever he wanted, but the participation of government appointed security officers [guarding Ter-Petrosian] in illegal rallies, which had grown into mass unrest, was impermissible," said Kocharian. "He could have released his security guards and joined the people who trusted him."
"The myth about house arrest is a justification of a coward who avoided responsibility," he added.

Monday, May 12, 2008

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Oh, and Mr. Kocharian never exploited the political situation. One oligarch calling another oligarch an exploiter.. hahaha.

[Gevork]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I hate Levon, but the current government is a piece of xxxx as well. Dont ge me wrong Levon is far worse, but we need change and we need change fast. The governement is locking up everyone who critisizes them including Artsakh war veterans and heroes

Why is Jirayr Sefilian in prison?

He is a war veteran, and war hero in Artsakh. I hate Levon, but our current government is a pieace of xxxx as well. They arest anyone who critisizes them.

http://oneworld.blogsome.com/2006/12/14/arrest-of-government-critic-on-coup-charges-prompts-concerns/

here is a youtube of him and his message

http://youtube.com/watch?v=P2tg2JkWa8c

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Bravo, Gevork. Yes, you can oppose the current RA government and LTP simultaneously.

Free Jirayr Sefilyan!!!

[crusader1492]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Oh, and Mr. Kocharian never exploited the political situation. One oligarch calling another oligarch an exploiter.. hahaha.

More intellectual dishonesty wrapped up in in obnoxiousness from the freak.

It is fitting that you compare Kocharian and LTP in in such glib terms...When will you admit that as imperfect as Kocharan may have been, he was 1000% better for Armenian than LTP?

...and if you can't admit that, then please just stop acting like such a schoolgirl b-itch. At least make an attempt to sound like you have a set of balls.