Elections in Armenia

[TomServo]

Re: Elections in Armenia

I refuse to believe a word you say

That's fine.

I didn't write the article, though.

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

I didn't write the article, though.

Dude I was poking fun at your earlier statement. Man we just don't have as many options as we wish. It is a shame we are not as well off as I would like. However we should not lose touch with reality. What is left of the homeland is a tinny little slice of land that is crammed up against a bunch of savages.

It is fine if you did not write the article, but we should not believe everything that is written! I'm not saying it is false, but I would not automatically say it is true. Simple fact is that while people like you have good intentions, there are many who don't. This toppling of governments is a Western trademark that has been very affectively used over and over again. The one place they have not been able to pull it off is Armenia. Let us fix our problems bro, but let us do it slow. Let us not flip the ship over to fix a leak!

We can't not believe that the blockade is not having an affect. We can say we should use our resources wisely, fine and true who can argue. But we are losing the scope, we are losing the capability to do anything about it. We should work with what we have, and if next time someone from Armenia or the diaspora runs for elections may he be the best man on the planet. Like it or not I never liked Serj! I know you think I'm making an excuses for the government but this is not the case. I hated his guts for even sitting down with toorks and signing the protocols. I respect the man because he did the politically correct thing and it worked out in our favor. Had that been me we would have been worse off! I had nothing against Raffi or anybody else. But this fake assignation attempt, the contacts with the British Embassy before the shooting. Raffi's antics with hunger strikes, I pick Serj. Again I did not like the man, but what else do we have? Let us regroup, let us find new leaders from our own midst and try again next time. Let us not plaster our image in the dirt for the enemies who print things in the media not to the benefit of the Armenian people but for a great geopolitical agenda. We have to start seeing the entire picture, aside from our own shortcomings. Sadly some of these shortcomings come from our own political parties running for president. This has been the most embarrassing election to date. We deserve better on all fronts, but let us not pick and chose to our liking what to bash and what to praise. We don't have much luxuries bro, it is sad, but it is true.

[Artashes]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Bro I'm not misunderstanding you, what I'm saying is that we should come up with some concepts if the ones presented are no good. We can't say no to everything and be stuck where we are and expect utopia! We have a global issues, governments have gone by the wayside. Look at Cyprus, a nation with banks, shipping oil and gas. They just robbed their own people to pay the likes of Goldman Sacks. We are not seeing realities nor are we coming up with any solutions besides blaming one entity for every problem we have. We should get money from someplace and be able to afford all the things we want. But under a blockade when you can't even ship manufactured goods because of the expense of air travel we can't sit back and blame Oligarchs. We are being silly and not understanding that the situation is not good globally let alone tinny Armenia.

Lets open the discussion to what should be done! It is easy to say no to every idea but we need to come up with ideas. I'm as guilt as anyone for not having some great idea to get us making money. But none of us here are coming up with any solution just crying like babies and trying to topple what little we have built in these 20 short and troubled years. From quake to blockade every issue can't simply be brushed aside. This is unreasonable! especially when no one else has the remotest of an idea of how to fix one thing, let alone everything!

Some incredibly good ideas .
When I first joined this club , I thought I'd be joining other Armenians seeking out our next best moves and how we could accomplish them . Instead I got this ( the sound of laughter & crying is coming from me ).
---- lets open a discussion to what should be done ----
Gotta be one of the best sentences I've seen on this forum .
Artashes

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Tom i think it is unfortunate but true that most diasporans think like you. You pick out the trash to represent the whole nation. Why do you do this? Have you seen the trash of the non hayastantsy diasporans? Why not compare oranges to oranges instead of apples to oranges? How can you support people who take time out to go and convene with foreign government agencies before deciding their next moves? Is this not enough proof that these people are empty inside? Is this not enough proof that they are serving someone elses will? You really thing diaspora should support sabatours and spies? Do you even believe the things you say?" I refuse to accept your argument that it is the blockade, lack of resources, and threat of war and not the oligarchy that is responsible for the current situation" are you serious? This last statement is proof of detachment from reality. How can anyone say war, lack of resources, and blockade are trumphed by oligarchy - especialy when all the capitalist nations have oligarchs but most do not have the other problems mentioned and they are doing better(somehwat better anyways)? I am not rying to make anyone look bad here but just think about what you posted-it doesn't even make any sense! Its like saying forget about the taliban, the USA invasion, the opium gangs, the muslim fundementalists, the lack of education, the russian invasion, the constant state of war..the real problem in afganistan are not these things but the corruption of the present government is the real issue. Would you really believe this statement to? Cmon man seriously- i doubt even you can read your own writing and conclude that it makes sense.

"Sniffing glue"? Do you really want to start comparing the behavior of diasporans and many of your compatriots in Los Angeles? You may choose to view the community with "rose-colored glasses" but the reality (like the reality in Armenia) is ugly.

This is what I meant when I said that there needs to be an honest examination of the failure of the postwar diasporan repatriation to Armenia. An Armenian government official (I believe it was the Minister of the Diaspora) apologized a few years back but that's not good enough. The diaspora can't serve as a cash-cow to a country whose inhabitants treat them and their concerns with such indifference (and in some cases, aversion). Fortunately, many diasporans have realized this, hence the increasing support for people like Hovannisian and Oskanian.

I refuse to accept your argument that it is the blockade, lack of resources, and threat of war and not the oligarchy that is responsible for the current situation. Armenia could still be an attractive place to live even with those barriers. You just don't want to examine the country's sundry problems and use the blockade and Turkey/Azerbaijan as excuses.

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Tom i think it is unfortunate but true that most diasporans think like you. You pick out the trash to represent the whole nation. Why do you do this?

How about all the Beuritzis? I'm ashamed to say but since we are all so open and liberal lets start flinging mud shell we?

Have you seen the trash of the non hayastantsy diasporans?

Like the ones sniffing glue?...LOL

Why not compare oranges to oranges instead of apples to oranges?

Very simple let me tell you why and I'm going to quote him! """""""" refuse to accept your argument that it is the blockade, lack of resources, and threat of war """"""""""""""

There is only so much reason that can be spoken to the unreasonable! Thomas Friedman and Bell love these guys! They are doing all the work for them! Pounding their chests from 3 thousand miles away of what our brothers should be doing in Armenia! The Hippo is out of the bag now!

How can you support people who take time out to go and convene with foreign government agencies before deciding their next moves?

So long as the republic can be sank, so long as the cat approves! Salt to salt ashes to ashes, and an Esh for an Esh! After all one donkey deserves another! Unless of course this is all part of the plan as this is the only thing making sense at this point.

Is this not enough proof that they are serving someone elses will?

Man why do you keep asking when the comeback is going to be " I refuse to believe " The guy is not a Raffi fan, he is a Freidman fan! Wait I mean they are both the same, what I mean is if you like Raffi then you love Friedman because Raffi is Freidmans right hand man! After all does he not have a Joo wife now? Another Der petrosian type, " How could you guys take more land back when I'm giving it all away" That's the type of guy he is, and Friedman loves him for it!

You really thing diaspora should support sabatours and spies?

Yes it is what he wants...when he is not busy fetching posts for the pet that is. Don't worry there will be short wise post back to all this, but I have a cure below!

"I refuse to accept your argument that it is the blockade, lack of resources, and threat of war and not the oligarchy that is responsible for the current situation" are you serious?"

He is serous, that is why there is no comeback to any points raised. Just like the pet! In fact this is the guy that went out of his way to go find old posts of the pet! How dare you even question this any more? The only thing to do is to repeat over and over the points raised without a response and continue to do so over and over again! Lets see how long this game lasts then!

[TomServo]

Re: Elections in Armenia

So when you generalize about the diaspora it's okay but when I do it I am told that I have to compare oranges to oranges...

I will repeat it again: Armenia can still be an attractive place to live even with the blockade and lack of resources. And that it isn't is certainly the fault of the successive post-independence governments and the pervasive culture of bribery and corruption. If it makes you feel any better, it's not unique to Armenia. Even with their bountiful natural resources, Azerbaijan and Russia have the same problems because they have similar leaders and oligarchs.

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

So when you generalize about the diaspora it's okay but when I do it I am told that I have to compare oranges to oranges...

Did I or did I not say we were going to get another cheap one liner back? Guess the best you could do is keep doing what you are doing Tommy, as you only prove me right once more!

I will repeat it again

Since we are in the habit of repeating ourselves let me repeat myself yet again!

What happened to answering the question of the economic impact of the blockade? Are you still stalling? I guess so, when you stop stalling and answer this question I will stop asking it! Don’t make me repeat myself!...LOL Just go tell Friedman I told you to tell him to go feck himself!

Azerbaijan and Russia have the same problems because they have similar leaders and oligarchs.

Oh really? Who told you this Friedman?...LOL

Hey I don't want to be too repetitive but can you please answer a few question I have? I promise it will be short! What are you thoughts of Glue?

When you see a packet of glue do you feel anything?...LOL

Ok next question only a few more please be patient.

Question#2 what is your opinion of the lack of resources? Do you think this will have a marked impact on the production of glue. And if so what are you feelings about this?...LOL

Question#3 do you think the threat of war will affect the supply of glue, and if so what are your feelings about this?...LOL

Because if you think these questions will not be repeated over and over again you are sadly mistaken. Because the game is up, please spend some more time helping the pet find old posts! You seem to be good at that task, I hear that if you fetch 3 more posts that he will give you some glue!...LOL

[Haykakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

They do not have the same problems. You conveniently left out the threat of war to from you argument. Reading you posts would make people think that oligarchs do not exist in the west. I wonder how you would feel if you had a family in a country threatened by blockade, lack of resources and oh yeh WAR! I wonder if you lived in such a country that you would be saying the things you say now. Perspective can do a number on the way you think. Sure Armenia and her resources could and should be managed better but this is not even close to being as big a problem as the other factors i mentioned. Azeris and Russia do not have the same problems as Armenia. They do not have to worry about where they will get gas and oil. They do not have to worry about closed borders and airspace. Their enemies do not outnumber and outspend them like Armenia's enemies do. Again these are appples and oranges your comparing. "Armenia can still be an attractive place to live even with the blockade and lack of resources" sure i guess anything is possible-hey i could win the lottery this week but i would not count on such odds and i doubt you would either - so then why should the people of Armenia? Think Tom - think about what you are saying and implying and see if it is reasonable. You cannot compare Armenias situation to the Azeris and Russians there are HUGE differences here.

So when you generalize about the diaspora it's okay but when I do it I am told that I have to compare oranges to oranges...

I will repeat it again: Armenia can still be an attractive place to live even with the blockade and lack of resources. And that it isn't is certainly the fault of the successive post-independence governments and the pervasive culture of bribery and corruption. If it makes you feel any better, it's not unique to Armenia. Even with their bountiful natural resources, Azerbaijan and Russia have the same problems because they have similar leaders and oligarchs.

[TomServo]

Re: Elections in Armenia

They do not have the same problems. You conveniently left out the threat of war to from you argument. Reading you posts would make people think that oligarchs do not exist in the west. I wonder how you would feel if you had a family in a country threatened by blockade, lack of resources and oh yeh WAR! I wonder if you lived in such a country that you would be saying the things you say now. Perspective can do a number on the way you think. Sure Armenia and her resources could and should be managed better but this is not even close to being as big a problem as the other factors i mentioned. Azeris and Russia do not have the same problems as Armenia. They do not have to worry about where they will get gas and oil. They do not have to worry about closed borders and airspace. Their enemies do not outnumber and outspend them like Armenia's enemies do. Again these are appples and oranges your comparing. "Armenia can still be an attractive place to live even with the blockade and lack of resources" sure i guess anything is possible-hey i could win the lottery this week but i would not count on such odds and i doubt you would either - so then why should the people of Armenia? Think Tom - think about what you are saying and implying and see if it is reasonable. You cannot compare Armenias situation to the Azeris and Russians there are HUGE differences here.

Those are still just excuses. The blockade and threat of war make things difficult but not impossible. Nor does it justify the deeply entrenched culture of bribery and corruption. I haven't lived in Armenia but I visited during the Kocharian period and my views slowly started to change after that. Before my visit I was an Armenian flag-waving reactionary like Vahram.

I want what's best for Armenia and for the diaspora. Of course I understand that Armenia can't rely on its own military and has to have Russia defend its borders.* It's pretty shameful but I can understand why that's the way things are. That doesn't mean I can't criticize the Armenian or Russian government(s) and their political leaders. Or American political leaders, for that matter.

The reason I am not completely pessimistic about the closed borders is because of the IT field and information-based services, which the Armenian government has been investing in (with plenty of diasporan assistance, of course). It allows for a lot of business to be conducted over the Internet, thereby circumventing borders. I'm hoping that the generation being groomed by some of these new institutions (TUMO, Ayb) will bring about change and prosperity for all Armenians.

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

The blockade and threat of war make things difficult but not impossible

Now is that a back peddle? I mean from I don't believe to sure it is hard. I guess some of the glue must have worn off....ROTF!!!!

I haven't lived in Armenia but I visited during the Kocharian period and my views slowly started to change after that. Before my visit I was an Armenian flag-waving reactionary like Vahram.

Yes I agree, but the big difference was not going to Hayastan, the difference was in stating the glue sniffing habbit. As you have left a nation and a people and resorted to daydreams. After all if it was not for us flag waving people you had a very dismissive attitude, now in a few shot hours you have a different tune about the blockade now don't you? What changed your mind? Was it the glue wearing off or could you not run from facts any more, please don't tell me it was a combo deal! This is not in and out! ...LOL

You can't just sniff glue and order another hamburger because Raffie the pot smoking glue sniffing Mofo from L.A. did not get the votes that the Joo wanted him to get. After all we would have a glue sniffing Mofo from L.A. in charge of Armenia, what a waste of a nation that would be....( Crying in tears but laughing my arse off to put it another way, if I was not laughing this hard I would not be in such tears )...ROTFL

I want what's best for Armenia and for the diaspora. Of course I understand that Armenia can't rely on its own military and has to have Russia defend its borders.*

If only we could get you off the xxxx faster, perhaps then we would not have issues with one another. Just stay off the Sh!t kid!

That doesn't mean I can't criticize the Armenian or Russian government(s) and their political leaders. Or American political leaders, for that matter.

In a vacuum you can do what you want. But understand we are not in a vacuum of space you have geopolitical issues around you! This is a bit realistic then 2 hours ago!

The reason I am not completely pessimistic about the closed borders is because of the IT field and information-based services,

Ohh! IT! was it not an Armenian women who dug up the Armenian internet connection a year or so ago? We can print anything about Armenian in the Joo press, as long as it is negative. But that does not stop you from eating a cookie does it? After all if you want a cookie you have to pay! Don't you guys in L.A. know you have to pay for eating cookies?...LOL

I'm hoping that the generation being groomed by some of these new institutions (TUMO, Ayb) will bring about change and prosperity for all Armenians.

Well keep hoping son! 2 hours ago you did not believe in a blockade now you have things to preach? For the new ones? These new ones form L.A. are they all smoking glue like you?