Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Thats probably because the topic came from a Feminism class so it applies to women in general. Armenian women are "raised improperly", lol. Please, tell me another bedtime story. Like Saco said, the problem is with the men who mistreat them.

This particular problem has nothing to do with men mistreating women.It is not fair to claim this is just some crap from a feminist class or to call it a bedtime story.I think you and saco are simply too young to undestand what these women are talking about and i can't blame you, at 19 i didn't know it either.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Saco you seem like a good Armenian young man but you are not grasping the problems these women are talking about. Perhaps you are too young and lack the experience of a long term relationship or maybe another reason i won't venture and guess. The point is that atleast some of the women feel that there is a issue with the way they were brought up and its consequences on their sexuality. I know this issue because i have witnessed it first hand many times.This problem is evident in many different places and is not localised to one area. It is not only effecting Armenians but many others who are subject to their own"traditional upbringing". I agree that being youself is easier said then done but it really is the best way to make peace with yourself and you need to do this before you can undestand things from other peoples perspective.Once you understand yourself you can start seeing the world for what it really is and not what other people tell you it is.I was born in Yerevan and lived there till i was 9, my family immigrated in 1981 and i have lived in the Detroit area since then.

I think Saco has a fine grasp on the problems for someone his age. Our "traditional" grandparents didn't have these "sexuality" issues. Perhaps women should stop listening to Oprah and stop reading those retarded magazines that "confuse them" and suppress their sexuality.

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

. Our "traditional" grandparents didn't have these "sexuality" issue
How do you know this?Just because they had sex and reproduced does not mean they didn't have these issues.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

. Our "traditional" grandparents didn't have these "sexuality" issue
How do you know this?Just because they had sex and reproduced does not mean they didn't have these issues.

They had less stress, more time, were more social and didn't live in this ridiculously perverted and oppressed society. You have to take all these factors into account.

[Sako]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Saco you seem like a good Armenian young man but you are not grasping the problems these women are talking about. Perhaps you are too young and lack the experience of a long term relationship or maybe another reason i won't venture and guess.

Haha, I was waiting to hear something like this from you. I just thought you'd do something smarter ... like answering my questions. What is it I haven't grasped, Haykakan? Fact is, no matter what anyone says here, you'll just come back and say we're wrong. Why? Because you, your research, and your theories can't be wrong for some reason. It's the same in the other thread.

Based on experience, I've seen more Armenian girls then probably you and many others have. One simple reason? Because I've met our girls living in many different places, personally had many, many friends (I hate using the word girlfriends), and most importantly now LIVE here in our beautiful nation. I don't live in a small Armenian community somewhere in the world. I live in the land of Armenian girls!

Don't let your research and age allow you to make my words seem primitive or childish to you. Read what I'm saying instead of ignoring it all. At least I know how to take forward a conversation. So far, you haven't really responded to anything I've said. Don't let my age fool you, either. I've been to as many countries, if not more, then you have, and I've gathered experience most don't gain in a lifetime along with the right to stand here and say what I'm saying. I never say something based on theory. I only say what I know! I don't mean to brag or anything, yekhpayr, I have more important things to do, I just want you to set aside the thought that age matters even a bit here. I know a four year old that plays the damn drums better then most players out there that have been playing for years and years. Don't let age ever fool you! So far, I don't think I've said anything far from understanding. You just have to try and understand. Your not trying at all. Your just standing there and claiming I'm young, lol! That's easy to say. Say something I haven't heard yet!

This particular problem has nothing to do with men mistreating women.

It has something to do with it and I can prove it.

It is not fair to claim this is just some crap from a feminist class or to call it a bedtime story.

I didn't claim this. I just said that it's wrong to call our majority girls handicapped or "old minded".

I think you and saco are simply too young to undestand what these women are talking about and i can't blame you, at 19 i didn't know it either.

Well I do and a lot of other things as well. Don't try and minimize me with my age, Haykakan. Frankly speaking, a lot of the things you said in some of the other threads were more childish then anything I've ever said in my entire life so stop pointing your finger at numbers. So far, we haven't said anything abnormal and incase you didn't know, Kanada isn't 19 and to be clear, there were many people that support our views. What are you gonna say to them ... that their childish, as well?

The point is that atleast some of the women feel that there is a issue with the way they were brought up and its consequences on their sexuality.

Please show me those women! I'd like to talk to them properly. If your talking about Kattie, fact is she hasn't even properly replied to what many of us have said. Frankly speaking, her first post was rather confusing and she hasn't really provided us with any research she's done. Everything she says seems to have been based on a few Armenian women she's seen in her life. Is she talking about the majority of Armenian women or just girls she's met at a party? You have to answer these questions before starting a thread and so far, neither you or she have answered anything properly! There were so many girls that supported Kanada's and my views. Why do you think their wrong?

I know this issue because i have witnessed it first hand many times.

What makes you think I haven't? The only difference is I don't put emphasis the size of Mt. Ararat on our traditions or our girls. I know so many people that call our women this or that but have only met a handful of Armenians in their entire freakin lives ... and where? In the good ol` US of A where EVERYONE is pretty much spoiled, not just our handful of Armenians. And these people don't say this or that girl was "old minded" ... they say the majority of our girls are just strange, without ever coming to Armenia or even meeting a REAL Armenian women. That's what pisses me off and I find it disrespecting. Don't you? What's funny is how some completely modernized Armenian guys stand by their sides and agree with what their saying. When you talk to these punks, you soon start to realize that they just like to get in bed with girls and when they see they can't do that with our girls cause they've got serious standards ... they call them "old minded". Well xxxx YOU haters! Of course, naturally, when our girls hear this kind of s*hit, they'll feel down and start looking up to retards like Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian (who doesn't know anything in Armenian except the word vorr, by the way), trying to become more suitable for the modern men out there. What they don't understand is that these pieces of xxxx couldn't even come CLOSE to their standards even if they wanted to. It's them that should try and change. Not our girls. They are the "old minded" ones ... or better yet ... the DEAD minded ones! Our girls have come a long way and deserve respect. I'm tired of hearing all this.

This problem is evident in many different places and is not localised to one area. It is not only effecting Armenians but many others who are subject to their own"traditional upbringing".

Haykakan, after reading your posts in different threads, I clearly see that you have some problem with tradition, religion, marriage, and many other important aspects of life .. and not just Armenian traditions, etc. You claim you have done research but so far, all I've heard are theories and personal thoughts. If you really want to diss our traditions then I suggest you come prepared because that's the only way me or anyone else is gonna take you seriously. Let's start from square one, shall we?

What tradition is backwards according to you? We've talked about "traditional upbringing" but we haven't mentioned any traditions yet. I'm all ears o (O)!

I agree that being youself is easier said then done but it really is the best way to make peace with yourself and you need to do this before you can undestand things from other peoples perspective.Once you understand yourself you can start seeing the world for what it really is and not what other people tell you it is.

I agree and what makes you think that I haven't done all this? Or did my age fool you again?

I was born in Yerevan and lived there till i was 9, my family immigrated in 1981 and i have lived in the Detroit area since then.

Well now I can clearly see where you get many of your views from, no offense.

You know what the difference between me and you is, my friend? I've lived in Yerevan for five to six years altogether and not as a youngster alone ... at many different periods in my life. I've seen the dark days and the real bright ones and I see my country and love her for who she is ... ANKAKH nuranits te inch problemner uni. Now my entire family has settled down, it's been already three years, and I feel everything that's going on and am a part of it all personally as well. I work with my people every day so if anyone has the right to talk, it's me. You live in the Diaspora and the rule of thumb is ... don't say something about a place you don't live in! Coming and going isn't enough. You have to become a part of our people to understand what their like. Many, many talk about our girls when they haven't ever visited Armenia ... just a few Armenian communities ... and start to make serious judgement calls. I've said this before and I'm saying it again. Whoever doesn't live here amongst our people doesn't have a damn right to call them anything. They might be lower then the dirt we walk on or higher then Mt. Ararat but no one has a right to make any critical judgements. If ANYONE other then those living here in Armenia wants to say something, he/she muct be able to back up his/her words properly, citing proper examples and talking clearly so that we can all understand him/her.

How do you know this?Just because they had sex and reproduced does not mean they didn't have these issues.

What makes you think they did? It's not very hard to prove you wrong.

__________________________________________________ ________________________

Right now, the biggest problem I see in Armenia is within many men. They misuse our girls, especially the very loving and good hearted ones, and I am AGAINST them and always will be. This is a serious issue. So let's stop blaming the girls and talk about ourselves for once. This has an immediate connection to this thread, as well, don't think it doesn't, because these men are the ones that will be raising our future female generations. I have personally met many of these guys and when you hear the way they talk, you'll feel like stabbing them to death. They are spoiling our girls and don't give a hoot about our history or our people. I don't even consider them to be Armenians. They are the main problem right now and anyone that has experience or claims to know much about Armenia will know this. Our female population is much, much bigger then our male population and I don't like how lot's of our girls have been turned into toys.

[hrai]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

.

You know what the difference between me and you is, my friend? I've lived in Yerevan for five to six years altogether and not as a youngster alone Now my entire family has settled down, it's been already three years, You live in the Diaspora and the rule of thumb is ... don't say something about a place you don't live in! Coming and going isn't enough. You have to become a part of our people to understand what their like. Many, many talk about our girls when they haven't ever visited Armenia ... just a few Armenian communities ... and start to make serious judgement calls. I've said this before and I'm saying it again. Whoever doesn't live here amongst our people doesn't have a damn right to call them anything. If ANYONE other then those living here in Armenia wants to say something, he/she muct be able to back up his/her words properly, citing proper examples and talking clearly so that we can all understand him/her.

This seems to have degenerated into a slug-match between Saco & Haykakan. Shame.
I'm not taking sides at all but Saco, you run the risk of alienating many people here with your "More Armenian Than You" attitude.
Why do you disrespect Diasporans so ?
My gorgeous wife is a Yerevansti princess and we went through the traditional courtship ritual for a long time before we married and even so I was petrified when I asked her father for her hand even though I knew he would say yes. Our daughter knows the same values and will live by them, not because we as her parents say she must, but because she sees the worth in them.
Will we insist she marries Armenian? No, we'll insist she marries true to her values, chances are it will be an Armenian boy.
Saco, please I don't want to hear anymore about your being in Armenia is better than others..............you don't know where everyone lives or where they're from or why, it loses your audience.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This seems to have degenerated into a slug-match between Saco & Haykakan. Shame.
I'm not taking sides at all but Saco, you run the risk of alienating many people here with your "More Armenian Than You" attitude.
Why do you disrespect Diasporans so ?
My gorgeous wife is a Yerevansti princess and we went through the traditional courtship ritual for a long time before we married and even so I was petrified when I asked her father for her hand even though I knew he would say yes. Our daughter knows the same values and will live by them, not because we as her parents say she must, but because she sees the worth in them.
Will we insist she marries Armenian? No, we'll insist she marries true to her values, chances are it will be an Armenian boy.
Saco, please I don't want to hear anymore about your being in Armenia is better than others..............you don't know where everyone lives or where they're from or why, it loses your audience.

I don't know where you got the idea that Saco was "More Armenian Than You". He was speaking on behalf of all Armenians around the world. Personally, I agree with everything he has said and I've been in the "diaspora" my entire life. The funny thing about culture, the majority of the time, the woman's culture is dominant unless the man's side of the family is directly involved with the children. That IS why it's called the mother's tongue. I think this is why you see more Armenian women marrying into other cultures and Armenian men running around aimlessly like chickens with their heads cut off. Saco was referring to everyone's opinion on Armenia when most of the diaspora go there to "vacation" and "party" and don't really get a taste of what life is like in Armenia.

[iFemale]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Can you guys just shut up and dance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bFLg7vwhEo

Hye Aghchik....Hop-Hop-Hopa!

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Can you guys just shut up and dance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bFLg7vwhEo

Hye Aghchik....Hop-Hop-Hopa!

Be quiet, you're handicapped remember? I'm silencing you

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This seems to have degenerated into a slug-match between Saco & Haykakan. Shame.
I'm not taking sides at all but Saco, you run the risk of alienating many people here with your "More Armenian Than You" attitude.
Why do you disrespect Diasporans so ?
My gorgeous wife is a Yerevansti princess and we went through the traditional courtship ritual for a long time before we married and even so I was petrified when I asked her father for her hand even though I knew he would say yes. Our daughter knows the same values and will live by them, not because we as her parents say she must, but because she sees the worth in them.
Will we insist she marries Armenian? No, we'll insist she marries true to her values, chances are it will be an Armenian boy.
Saco, please I don't want to hear anymore about your being in Armenia is better than others..............you don't know where everyone lives or where they're from or why, it loses your audience.

Saco and kanadahye definetly do not understand this issue. They percieve the discussion of a legitimate social problem which is not even uniquly armenian as somehow dissing armenian values and armenian women even when it is a armenian women who started the thread.There is definetly immeturity here and it is not all that unnatural (they are both young). The simple fact is you won't get what we are talking about untill you have experienced it yourself and this means having a long and serious relationship with a women if you are a man.Being in armenia does not give saco the right to simply dimiss this issue, you dont encounter this problem at the begining of a relationship or even if you make it to second or third base with a woman. These two guys are just too young and inexperienced to comprehend this subject and i wish they would just let those who have something constuctive to add to participate instead ruining this very insightfull and usefull thread.