Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

That logic doesn't apply here.You can't get married then send someone in your place to honeymoon!

Really? I didn't know a ceremony and a "legal" piece of paper followed by an all expense paid vacation constituted into "knowledge"

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Kanada, theoretically I know how to change a dirty diaper...............but...

I hear you loud and clear

[Lucin]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

What generalization and what did you understand?

Kattie, you did not seem to make any exceptions in your intital post (?)

That's what I implied in:
"In societies where Armenians are directly exposed to other cultures, the traditional concept of the Armenian couple becomes vulnerable because insufficient to guarantee the longevity of the couple. I don't shy away from responsibilities, but a sense of responsibilities is not always enough to guarantee the longevity of a relationship, partners should not take each other for granted and that's where charm comes in. I don't have in mind particular charms, and it's more about charming."

What is called charm and the lack of it makes also a couple fall into banalities and platitudes once the initial lust, the fire and the passion of the very beginning fades away, I believe this is also what makes couples not notice often times each other's presence after a while. I'm not married but this is just what I have observed in many couples.

I kept wondering who will ask this obvious but simple question.
I can't clearly define charm for the same reasons than one can't clearly define love or anything so essential to human life, both are multifaceted and maybe too "natural/primitive" to be fully understood. But I'll do my best.
First of all, I will remind what I've already said: "I don't have in mind particular charms, and it's more about charming." That is to say that what matters is the natural inclination that we have to charm, how it's done is to some degree culturally dependent.

Natural inclination? Do you think 'charming' or having the 'charm' within is inherent to every single woman's nature? Do all of us possess the 'same' level of charm? And that some are able to express it while others not?

In cooking, the ingredients do not make the dish, the cook does. The same applies to charming. The ingredients can be as simple as a smile, an earring, the passion in our words, the way one tilts the head, kindness, intelligence, the expression of the eyes, the stories one invents, our integrity, our love, giving, our dreams etc. etc.

Nice... I'm glad that you did not include physical 'attractiveness' in it. I would also like to add that a woman who is comfortable in her skin, who has some degree of self-acceptance and sometimes tends to lack inhibition can emanate that 'charm' from herself...

Second of all, I would distinguish it from what can be considered as a responsibility or compliance to a certain code/etiquette. For instance, little girls want to put on pretty dresses because they want to be a princess and charm, older women put on pretty dresses because it is proper. The dream is gone.
Another example is when Armenians put a pretty dress because it's "shnorkov", the purpose is not to charm but to comply. Of course, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Third of all, I would distinguish it from acting i.e. forcing oneself to do what people consider as charming, so it has to be naturally part of you. I have in mind women who force themselves to act in certain way just or wear a certain type of clothes/underwear just because they believe that their partner would enjoy it. Of course, if the woman genuinely enjoys how the clothes/underwear feel/look on her body then it's not acting, and she will wear them differently, with style.

So would you deem anything that is done willingly, with no sense of compliance as 'charming'?

My father was very authoritarian, he demanded his children to speak only Armenian at home, he forbid my mother to speak one turkish word. I learnt French at school. We were not allowed to talk French at home.

I do not see how the willingness to remain true and close to your roots be considered as "old-minded" or "authoritarian"? I know what... it would have been much more comforatble for you to speak French at home...

You can consider this right or wrong it is up to you but the fact is men need sex more often then women, it is in our biology.

This is not true. Most women absolutely love sex! It is in our biology!

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This is not true. Most women absolutely love sex! It is in our biology!

Speak the truth sister, speak the truth

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This is great, we have a variety of people participating in this thread now and the youngsters are becoming more coherent and less offencive.I wish our ladies would participate a bit more, afterall this issue is also their issue.
"An Armenian women who doesn't seem to come back and continue the discussion. So many people, not just me, gave really serious questions and neither you or the Armenian women you mentioned said anything. And although you say this problem isn't uniqely Armenian ... the way you guys talk places a special emphasis on our girls and our "traditional upbringing" so how it not uniqely Armenian. We're talking about Armenian "traditional upbringing" and so far, no one mentioned a single tradition that they didn't like. So don't be talking about imaturity Haykakan. It's not the place or time for that."
Kattie came back and specified the things she was talking about pretty nicely i thought and in addition we got two new ladies who also stepped up to participate but one of them got a load of undeserved crap and hostility for her participation in return and i hope it doesn't keep her away."armenian traditional upbringing" is not all that different then many other "traditional upbringings" when it comes to a women's sexuality and critisism regarding the issue is not disrespecting or putting down what it means to be armenian.Dear Saco do you realize that i have lived in Armenia longer then you have and that eventhough i spend most of my time here in the states now i still spend time in Armenia as well and most of my friends here are armenian.Experience is something that you cannot replace and when it comes to women our youngsters simply dont have this kind of experience yet ( refering to a long relationship or marriage).I think Saco you are pretty mature for your age but i am not putting you down by saying you are inexperienced and that you need experience to undestand this particular thing.If i were you i would not take comfort in agreeing with Kanadahye's statements "I agree.", eventhough he is making progress he still has a long ways to go in presenting a rational argument without offending people on a consistent bases.Maturity does not replace actual experience, you can be very mature but if you havent given birth you still don't know what it's like to do so.The reason i don't respond to every statement you and kanadahye make is because some of them either have already been responded to,are redundent and make no sence or are hostile and unwarrented comments.

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This is not true. Most women absolutely love sex! It is in our biology!
You are right but women don't need it anywhere near as often as men do.That is also in our biology.Also sex has a slightly different meaning to a man then it does to a woman usually.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

This is great, we have a variety of people participating in this thread now and the youngsters are becoming more coherent and less offencive.I wish our ladies would participate a bit more, afterall this issue is also their issue.
"An Armenian women who doesn't seem to come back and continue the discussion. So many people, not just me, gave really serious questions and neither you or the Armenian women you mentioned said anything. And although you say this problem isn't uniqely Armenian ... the way you guys talk places a special emphasis on our girls and our "traditional upbringing" so how it not uniqely Armenian. We're talking about Armenian "traditional upbringing" and so far, no one mentioned a single tradition that they didn't like. So don't be talking about imaturity Haykakan. It's not the place or time for that."
Kattie came back and specified the things she was talking about pretty nicely i thought and in addition we got two new ladies who also stepped up to participate but one of them got a load of undeserved crap and hostility for her participation in return and i hope it doesn't keep her away."armenian traditional upbringing" is not all that different then many other "traditional upbringings" when it comes to a women's sexuality and critisism regarding the issue is not disrespecting or putting down what it means to be armenian.Dear Saco do you realize that i have lived in Armenia longer then you have and that eventhough i spend most of my time here in the states now i still spend time in Armenia as well and most of my friends here are armenian.Experience is something that you cannot replace and when it comes to women our youngsters simply dont have this kind of experience yet ( refering to a long relationship or marriage).I think Saco you are pretty mature for your age but i am not putting you down by saying you are inexperienced and that you need experience to undestand this particular thing.If i were you i would not take comfort in agreeing with Kanadahye's statements "I agree.", eventhough he is making progress he still has a long ways to go in presenting a rational argument without offending people on a consistent bases.Maturity does not replace actual experience, you can be very mature but if you havent given birth you still don't know what it's like to do so.The reason i don't respond to every statement you and kanadahye make is because some of them either have already been responded to,are redundent and make no sence or are hostile and unwarrented comments.

I don't see anyone disagreeing with anything Saco or I have said. So far the only one spreading fallacies and unsubstantiated claims is you.

"Armenian traditional upbringing" is not all that different then many other "traditional upbringings" when it comes to a women's sexuality and critisism regarding the issue is not disrespecting or putting down what it means to be Armenian.

There are very specific traditions that gives us our sense of identity. To claim that it's OUR culture that is affecting some of our women's sexuality is somewhat unsubstantiated don't you think?

[Gavur]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Really? I didn't know a ceremony and a "legal" piece of paper followed by an all expense paid vacation constituted into "knowledge"

No, thats when giving starts, and through giving comes knowledge.Of course without love and respect its quite useless, knowing what it really takes is after doing not before.

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

"knowing what it really takes is after doing not before"
Excellent comment and it sums up what i have been saying nicely.

[Haykakan]

Re: Are Armenian women handicapped because of their upbringing?

Kanadahye you know you have no argument when you intentionally cut out the rest of the sentence which easily disproves the very point you are trying to make.This act implies that you saw and understood that the later part of the sentence would make your claim baseless and you chose to ommit it.This is another form of your hostility you need to learn to control and as you can see it gets you no where.