How does everyone feel about Israel?

[KanadaHye]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

In general Western women are treated far better than women in middle east. Take the average woman from France and Iran. Not only that at least in the West you don't have the idiotic sharia laws that account for all that oppression. I'm not saying all Muslims are uneducated, but the sharia laws and the Islamic society greatly hinder secular education as they focus on islamic education which in my opinion doesn't do you much good. I mean they banned Music for crying out loud in Iran universities because it's un-islamic. Just idiotic.

Hmm... I suggest you read up on some pretty oppressive laws in Israel.

Under Israel's Divorce Laws, Men Get The Final Word

Israel has a singular system when it comes to matters of family law. For J3ws, the religious or rabbinical court is the only one able to grant a divorce. The court rules according to J3wish law — a system that has been in place for thousands of years — and it is run exclusively by Orthodox rabbis.

If he's incapacitated, if he's abusive, if he committed adultery, it really doesn't matter. If he doesn't say yes, you're stuck.

- Susan Weiss, of the Center for Women's Justice

According to J3wish law, a man has to agree to grant the divorce of his own free will before the legal separation can proceed. Rights groups say the system unfairly discriminates against women.

"If he's incapacitated, if he's abusive, if he committed adultery, it really doesn't matter," says Susan Weiss, who runs the Center for Women's Justice in Israel. "If he doesn't say yes, you're stuck."

Ramit Alon, 40, was living in an Orthodox community with her husband and three children when she decided to leave her marriage.

"I got married 16, almost 17 years ago," Alon says. "We had some problems as a couple, and 4 1/2 years ago, I left. I took my kids and just ran away."

Alon says she was optimistic about what lay ahead. "I thought that after I leave, it will take some months and then I could get divorced and start again, a new life. But it's not over."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=125673859

Sex trafficking is a disgrace but you can't compare that to sharia law oppression where woman have no choice and are oppressed just because they are born woman. More less, women can choose if they want to be prostitutes or not.

They are being brought into the country with the notion that they'll have jobs when they get there and then they are forced into prostitution. That's not choice.

[Mos]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Hmm... I suggest you read up on some pretty oppressive laws in Israel.

Under Israel's Divorce Laws, Men Get The Final Word

Israel has a singular system when it comes to matters of family law. For J3ws, the religious or rabbinical court is the only one able to grant a divorce. The court rules according to J3wish law — a system that has been in place for thousands of years — and it is run exclusively by Orthodox rabbis.

If he's incapacitated, if he's abusive, if he committed adultery, it really doesn't matter. If he doesn't say yes, you're stuck.

- Susan Weiss, of the Center for Women's Justice

According to J3wish law, a man has to agree to grant the divorce of his own free will before the legal separation can proceed. Rights groups say the system unfairly discriminates against women.

"If he's incapacitated, if he's abusive, if he committed adultery, it really doesn't matter," says Susan Weiss, who runs the Center for Women's Justice in Israel. "If he doesn't say yes, you're stuck."

Ramit Alon, 40, was living in an Orthodox community with her husband and three children when she decided to leave her marriage.

"I got married 16, almost 17 years ago," Alon says. "We had some problems as a couple, and 4 1/2 years ago, I left. I took my kids and just ran away."

Alon says she was optimistic about what lay ahead. "I thought that after I leave, it will take some months and then I could get divorced and start again, a new life. But it's not over."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=125673859

Did I mention Israel has an example of women's rights? It's surely much better than Muslim countries but Israel to has its problems, as it's governmental laws have some theocratic elements.

They are being brought into the country with the notion that they'll have jobs when they get there and then they are forced into prostitution. That's not choice.

You cannot compare that to a woman being oppressed just because she's a woman. In most cases woman can choose if they want to be prostitutes or not, and when it comes to such sex trafficking case it's illegal while oppressing those woman in the muslim countries is legal under Sharia law.

So do you still support terrorism?

[KanadaHye]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

You cannot compare that to a woman being oppressed just because she's a woman. In most cases woman can choose if they want to be prostitutes or not, and when it comes to such sex trafficking case it's illegal while oppressing those woman in the muslim countries is legal under Sharia law.

If you're referring to equality between men and women, the only difference between Judaism and Islam is the perception the media portrays.

So do you still support terrorism?

Define terrorism. As I stated before, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[Mos]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

If you're referring to equality between men and women, the only difference between Judaism and Islam is the perception the media portrays.

Actually xxxish woman tend to be more dominant in the household than the man. Being xxxish is heavily associated with having a xxxish mother. Remember there are many xxxs that live outside Israel. In Israel you may have some unfair laws, especially when it comes to the very orthodox, but it's no where near the inequality that exists in Islam.

Define terrorism. As I stated before, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Killing innocent civilians is freedom fighting? Really? What kind of BS is that? Terrorism is using terror to achieve a goal. And that terror almost always includes killing people, almost all of the time innocent ones.

Terrorism is done by sick and deranged people, there's no justification for it, at all.

[Yedtarts]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Killing innocent civilians is freedom fighting? Really? What kind of BS is that? Terrorism is using terror to achieve a goal. And that terror almost always includes killing people, almost all of the time innocent ones.

How many innocent civilians were killed when Israel invaded Lebanon or US invaded Iraq?

Terrorism is done by sick and deranged people, there's no justification for it, at all.

Yeah like: Henry Kissinger, George W. Bush, xxxx Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Ariel Sharon and on...

[Mos]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

How many innocent civilians were killed when Israel invaded Lebanon or US invaded Iraq?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Firstly, Israel nor US target innocent civilians, there military actions may result in civilian deaths but they do not go and specifically target innocent lives. The terrorists specifically target innocent lives.

And still that justifies killing going and killing more innocent civilians? What kind of person are you? Why the hell do you bear the "eye for an eye" backwards mentality?? That is an ideal that was rejected in Christianity, of course if you are a Christian to start with you would understand this...

Yeah like: Henry Kissinger, George W. Bush, xxxx Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Ariel Sharon and on...

Some of them may have done bad things, but they never directly supported going and killing innocent civilians. there's a very fine line.

[KanadaHye]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Firstly, Israel nor US target innocent civilians, there military actions may result in civilian deaths but they do not go and specifically target innocent lives. The terrorists specifically target innocent lives.

I guess the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were just poorly calculated bombings of entire civilian cities. I guess the use of agent orange on the Vietnamese civilians was just a science experiment gone wrong.

If you want to read about Israel's state sponsored terrorism, here is some words from an Israeli citizen:


Published on Monday, April 1, 2002 by Tikkun Magazine
Israel's State Terrorism
by Lev Grinberg

What is the difference between State terrorism and individual terrorist acts? If we understand this difference we'll understand also the evilness of the US policies in the Middle East and the forthcoming disasters. When Yassir Arafat was put under siege in his offices and kept hostage by the Israeli occupation forces, he was constantly pressed into condemning terror and combatting terrorism. Israel's Stateterrorism is defined by US officials as "self-defense", while individual suicide bombers are called terrorists.

The only 'small' difference is that Israeli aggression is the direct responsibility of Ariel Sharon, Benjamin Ben Eliezer, Shimon Peres and Shaul Mofaz, while the individual terrorist acts are done by individuals in despair, usually against Arafat's will. One hour after Arafat declared his support of a cease fire and wished the xxxs a Happy Passover feast, a suicide bomber exploded himself in an hotel in Netanya, killing 22 innocent xxxs celebrating Passover. Arafat was blamed as responsible for this act, and the present IDF offensive has been justified through this accusation.

At the same time, Sharon's responsibility for Israeli war crimes is being completely ignored. Who should be arrested for the targeted killing of almost 100 Palestinians? Who will be sent to jail for the killing of more than 120 Palestinian paramedics? Who will be sentenced for the killing of more than 1,200 Palestinians and for the collective punishment of more than 3,000,000 civilians during the last 18 months? And who will face the International Tribunal for the illegal settlement of occupied Palestinian Lands, and the disobedience of UN decisions for more than 35 years?

Suicide bombs killing innocent citizens must be unequivocally condemned; they are immoral acts, and their perpetrators should be sent to jail. But they cannot be compared to State terrorism carried out by the Israeli Government. The former are individual acts of despair of a people that sees no future, vastly ignored by an unfair and distorted international public opinion. The latter are cold and "rational" decisions of a State and a military apparatus of occupation, well equipped, financed and backed by the only superpower in the world.

Yet in the public debate, State terrorism and individual suicide bombs are not even considered as comparable cases of terrorism. The State terror and war crimes perpetrated by the Israeli Government are legitimized as "self-defense", while Arafat, even under siege, is demanded to arrest "terrorists."

I want to ask: Who will arrest Sharon, the person directly responsible for the orders to kill Palestinians? When is he going to be defined a terrorist too? How long will the world ignore the Palestinian cry that all they want is freedom and independence? When will it stop neglecting the fact that the goal of the Israeli Government is not security, but the continued occupation and subjugation of the Palestinian people?

As Israelis in the opposition, we are fighting against our government, but the international support that Sharon receives is constantly jeopardizing our struggle. The whole international public opinion must be reverted, and the UN must deploy intervention forces in order to stop the bloodshed and the imminent deterioration. Israelis and Palestinians desperately need the awakening of the international community's public opinion and a reversal in the global attitude. These are needed both in order to save our lives (literally), and preserve our hope in a better future.

Dr. Lev Grinberg is a political sociologist, and Director of the Humphrey Institute for Social Research at Ben Gurion University

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0401-04.htm

[Mos]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

I guess the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were just poorly calculated bombings of entire civilian cities. I guess the use of agent orange on the Vietnamese civilians was just a science experiment gone wrong.

Well the nuclear bomb was a terrible act done by the US, the agent orange wasn't directed towards civilians, but it was not carefully used. If you are going to hold US so responsible for that how about Britain during their colonial times the number of people they killed? Or the Spanish in Central/South America? You know how many people they killed? How about Soviet Union in killing millions of its own people or upon enter Afghanistan carpet bombing the country with no respect to civilians (a war which US has been much more milder as respective to the people living there)? Face it every country has done bad things in the past, especially any country that was a major power. So nobody is more "evil" than the other. Everybody has blood on their hands, stop trying to make it so only one side has that blood and everybody else are angels.

If you want to read about Israel's state sponsored terrorism, here is some words from an Israeli citizen:

So you do admit know that terrorist attacks are wrong?

The pattern is that Palestinian groups make a terrorist attack, and than the Israelis retaliate often retaliating overly harshly. I support retaliating against terrorist groups, but strongly condemn when such things are done with little consideration to civilian populace (which is done from time to time). Sometimes civilian deaths are unavoidable, sometimes it's because they are being used as human shields, and sometimes it's just carelessness by the Israelis.

[Federate]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

All I'm doing is taking a balanced approach to this conflict, I really could care less what happens in that area, but if I'm to discuss it I will do so in a neutral manner. Again both sides do bad things, and depicting Israelis as the monsters and Palestinians as the only victims is quite an exaggeration and inaccurate. Palestinians do there bad deeds with terrorist attacks/using human shields, Israelis do their bad things by being overly aggressive with their military and overly aggressive retaliations at times. There's propaganda on both sides.

On a more personal level, I've had a few Israeli friends with whom I got along very well and they were actually pretty pro-Armenian and anti-Turkish. They also reflect on the fact that many Israelis believe that the Genocide should be recognized. I'm not going to take a Israeli bias because of these friends, but saying that all Israelis are baby-killers or evil is just really wrong.

I agree with everything except that while both sides do suffer, the Palestinians suffer much more. Besides the occasional attack on Israeli soil and illegal settlers in the West Bank, the country is doing well for itself mainly due to the billions of dollars of aid over the last half century (has it reached a trillion yet?) and their large and successful diaspora. Keeping it brief, Palestinians on the other hand do not even have a country, are refugees almost everywhere in the world and their future looks bleak as it continues to lay in the hands of foreign powers who could not give a sh!t about them any less than their Arab brethren do. Gaza has been and still is a virtual prison. The 2005 unilateral pullout of Gaza by Israel resembles the prison guards opening the cells of the prisoners but making sure they can never leave the prison itself and maintain minimal contact with the outside world. The West Bank sees land grabs on a daily basis as the controversial wall goes up and not only this, but Israeli settlers continue to occupy large swaths of the West Bank on some bogus religious ground that does not hold water in the real world. Etc.

While I condemn the fact that Palestinians sometimes target civilians, overall statistics show that more Palestinian civilians have been killed than Israeli civilians during the Second Intifada. And this is not due to Palestinians using human shields but collateral damage, shooting on demonstrators by the Israeli army and West Bank settlers killing Palestinians. I dislike and do not use the word terrorist but if the use of human shields makes a person call one side of the conflict "terrorists", then Israel is definitely a terrorist entity given its widely documented use of human shields.
Another note,

It seems Armenia doesn't recognize Palestine? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...nition-map.png

What's the reason by curiosity... (

It's not that Armenia does not recognise Palestine. Countries portrayed in grey on the map are countries where there is no information on their position. Check right under the table in this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign..._and_relations

[Mos]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

I agree with everything except that while both sides do suffer, the Palestinians suffer much more. Besides the occasional attack on Israeli soil and illegal settlers in the West Bank, the country is doing well for itself mainly due to the billions of dollars of aid over the last half century (has it reached a trillion yet?) and their large and successful diaspora. Keeping it brief, Palestinians on the other hand do not even have a country, are refugees almost everywhere in the world and their future looks bleak as it continues to lay in the hands of foreign powers who could not give a sh!t about them any less than their Arab brethren do. Gaza has been and still is a virtual prison. The 2005 unilateral pullout of Gaza by Israel resembles the prison guards opening the cells of the prisoners but making sure they can never leave the prison itself and maintain minimal contact with the outside world. The West Bank sees land grabs on a daily basis as the controversial wall goes up and not only this, but Israeli settlers continue to occupy large swaths of the West Bank on some bogus religious ground that does not hold water in the real world. Etc.

While I condemn the fact that Palestinians sometimes target civilians, overall statistics show that more Palestinian civilians have been killed than Israeli civilians during the Second Intifada. And this is not due to Palestinians using human shields but collateral damage, shooting on demonstrators by the Israeli army and West Bank settlers killing Palestinians. I dislike and do not use the word terrorist but if the use of human shields makes a person call one side of the conflict "terrorists", then Israel is definitely a terrorist entity given its widely documented use of human shields.

I agree that Israelis have been overly aggressive in their responses, but you also have to admit that this is a "see-saw" conflict, and blaming everything on one side is uncalled for. I also disagree that Israel can be labelled a terrorist state, I never labelled Palestine as a terrorist state, just the specific groups that organize such attacks against innocent civilians. For the most part, Israel is not constructing attacks against innocent civilians. Rather being at time just carless about them when rooting out the terrorist groups.

It's not that Armenia does not recognise Palestine. Countries portrayed in grey on the map are countries where there is no information on their position. Check right under the table in this link

I'll do some research find out what Armenia's position is on Palestine.

I also recently found out that Armenia is not officially recognized by Pakistan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partially_recognized_states

F*ck Pakistan, I mean they seem more anti-Armenian than Turkey....