Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

[1.5 million]

Turanist - you are just an ignorant scum and I will not waste my time further with you. Facts are facts. You don't know xxxx.

[imported_Fadix]

maybe the Turks are Christian Turks .

only loser must be swearing to get points through. Also no Muslim country accept it was genocide.


Germany is Christian country . you prove my point. Thanks for you.

As far as I'm concerned, Lebanon is 50-50 and recognizes the genocide. In Syria, presidents have had no problem calling it such, an official recognition was blocked by Turkey with cheap tricks, the same goes with the proposition that was to be voted in Iran, which was supported and was to pass had Turkey not played its dirty tricks during the so-called Islamic-conferences.

If you read Persian, you shall read the Persian Wikipedia Armenian genocide entry and compare it with the Holocaust one, and let see which is disagreed and reverted.

There are among said Islamic nations less disagreements regarding the Armenian genocide than the Holocaust. In Syria, you can hardly find anyone not knowing what weant in the city of Zor and its vassinities, you can still find erderlies who have witnessed Armenians thrown to the ground in hiles digged and to then set afire.

In Egypt, in April 24, many officials commemorate the genocide.

Which Muslim country does the same for the Shoah?

I haven't even discussed about Lebanon.

If you were to poll the world about those who doubt a genocide happened, the Holocaust is more doubted when considering that a large portion of muslims believe it to be a myth, while beside Turks, muslims do not majoritarly deny the Armenian genocide.

[imported_Fadix]

As for Muslim witnesses, I'd consider the Sharif of Mecca dissotiation with the Ottoman Empire in the decision taken against the Armenians, and the order from the Mecca issued to protect the Armenians from being butchered like animals, the highest instances of "Islamic" evidence. The Mecca was aware of it, and condemned what was done against the Armenians.

There are many Turks, the Commander of the Ottoman third army, Vehib, wrote in his 12 pages afidavit how Armenians were destroyed, and he claimed that it was a program of destruction. Refik from the Ottoman War departement, wrote that there was a plan of destruction. He later became a history professor in Turkey, and because of his continual recognition of what happened to the Armenians, Ataturk got involved and kicked him out of his job, the guy died sick, and could not even pay for his food. There are many others, some from the special organization. Halil, the Uncle of the minister of war, Enver, writes in his memoirs having tried to exterminate the Armenians to the last individual.

Those are few examples of non-Christian evidences, not to mention, Emin, who was charged to have as task to deny, in his 1930 had to admit to not get his work discredited, that for some in the government, the decision taken against the Armenians meant their destruction.

Oh yeh, also, not to mention the slightly over 40 investigators during the Mazhar commission which was to give birth to the Martial court, had bunch of admissions, documents and records. They were all "Muslim."

Do I have to continue? If this doesn't satisfy you, perhaps, do you want few other dozens?

[1.5 million]

also is there any non-Christian witness of Armenian claims?

also is Armenian Genocide recognised by non-Christian countries?

OK - against my better judgement - but just to prove a point - you know jack - so shut TF up!

American Ambasador (to the Ottoman Empire) Morganthau - who was JEWISH! - was a cheif witness to the Armenian Genocide:

http://www.hr-action.org/docs/MorgenTC.htm

Recetnly Isreali Cheif Rabbi has recognized the authenticity of the Armenian Genocide (see other posts on this site confirming this) - and he was not the first - in 2000 the Israeli Minister of Education affirmed the Armenain Genocide

A number of Jewsih authors have written about (and confirmed) the Armenian Genocide including Yuri Auron, Robert Melson etc

Several Turkish scholars have confiremd the Genocide - most notably Taner Ackan..also Halay Berktay - and in fact Ataturk himself confirmed the CUP as killers of "over one million of the Empires Christian subjects"...sounds like ocnfirmation to me - big time...and of course I have mentioned that a number of auto-biographies of ex CUP memebers written after this time confirm their roles in the killings...and we can't forget that recent conference in Istanbul affirming the Genocide - attended entirely by Turks - etc

Oh and BTW - the previous and current Presidents of Iran have confirmed the Armenian Genocide as have a number of Muslim religeous authorities:

Iran
September 09,2004:The president of Islamic Republic of Iran Seyed Mohammad Khatami visited the Memorial Complex Tsitsernakaberd in Yerevan and laid a wreath on the Memorial for the Victims of the Armenian Genocide in Ottoman Turkey in 1915.

[maral_m79]

also is there any non-Christian witness of Armenian claims?

Have you not read what I just posted above ???!!!!
I gave you ONLY ONE example of a TURKISH OFFICER's report while serving in the Ottoman army.

When will you start to do the reading Turanist ?

[1.5 million]

There will always be an excuse...aparently...(for racist idiots)...

[maral_m79]

Didn't Arabs want to make independence from Ottoman empire? Did not the Arabs fight Turkey .


maybe Refik and Halil was Kurdish???

Didn't Arabs hate Turkey.

*No they did not, the fought for their freedom.

*Maybe, maybe not .... unless you confirm it, you can't say anything about it. And even if they were Kurds .... So what ? Second class citizens huh ?

*All Turkey's neighbours might hate Turkey , again ... So what ??

[imported_Fadix]

I was reffering to Halils memoirs not Envers. Sonferdine kadaryok etmeye gahstigim Ermeni milleti Those were his words, from Halil Pasa. Ittihad ve Terakki'den Cumhuriyet'e: Bitmeyen Savas. M.Ò. Sorgun, ed. Istanbul, 1972, p. 241

As for Huseyin, this might have some importance, had his messages been limited to reports of attrocities, but he was actually making an announcement to the Muslims to protect Armenians from crimes, I fail to see how such an announcement could have been British motivated lies.

As for those that have reported and never been kicked out from their jobs. This is a poor understanding of the system I believe. Vehib as the commander of the official Third army, was not ordered to kill Armenians, what he might have believed or done could not have changed anything. You just don't change the commander of the Eastern army which was facing the Russian army, more so, when the commander has proved himself worthy after returning from the front(since it was only then that he trialed them). On the other hand, the officials who had as task to control the Armenian evacuation and instigate massacres were kicked out and even killed when they were not following orders. Mind here that Djevet was placed on Van, replacing the previous governor.

As for Said Halim, he was indeed a high graded official, he was the foreign minister and the Grand Vizier, but first, he wasn't opposing to the massacres, he was just admitting it. He only opposed it in Febuary 1917, when there was pratically no Armenians left on the East. When he opposed them, saying how orders for deportations were transformed into orders to kill the deportees, Talaat relieved him from his job, and replaced him.

As for genocide applying to CUP and not Ottoman..., yes and no. I'd term this as a genocide perpetrated by Ittihadist Ottoman.

BTW Turanist, go get yourself ubducted by an alien.

Can you give the name of the book that has the memoirs of Enver?. I would like to read the exact words. Talat pasha, in his memoirs, says that this whole deportation/exile was a failure and a big mistake.

The Sherif of Mecca, Huseyin was a British collaborator later confessed that he had done a great mistake by siding with the Brits(he was later prisoned by Brits in Cyprus). Obivously what he said or thought was definetly shaped by the Brits. Lawarence convinced the Arab rebels that Turks were infedels and Arabs should revolt against them. AS I said before I am not into wording of those events, but what the Sharif of Mecca says is pretty much irrelevant. He's being a Sharif, decendant of Prophet Mohammed(Pbuh) does not make his words true, or his actions towards Turks were justifiable. His actions were low, coming from a Holy city does not make him High.


As far as I know Vehib Pasha was the commander of the 3rd Army(Which is same today the army of the eastern region). Said Halim Pasha was a high ranking commander(correct me if I am wrong, he was the general staff) also had similar views with Vehib Pasha. You guys refer to those names I dont and these names are the highest possible ranks in the army involving the Armenain issue in those times. They had never been fired or kicked out of their ranks. Eventhough we accept 100% what Armenians say, the word genocide is not suitable for the Ottoman State but for CUP.(Vehip even executed officers/soldiers who were responsible for the deaths of Armenians, this is also told by Armenian resources, and he executed when these things happened in 1915/16, I am not talking about the executions in 1918/19). One other detail Said Halim Pasha was assasinated by Armenians.

Once again I am not into wording of these events.

[1.5 million]

Again...excuses excuses...."what - all human witnesses - humans are overcome with jealosy and can never be trusted!"

BTW - Talat Pasha's memoirs are a joke. He was scared for his life as the death sentance (from the Ottoman courts) had been passed...he was trying to justify his actions - hoping to not go down in history as such a great butcher - but we know otherwise form quotes provided by Von Wagnereim and Morgentau - Talat was proud of his role as the butcher and wished for nothing more then the complete elimination of the Armenians...Enver wished for such as well...

[1.5 million]

Fadix. Talat was a Jewish.

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(response in kind)