Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

[UKTurk]

Yes I do understand why Armenians have cause to hate us (alot of Armenians do hate Turks). But you still showing a "degree" of satisfaction regardless of context. I mean I am part Turkish Cypriot and the Greeks tried to exterminate us off the Island so does that mean if we start killing Greek "Cypriot" diplomats or even the actual perpetraitors(that still are alive and walking the streets of London and Cyprus as I type) and I support the actions of those Turkish Cypriots does that mean I'm in the same situation as you?

[1.5 million]

You fail to distinguish supporters of the radical Cypriot faction EKOA - which a facist Greek Government that was overthrown (as were the Greek Cypriots responsible) and where the current governement is 180 degrees the opposite politically - meanwhile your current Turkish Government has never denounced, admitted and rightly distanced itself from the policies of past Turkish/Ottoman governments in regards to the Armenians - in fact the current Turkish government spends millions of $ annually to perpetuate and deny the Armenian Genocide - so the situation is entirely different and cannot be compared.

Beside Turks got their revenge - and plenty more - with their unlawful overeaction against the protector agreement resulting in the destruction of Cyprus. While some action was likely necessary - what Turkey (unilaterally against the convention) did was use some admittedly nasty but fairly small scale events as an excuse to invade, occupy and commit even greater atrocities then colonise Northe rnCyprus with mainland Turks (with most natives wishing they would just go home). Turks have made a mess of the situation in Cyprus that could have been worked out and that would have resulted in a mixed nation that might have been an example to how these peoples could get along - as most Turkihs and Greek Cypriots always did. Shame....

[UKTurk]

x

[1.5 million]

Yeah - Treaty of Guarentee - thats what it was called - anyway there was no provision for unilateral action within that Treaty - Turkey violated it by acting independently and used exessive force besides - commited a great number of atrocities and set up as an occupying power. End of story.

I never said that EOKA or their fasicst backers from mainland Greece were angels - but they were quickly disposed of and in fact were hated at the time (I know Greeks who fled to the US when they took over BTW). I also very much do not condone their sporadic (and escalating) violence against Turkish Cypriots - however Turkey has cynically used this as an excuse to annex this territory and populate it with mainland Turks who do not belong there.

BTW - there is little - if anything - in common between the situation in NK to that of Cyprus. I'm very familiar with Cyprus BTW...but I really can't say more...

[maral_m79]

If what you people are saying were PROVEN FACTS, then I would accept what you are telling and not argue any further. However, your points are not a proof of genocide at all. There might have been many Armenian people killed during WWI, but that is not the same thing with a genocide. Please look at the definition of genocide before you blame Turkiye for Armenian genocide:

Genocide: The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group (yahoo dictionary, 2005)...

Of course anyone need to have a specific definition to the Crime of Genocide, first place to look in would not be yahoo dictionary, or anyother dictionary ....
The specific definition of Genocide one can obtain from the text of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide New York, 9 December 1948 . Which is available online at the United Nation website .

Ottomans DID NOT systematically kill Armenians. Those acts were not planned way ahead. It was not like Hitler killing the Jewish people. Jewish people were collected from their homes to be killed, but the Armenians were killed because of a revolution in their communities. The revolution that I am talking about is the MURDERING of half a million Turks. Yes, you read that right! So, why don't you ever bring that up? That Armenians revolted and killed half a million innocent Turks?.

How many Armenians there were in Ottoman Empire ? Let me see which number you believe that's true ......

How many Armenians were serving in the Ottoman army ? and for that you need to abstract all able men aged (18-45) from the first number which is the number of the population of Armenians.

How many Armenians left ? What kind of Armenians were left (after abstracting all able bodied men ) ?

Now let me make a quick math for you .....

There were ONLY 400,000 Armenians left (according to Turkish story) .. and those were women, childern and old ...

So you are telling me that those must've been Super women childern and old people to be able to KILL 500,000 Turks ....

Does that seem reasonable to you .... let alone that it's not based with any historical reliable source .

And the Armenians did this while the Turks were fighting with another 8 nations, including England, Russia, Arab countries, Greeks, Italians, French, Australia and New Zealand. Isn't that called hitting from somebody's back? "Well, thanks guys for killing us after living on our soil for hundreds of years in peace, and killing us while we were under attack from other enemies!" Did you expect Ottomans to say that to the Armenian citizens instead of fighting back? Total Non-Sense!

Ottomans were NOT FIGHTING ALONE ... they had German, and Austro-Hungarian allies in WWI , that's first.

And as I said above, it is NOT possible reasonably, nor logically what you are saying can be true . For your information Armenians were referred to as "Milleti Sadika" in the Ottoman Empire, even the Ottoman leaders were admiring the loyality of Armenians who SAVED their lives during the battles or the WWI , Enver Minster of War for example.

Armenians who want to be compensated for a genocide is not fair and that is not justice! Turks were hit from the back and total of 2.5 Million Turks were killed at the same time in WWI, but we are not trying to get compensated by blaming other nationalities. We are proud with what is left for us; our country, and so you guys should be. Do not become the toys for western nations who are provocating you! You used to be part of Ottoman Empire, and now you have your country and freedom. Respect those 1.5 million Armenians killed for their bravery and sacrifice for you guys so that you can have your own country. Stop blaming others for what was done 100 years ago (supposedly done), and move on! We are not crying so you shouldn't either.

Now, how can you compare army regulars, who were killed while at service with armless women , old men and childern who were killed by their own government, after beeing kicked out of their houses, and forced to march into the desert without any food medication, rest or care .... ???!!!

Have you ever read about these issues ? Take a look at the report of a Turkish Eye-Witness, Lieutenant Sayied Ahmed Moukhtar Baas who reported what did he see as a high rank officer in the Ottoman army.

[Kharpert]

anatoliandream, seeing as that you can't read, I'm going to spoon feed this to you.

To prove that these were systematic killings sponsored by the Ottoman government:
Aid For Armenians Blocked By Turkey
Genocide Quotes
Report that Ottoman Turkey is seeking to exterminate the Armenian nation
Report of Allied warning to the Ottoman government to stop the massacre of Armenians
An encrypted telegram by Talaat Pasha to the government of Aleppo
Report on the treatment of Armenian children in Trebizond, July 20, 1915

And that's just a few. I don't have the patience to post everything, so here's all the genocide archives this website has to offer. Do not ever doubt the facts of the genocide until you are prepared to dispute these archives.

And while I just presented you with a ton of evidence, you make the claim that Armenians killed 500,000 Turks without a single shred of evidence; no document, newspaper, or anything other than your own big mouth. I believe you will have to respect our evidence before we can begin to consider your viewpoints.

Also, Armenians have built most of the Ottoman Empire and Armenians have served in your armies. I know other members will elaborate on this.

The Turks that died in WWI for the most part died in battle. The 1.5 million Armenians that died in 1915 were murdered in cold blood. If you are too frightened to give a little compensation to hapless victims, then that's a shame. The west does not provoke us, we provoke the west to listen to our viewpoints, and we are slowly but surely succeeding. What small Armenian nation we have left is indeed our pride, but it was founded on the courage of survivors, not the slaughter of victims!

I'm afraid this denial is wearing far too thin, and its become a farce in academic discussion. Save yourself some respect.

For some further reading, read:
armeniangenocide.org
cilicia.org
The forgotten.org

[1.5 million]

anatoliannightmare (yeah the thought the long and illustrious cultural legacy of Anatolia being left to idiots like you is a great nightmare for all...)....you are so ignorant of the facts that you are not worth responding to. The evidence of Ottoman Turkish guilt is so overwhelming -and so meeting of the definition of genocide (that BTW was coined specifically to describe what occured to the Armenians by the murderous CUP/Turks) - that your protests to the contrary can be thought of as nothing but the pleas of a ignorant racist who will do anything to justify the crimes of his people regardless of fact. Likewise this claim of 500,000 Turks killed by Armenains and all the rest is so laughable - is obvious false propoganda - that has no factual basis whatsoever - that I encourage you to keep it up - making these baseless charges - as they only make you look pathetic and more guilty...keep it up denier....maintain your ignorance instead of learning real facts and not accepting the garbage shoveled in your face....stay stupid and pathetic for all we care...we laugh at you and rightfully deride you...

[Hovik]

Please look at the definition of genocide before you blame Turkiye for Armenian genocide:

Genocide: The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group (yahoo dictionary, 2005).

The UN Genocide Convention was adopted with the Armenian Genocide being the PRIME EXAMPLE OF GENOCIDE... was it not? The word Genocide was coined by Raphael Lemkin to describe the nameless horror of what ARMENIANS EXPERIENCED at the hands of OTTOMAN TURKS. What do you not understand about that? Do a little reading...

[Hovik]

I ask this to Turks:

If there were 500,000 Turks massacred (or as you would like to say killed by means of systematic Genocide), then "WHERE WERE ALL THE EYEWITNESSES???"

What happened to all the impartial 3rd party eyewitnesses who wrote about the facts of the Armenian Genocide? Why is there no significant body of textual evidence to prove it? How could there be SO MANY witnesses to the Armenian Genocide, but not the same to justify your claim?

I haven't come by a single shred of non-Turkish (or non-Turkish funded) evidence that substantiates your claim... can you provide me with some?

I don't want to see two-bit sites like tallarmeniantale. I want what Armenians have, western news articles, memoirs of 3rd party eyewitnesses, diplomatic reports, and more.

I'm waiting...

[1.5 million]

maybe Armenian killed all the witness as well .

also is there any non-Christian witness of Armenian claims?

also is Armenian Genocide recognised by non-Christian countries?

Yes plenty of non-Christian witnesses to the Armenian Genocide (not "claims" ashole - facts)....they are called Turks. These events were witnessed and documented by countless nationalsities who were present in Anatolai and are accepted as FACT! not claims....

Are you really so lame as to suggest that the Armenian genocide is some kind of Christian conspiracy? (hm...just like certain German.Neo-Nazis claim that the Holocaust is a Jewsih conspiracy....very interesting...and telling...you can't face up to facts ashole - and that snot my problem!)

I find it most telling that Turkoish allies during the war - the Germans - documented Turkish atrocities against Armenains - but no documentation of the reverse that you attempt to claim as true - all this while (the German's) bemoaning the lack of good evidence to use to bolster the Turkish position and provide justification for thier extreme actions...but they could not do it...are you really seriously suggesting that Armenians were just able to kill all of the witnesses? Such a bankrupt and insulting position that you take. You should be profusly apologising to us for your insults...and its only because we pity you and your stupidity that we do not mock you further....