Ataturks statue in Israel

[Steph]

I see you are still squatting in a country you know nothing about, spouting rubbish that even a spoilt-brat schoolboy would be embarassed to speak.

A clear example of the research that this particular cat makes to ensure that his posts are as correct as possible.

Houses, stones, throw, glass, in, shouldn't, people.

[ardakilic]

I think most Turks, when looking at Iran, just think about how much they have gained and how lucky they are not to be Iranians, and, regardless of their political outlooks, give a little thankyou to Ataturk.

These gains mainly didnt come from M. Kemal's personal luminosity but a process started with constitutional monarchy movement. In addition, it is so hard to say that the structure he established is secular.

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

I think most Turks, when looking at Iran, just think about how much they have gained and how lucky they are not to be Iranians, and, regardless of their political outlooks, give a little thankyou to Ataturk.

May be they have to thank Taliat and others as well? For leaving them thus waist lands of Anatolia with so many empty houses where they could live happily and build that wonderful secular democracy called Republic of turkey?

[hipeter924]

These gains mainly didnt come from M. Kemal's personal luminosity but a process started with constitutional monarchy movement. In addition, it is so hard to say that the structure he established is secular.

Turkey isn't secular, since New Zealand is truly secular I know what it means. Which is total religious tolerance + absence of religious discussion in politics + not using religious values within law, this isn't and has never been the case in Turkey.

[ardakilic]

Turkey isn't secular, since New Zealand is truly secular I know what it means. Which is total religious tolerance + absence of religious discussion in politics + not using religious values within law, this isn't and has never been the case in Turkey.

It is much more complicated in Turkey, Peter.

1. On a hand, Turkey Republic shows hostility to religion:
- It is restricted in university and even out of public buildings to wear religious clothes, especially for women.
- Properties of religious foundations are confiscated by the state (both Muslims and Christians).

2. On the other hand, Turkey Republic gives a picture of having state religion:
- Religious Affairs Administration is a constitutional establishment which serves only Sunni Muslim people to continue control over the religion.

3. On another hand, Turkey is secular according to its constitution and laws.

4. It is very hard to mention about religion harmony and tolerance both in people and state.

[may]

1. On a hand, Turkey Republic shows hostility to religion:
- It is restricted in university and even out of public buildings to wear religious clothes, especially for women.

Actually, this is not a problem of Turkey alone. In Europe (especially France) they have similar problems and discussions.

2. On the other hand, Turkey Republic gives a picture of having state religion:
- Religious Affairs Administration is a constitutional establishment which serves only Sunni Muslim people to continue control over the religion.

Something that I can add: on our ID cards, there is a section that mentions from what religion you are. Very stupid.

[ardakilic]

Actually, this is not a problem of Turkey alone. In Europe (especially France) they have similar problems and discussions.

According to law (15 March 2004), in France, religious clothes of Muslim girls are prohibited only in secondary schools. You can easily see the difference: adult people and children.

Something that I can add: on our ID cards, there is a section that mentions from what religion you are. Very stupid.

I think so.

[may]

According to law (15 March 2004), in France, religious clothes of Muslim girls are prohibited only in secondary schools. You can easily see the difference: adult people and children.

When I said "problems" I did not specifically talked about the head scarf issue. Still, the differences are not that easy to see, that's why people spend years and write dissertations about it.

"Despite their constitutionally secular status, the United States, France, and Turkey--the three cases that I examine in this dissertation--have, in fact, been deeply concerned with religion and have engaged it on many fronts. The three states’ rules regarding the wearing of headscarves reflect a broad array of policy differences among them. Yuksel Sezgin and I have prepared an index of state-religion separation based on 29 issues and 40 countries. 4 According to this index, the states maintaining the firmest separation from religion would have the score of 0.0 (0/29) and the ones with the weakest separation would have 1.0 (29/29). The score of the US is only 0.17 (5/29), whereas that of France is 0.34 (10/29) and that of Turkey is 0.48 (14/29). 5 In line with these differences, these three states have had distinct policies to regulate religion in schools. Historical and contemporary debates on secularism in all these three cases have pointed to education as the main battlefield in state-religion controversies. 6 In this study, therefore, I specifically focus on the five most publicly debated state policies on religion in schools in three cases: a) prohibitions on students’ religious dress and symbols in public schools; b) proscriptions on student-led prayer in public schools; c) restrictions on private religious education; d) the presence of religious instruction in public schools; and finally e) public funding of private schools run by religious groups. Table 2 compares my three cases regarding these five policies. Like the index data above, the table stresses a higher degree of separationism in the US, compared to France and Turkey. The ban on religious symbols exists in France and Turkey. In all three countries, students are not allowed to collectively pray in public schools. Turkey is the only one that bans private religious education; state-run religious schools and courses there have an official monopoly on religious education. Turkey is also an exception in religious instruction in all public schools. Finally, France is the only one among these three states that provides public funding to private schools run by religious groups."

Source: http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_m...0/p42250-1.php

ps: the above quotation is from page 3.

[ardakilic]

When I said "problems" I did not specifically talked about the head scarf issue. Still, the differences are not that easy to see, that's why people spend years and write dissertations about it.

"Despite their constitutionally secular status, the United States, France, and Turkey--the three cases that I examine in this dissertation--have, in fact, been deeply concerned with religion and have engaged it on many fronts. The three states’ rules regarding the wearing of headscarves reflect a broad array of policy differences among them. Yuksel Sezgin and I have prepared an index of state-religion separation based on 29 issues and 40 countries. 4 According to this index, the states maintaining the firmest separation from religion would have the score of 0.0 (0/29) and the ones with the weakest separation would have 1.0 (29/29). The score of the US is only 0.17 (5/29), whereas that of France is 0.34 (10/29) and that of Turkey is 0.48 (14/29). 5 In line with these differences, these three states have had distinct policies to regulate religion in schools. Historical and contemporary debates on secularism in all these three cases have pointed to education as the main battlefield in state-religion controversies. 6 In this study, therefore, I specifically focus on the five most publicly debated state policies on religion in schools in three cases: a) prohibitions on students’ religious dress and symbols in public schools; b) proscriptions on student-led prayer in public schools; c) restrictions on private religious education; d) the presence of religious instruction in public schools; and finally e) public funding of private schools run by religious groups. Table 2 compares my three cases regarding these five policies. Like the index data above, the table stresses a higher degree of separationism in the US, compared to France and Turkey. The ban on religious symbols exists in France and Turkey. In all three countries, students are not allowed to collectively pray in public schools. Turkey is the only one that bans private religious education; state-run religious schools and courses there have an official monopoly on religious education. Turkey is also an exception in religious instruction in all public schools. Finally, France is the only one among these three states that provides public funding to private schools run by religious groups."

Source: http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_m...0/p42250-1.php

ps: the above quotation is from page 3.

Thanks for the quotation. But i meant that even France is not hostile as Turkey about religious clothes in universities although Turkey sees it as a role-model for itself for over 80 years.

I think, not now, but especially in establishment years, Turkey's hostility against religion can only be compared to Soviet one.

[Gavur]

Re: Ataturks statue in Israel

All I have seen in my life is:TC is a evil republic, that is trying to find an honorable way to repent, not for the right reasons, only so they can keep their own power.