Ataturks statue in Israel

[Sako]

I'm just sad we couldn't ruin Miyoka up a bit more, lol, I have a few Turkish words I wanna use right now, be a great chance to test my new found Turkish skills. Miyoka, reverse your name and read it out loud so all your pals can hear you. Maybe that'll teach you all not to blabber.

[Joseph]

I'm just sad we couldn't ruin Miyoka up a bit more, lol, I have a few Turkish words I wanna use right now, be a great chance to test my new found Turkish skills. Miyoka, reverse your name and read it out loud so all your pals can hear you. Maybe that'll teach you not to blabber.

Whether we have agreements or disagreements, I won't let us suffer any fools.

[Sako]

Thank you Joseph. I hope I'll be able to repay all of you one day. It's been a great experience since I first came here. Hell, I even learned Turkish .

[PatriotTurk]

Great leader

As far as I know, Ataturk was really loved by minorities in Turkey, then and still today. Educated, modernist, he created modern institutions (gave women the right to vote before France) and was a 'good' chief of army and leader. His nationalist views had nothing to do with fascism or racism. Crushed during WW1, the Turkish people specially needed positive words, self-confidence, in order not to return to the old days (Ottoman Empire meant decadence then!) and rebuild a new country. For him and many Turks like me, the definition of Turks included Armenian, Jews etc. I think that the Armenians who don't like him don't known him enough. Or they know something I don't!

[ardakilic]

they know something I don't!

Not only the minorities, but people from different ethnicities know lots of things. Maybe you know maybe dont...

Kemalist racism caanot be understood and explained by the "need for self-confidence" because the system became racist starting from 1930s.

[Sako]

Can we drop the subject of Ataturk and his followers please? We've been through this subject a hundred times and we conclude everytime that there will always be people who will think of him as a heavenly father or a devil from hell. It's our opinions that's all, we shouldn't be hating or respecting each other any more or less whether or not we respect Ataturk or not. He has done good and a lot of bad things, period. I mean I told you all a few times that there are still people that love Stalin even though the whole world has already unveiled him. This shows how rediculous some people are so just drop this subject. We have more important things to talk about. Forgive me if I barged in suddenly, I just see that some people are starting to feel bad or out of place so let's drop it. We don't need to prove anything.

[ardakilic]

Can we drop the subject of Ataturk and his followers please? We've been through this subject a hundred times and we conclude everytime that there will always be people who will think of him as a heavenly father or a devil from hell. It's our opinions that's all, we shouldn't be hating or respecting each other any more or less whether or not we respect Ataturk or not. He has done good and a lot of bad things, period. I mean I told you all a few times that there are still people that love Stalin even though the whole world has already unveiled him. This shows how rediculous some people are so just drop this subject. We have more important things to talk about. Forgive me if I barged in suddenly, I just see that some people are starting to feel bad or out of place so let's drop it. We don't need to prove anything.

But Saco, if we dont question the history, what are we talking about? I mean, the purpose of being here AG and issues around it.

I didnot commit a "hate crime", didnot violate anyone's personal rights. If some people are disturbed by my opinions, please let us remember somebody feels uncomfortable by mentioning AG.

[Steph]

Can we drop the subject of Ataturk and his followers please? We've been through this subject a hundred times and we conclude everytime that there will always be people who will think of him as a heavenly father or a devil from hell.

Saco jan, the far easier option would be for yourself to not open this particular thread. I'm not being funny but I think this subject is very much valid in the context of what happened, what turks believe happened, what continued to happen and what will happen.

[Sako]

But Saco, if we dont question the history, what are we talking about? I mean, the purpose of being here AG and issues around it.

I didnot commit a "hate crime", didnot violate anyone's personal rights. If some people are disturbed by my opinions, please let us remember somebody feels uncomfortable by mentioning AG.

Saco jan, the far easier option would be for yourself to not open this particular thread. I'm not being funny but I think this subject is very much valid in the context of what happened, what turks believe happened, what continued to happen and what will happen.

Sorry gents , just thought this issue was pretty clear and didn't need clarification. I thought we were kinda beating the dead horse, forgive me if I was wrong or a bit bold. I have no problems whatsoever talking about Ataturk though, I'm not that sensitive and I don't blame anyone if they are. Another lesson learned, sorry guys, where did we leave off ...

[ardakilic]

Sorry gents , just thought this issue was pretty clear and didn't need clarification. I thought we were kinda beating the dead horse, forgive me if I was wrong or a bit bold. I have no problems whatsoever talking about Ataturk though, I'm not that sensitive and I don't blame anyone if they are. Another lesson learned, sorry guys, where did we leave off ...

No no i understand your point. Maybe you are bored about this Kemal issue but i think main taboo and main obstacle in freedom process of Turkey is Kemalism. And i take this issue very serious.