Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

Is anyone else disheartened and disillusioned by the lack of national mainstream media coverage on this matter?

It seems to go straight from the Boston Globe to Turkish and Israeli news agencies assisted by AP, UPI and French press agency reports but little, if any, mention of ongoing controversy in Mass., etc. on national TV or press feeds.

Don't let this story die. Beti grak tskesenk, mehat kabab sarkenk.

http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=33557

(Azerbaijani press agency report publishing some of the propaganda spewed by Turkish ambassador to Israel yesterday in Jerusalem Post re: history of Turkey with respect to J-ewish people, first nation to recognize Israel, Turkish j-ews in Turkey for 500 years, Turkey and Israel have cooperated for the last 59 years w/o interruption, the countries are great trading partners, but ADL's statement caused great controversy inside Turkey, expects Israel to exert its influence on American J-ewish lobby to prevent ADL's mistake from being repeated)

http://www.eafjd.org/spip.php?breve860&lang=en

(European lobby republishes Turkish news agency report indicating that Turkey accused ADL of relasing a statement recognizing Armenian genocide that is historically and legally baseless, that statement serves an injustice to Holocaust victims, the memory of Holocaust and sensitivities of the Turkish people)

http://www.eafjd.org/spip.php?breve861&lang=en

(Armenian lobby in Europe republishes French press agency's August 23, 2007 detailing Peres' efforts to calm Turkey down)

http://www.thenewanatolian.com/tna-28453.html

(Turkish newspaper recaps Turkish Ambassador's desparation in getting Israel to deliver on opposing Armenian genocide resolutions in U.S. Congress and keeping its golems in the American J-ewish lobby in line with the DARK SIDE's genocide denial position, basically a synopsis of the J-post article, published yesterday, which is fully considered above)

http://www.counterpunch.org/walsh08272007.html

(bi-weekly jingoist newsletter that addresses stories not covered by corporate media takes its second radical spin Foxman's genocide denial roadshow, recounts Watertown beatdown and its repercussions including recent diplomacy between Israel and Turkey and Turkey's on-going lobbying efforts, refers to ADL as the defamatory, anti-defamation league)

http://www.bloggernews.net/19713

(Pt. 3 of a 3-part blog, at blogger network website interested from reporting from citizen's perspective, inquiring if J-ews benefit from genocide denial, good analysis of recent events using news articles to bolster positions made, blog concludes that future belongs to Armenians and J-ews who work together to ensure that all crimes against humanity are condemned and no cirme against humanity forgotten)

http://www.northstarwriters.com/ss057.htm

(Michigan based writers' network that provides content to North American newspaper publishers post article by Pennsylvanian journalist that concludes that ADL's genocide recognition is not enough, talks about recent developments at national level of ADL, recaps Watertown beatdown and its repercussions at national and local level - New England - of ADL, inquiries on what basis ADL is refusing to support genocide recognition resolution currently before Congress and answers strategic relations amongst Israel, Turkey, U.S., the potential role Turkey may play in region as West's major Muslim ally whom the West views irritating would be counterproductive, cites Turkey's role on war on terrorism, adresses Foxman's controversial past, opines that the time is right for new blood at the head of ADL, does not believe it is proper to attribute ulterior motives to American J-ewish lobby though - i.e. J-ews do not want to give up ownership of genocide - and points to Darfur and unique connection between Armenian genocide and Holocuast, concludes that genocide happened, Turkey needs to come clean and apologize and interest groups and America need to push to pass the resolution and pressure Turkey to acknowledged the Armenian genocide)

http://www.newburyportnews.com/punews/local_story_239093942

(Newburyport, Mass. newspaper runs headline that Newburyport could play part in genocide controversy, city commission on Diversity and Tolerance will review No Place For Hate campaign this week, local Armenian leader suggests Newburyport should withdraw, one commission member believes program is 'fabulous' but considering withdrawal is on agenda, recaps the Watertown beatdown and local Armenian and J-ewish leaders are upset that ADL is not supporting resolution, local ANCA member believes that national should do more to push ADL and Congress to completely recognize the genocide and concludes that admitting genocide but opposing its Congressional recognition is unacceptable, and explains that Armenians who fled genocide populated the Merrimack Valley, other Armenian American leader does understand why ADL would have 'political' reasons to oppose genocide recognition referring to Turkish Israel relations and Turkish J-ews, but also believes that cities and towns should pressure ADL to fully acknowledge Armenian genocide)

http://www.thexxxishadvocate.com/this_weeks_issue/news/?content_id=3556

(Mr. Foxman writes on the dual roles of the ADL, sometimes they are in conflict, ultimately ADL's responsibility is to protect J-ewish people that includes Israel, ADL is looked upon by others to be the leader of J-ewish people, when issues put the ADL's dual roles in conflict - ADL starts with protecting the J-ewish people and then minimizing the conflict and seek approaches that maintain ADL's first mission while staying true to ADL's second purpose, that is what is happening with the controversy started in Watertown - ADL in contact with J-ewish community in Turkey for years and they are concerned about the impact American J-ews involvement in labeling Armenian tragedy a genocide will have on them and they relayed this message to ADL as recently as 2 months ago, identifies ADL as 'J-ewish defense organization', believes that Turkey should face 'moral implications' of its history with Armenians, states that ADL has told high level Turkish officials repeatedly to face the facts and speak the truth of what happened, represents that the ADL has not been neutral on genocide recognition matter but, on the contrary, placed burden on Turkey to set it right, invokes Henry Morgenthau, Sr. [god bless that lil mamser] for conclusion that tragedy that befell Armenians at hands of Ottoman Turks was equal to genocide, claims that while ADL is opposed to congressional recognition of genocide that ADL will use the word 'genocide' in the future, represents that ADL has been true to its cause, that it cannot ignore 20,000 Turkish J-ews but at the same time will push Turkey in the right direction)

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

Let's try it again. Here are the findings of fact in Senater resolution 106 re: Armenian genocide recognition. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=sr110-106

----------------------
Whereas the Armenian Genocide was conceived and carried out by the Ottoman Empire from 1915 to 1923, resulting in the deportation of nearly 2,000,000 Armenians, of whom 1,500,000 men, women, and children were killed, 500,000 survivors were expelled from their homes, and which succeeded in the elimination of more than 2,500-year presence of Armenians in their historic homeland;

Whereas, on May 24, 1915, the Allied Powers issued the joint statement of England, France, and Russia that explicitly charged, for the first time ever, another government of committing `a crime against humanity';

Whereas that joint statement stated `the Allied Governments announce publicly to the Sublime Porte that they will hold personally responsible for these crimes all members of the Ottoman Government, as well as those of their agents who are implicated in such massacres';

Whereas the post-World War I Turkish Government indicted the top leaders involved in the `organization and execution' of the Armenian Genocide and in the `massacre and destruction of the Armenians';

Whereas in a series of courts-martial, officials of the Young Turk Regime were tried and convicted on charges of organizing and executing massacres against the Armenian people;

Whereas the officials who were the chief organizers of the Armenian Genocide, Minister of War Enver, Minister of the Interior Talaat, and Minister of the Navy Jemal, were tried by military tribunals, found guilty, and condemned to death for their crimes, but the punishments imposed by the tribunals were not enforced;

Whereas the Armenian Genocide and the failure to carry out the death sentence against Enver, Talaat, and Jemal are documented with overwhelming evidence in the national archives of Austria, France, Germany, Russia, the United Kingdom, the United States, the Vatican, and many other countries, and this vast body of evidence attests to the same facts, the same events, and the same consequences;

Whereas the National Archives and Records Administration of the United States holds extensive and thorough documentation on the Armenian Genocide, especially in its holdings for the Department of State under Record Group 59, files 867.00 and 867.40, which are open and widely available to the public and interested institutions;

Whereas the Honorable Henry Morgenthau, United States Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire from 1913 to 1916, organized and led protests by officials of many countries, among them the allies of the Ottoman Empire, against the Armenian Genocide;

Whereas Ambassador Morgenthau explicitly described to the Department of State the policy of the Government of the Ottoman Empire as `a campaign of race extermination', and was instructed on July 16, 1915, by Secretary of State Robert Lansing that the `Department approves your procedure . . . to stop Armenian persecution';

Whereas Senate Concurrent Resolution 12, 64th Congress, agreed to July 18, 1916, resolved that `the President of the United States be respectfully asked to designate a day on which the citizens of this country may give expression to their sympathy by contributing funds now being raised for the relief of the Armenians,' who, at that time, were enduring `starvation, disease, and untold suffering';

Whereas President Woodrow Wilson agreed with such Concurrent Resolution and encouraged the formation of the organization known as Near East Relief, which was incorporated by the Act of August 6, 1919, 66th Congress (41 Stat. 273, chapter 32);

Whereas, from 1915 through 1930, Near East Relief contributed approximately $116,000,000 to aid survivors of the Armenian Genocide, including aid to approximately 132,000 Armenian orphans;

Whereas Senate Resolution 359, 66th Congress, agreed to May 11, 1920, stated in part that `the testimony adduced at the hearings conducted by the subcommittee of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations have clearly established the truth of the reported massacres and other atrocities from which the Armenian people have suffered';

Whereas such Senate Resolution followed the report to the Senate of the American Military Mission to Armenia, which was led by General James Harbord, dated April 13, 1920, that stated `[m]utilation, violation, torture, and death have left their haunting memories in a hundred beautiful Armenian valleys, and the traveler in that region is seldom free from the evidence of this most colossal crime of all the ages';

Whereas, as displayed in the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Adolf Hitler, on ordering his military commanders to attack Poland without provocation in 1939, dismissed objections by saying `[w]ho, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?' and thus set the stage for the Holocaust;

Whereas Raphael Lemkin, who coined the term `genocide' in 1944, and who was the earliest proponent of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide, invoked the Armenian case as a definitive example of genocide in the 20th century;

Whereas the first resolution on genocide adopted by the United Nations, United Nations General Assembly Resolution 96(1), dated December 11, 1946 (which was adopted at the urging of Raphael Lemkin), and the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide, done at Paris December 9, 1948, recognized the Armenian Genocide as the type of crime the United Nations intended to prevent and punish by codifying existing standards;

Whereas, in 1948, the United Nations War Crimes Commission invoked the Armenian Genocide as `precisely . . . one of the types of acts which the modern term `crimes against humanity' is intended to cover' and as a precedent for the Nuremberg tribunals;

Whereas the Commission stated that `[t]he provisions of Article 230 of the Peace Treaty of Sevres were obviously intended to cover, in conformity with the Allied note of 1915 . . . offenses which had been committed on Turkish territory against persons of Turkish citizenship, though of Armenian or Greek race. This article constitutes therefore a precedent for Article 6c and 5c of the Nuremberg and Tokyo Charters, and offers an example of one of the categories of `crimes against humanity' as understood by these enactments';

Whereas House Joint Resolution 148, 94th Congress, adopted by the House of Representatives on April 8, 1975, resolved that `April 24, 1975, is hereby designated as `National Day of Remembrance of Man's Inhumanity to Man', and the President of the United States is authorized and requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day as a day of remembrance for all the victims of genocide, especially those of Armenian ancestry';

Whereas Proclamation 4838 of April 22, 1981 (95 Stat. 1813), issued by President Ronald Reagan, stated, in part, that `[l]ike the genocide of the Armenians before it, and the genocide of the Cambodians which followed it--and like too many other persecutions of too many other people--the lessons of the Holocaust must never be forgotten';

Whereas House Joint Resolution 247, 98th Congress, adopted by the House of Representatives on September 10, 1984, resolved that `April 24, 1985, is hereby designated as `National Day of Remembrance of Man's Inhumanity to Man', and the President of the United States is authorized and requested to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe such day as a day of remembrance for all the victims of genocide, especially the one and one-half million people of Armenian ancestry';

Whereas, in August 1985, after extensive study and deliberation, the United Nations Sub-Commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities voted 14 to 1 to accept a report entitled `Study of the Question of the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide', which stated `[t]he Nazi aberration has unfortunately not been the only case of genocide in the 20th century. Among other examples which can be cited as qualifying are . . . the Ottoman massacre of Armenians in 1915-1916';

Whereas such report also explained that `[a]t least 1,000,000, and possibly well over half of the Armenian population, are reliably estimated to have been killed or death marched by independent authorities and eye-witnesses and this is corroborated by reports in United States, German, and British archives and of contemporary diplomats in the Ottoman Empire, including those of its ally Germany';

Whereas the United States Holocaust Memorial Council, an independent Federal agency that serves as the board of trustees of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum pursuant to section 2302 of title 36, United States Code, unanimously resolved on April 30, 1981, that the Museum would exhibit information regarding the Armenian Genocide and the Museum has since done so;

Whereas, reviewing an aberrant 1982 expression by the Department of State (which was later retracted) that asserted that the facts of the Armenian Genocide may be ambiguous, the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia in 1993, after a review of documents pertaining to the policy record of the United States, noted that the assertion on ambiguity in the United States record about the Armenian Genocide `contradicted longstanding United States policy and was eventually retracted';

Whereas, on June 5, 1996, the House of Representatives adopted an amendment to H.R. 3540, 104th Congress (the Foreign Operations, Export Financing, and Related Programs Appropriations Act, 1997), to reduce aid to Turkey by $3,000,000 (an estimate of its payment of lobbying fees in the United States) until the Government of Turkey acknowledged the Armenian Genocide and took steps to honor the memory of its victims;

Whereas President William Jefferson Clinton, on April 24, 1998, stated, `This year, as in the past, we join with Armenian-Americans throughout the nation in commemorating one of the saddest chapters in the history of this century, the deportations and massacres of a million and a half Armenians in the Ottoman Empire in the years 1915-1923';

Whereas President George W. Bush, on April 24, 2004, stated, `On this day, we pause in remembrance of one of the most horrible tragedies of the 20th century, the annihilation of as many as 1,500,000 Armenians through forced exile and murder at the end of the Ottoman Empire'; and

Whereas, despite the international recognition and affirmation of the Armenian Genocide, the failure of the domestic and international authorities to punish those responsible for the Armenian Genocide is a reason why similar genocides have recurred and may recur in the future, and that a just resolution will help prevent future genocides:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

--->>> Exactly which one of these findings of fact is Turkey disputing and what evidence are they presenting to corroborate their position?

[Sip]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

Is anyone else disheartened and disillusioned by the lack of national mainstream media coverage on this matter?

Not really. Far more important matters (in a more global sense) get brushed to the side for the more "crucial" matters like whether or not some NFL quarterback killed a few dogs.

Do you really expect matters regarding the "Armenian Genocide" are at all comparable to the NFL Quarterback and his DOGS?

[Siamanto]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

2007-08-27 13:36:00 Turkish Prime Minister says ADL [Anti-Defamation League] will recall its former statement on possible recognition of Armenian Genocide

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, stating that the xxxish lobby in the United States, the ADL
[Anti-Defamation League], which was reported to have changed its stance regarding the 1915 Armenian incidents, has sent a message to the Office of the prime minister, said that the false step made
previously has been retracted with this statement. Erdogan said: 'The indicated that, just as they have provided all the support they could until now, they will provide it in the future as well,'Anatolia news
agency reports.

Erdogan, after casting his vote in the second round of the presidential election, was questioned by journalists in the corridors: 'You spoke with [Israeli President] Shimon Perez. There are reports that the xxxish lobby in America has taken a step backwards; what are the developments in this regard?' Stating that the text with the ADL's written message had come, he said: 'They said that they share our sensitivities in particular on account of this statement regarding us, and they expressed the mistake they had made in the written fax they sent us.'

Erdogan, pointing out that he has to date suggested to Armenia that the topic be studied by a commission comprised of historians, archaeologists, and political scientists, and that politicians sit
together and work on this, noted that Armenia has not responded to him on this matter. Erdogan said: 'They [the ADL] indicate that they agree with this as well. On account of this, they expressed their
regret.'

In response to a question, Erdogan stated that a fax had come from the ADL. Asked 'are they going to declare this to the world, or will it just be limited to a fax coming to the Office of the prime minister?', he said: 'No. It has already been posted on their own [web]site.' In response to the question 'did they fax to you what is on the site?', Erdogan said 'I do not know the one on their site, but there is a fax that came to the Office of the prime minister.'

http://www.arminfo.info/

[Siamanto]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

[ SYSTRAN can be used to translate the following. Siamanto.]





(Armenians of Israel urge the J.e.ws to have a moral stance.)

RECONNAISSANCE DU GENOCIDE AUX ETATS-UNIS
Les Arméniens d’Israël réagisssent à la reconnaissance du génocide de 1915 par l’ADL et l’AJC

lundi 27 août 2007, Stéphane/armenews

Selon le quotidien israëlien « The Jerusalem Post » en date du 23 août 2007 « les Arméniens pressent les Juifs d’avoir une posture morale ».

L’état d’Israël et les organisations juives dans le monde devraient avoir une posture morale et reconnaître le massacre des Arméniens en 1915 comme un génocide indépendamment des ramifications politiques avec la Turquie selon les résidants arméniens à Jérusalem interrogé mercredi par le « Jerusalem Post » . « Israel comprend la question mieux que n’importe qui... [ mais ] son jugement est altéré par la politisation de la question » déclare le père Samuel Aghoyan, 66 ans, un prêtre du Patriarcat arménien de la vieille ville de Jérusalem et un supérieur de l’église du Saint-Sépulcre. Il a noté que seule la politique a empêché l’Israel de reconnaître le massacre comme un génocide. « Quand vous politisez la question, vous tuez l’esprit sur lequel les USA et Israel ont été fondés » déclare le père Aghoyan. « Si vous ne voulez pas le reconnaître ouvertement au moins dites ce qu’il s’est produit » a-t-il ajouté. Le directeur de l’école et de la bibliothèque arménienne dans le quartier arménien de la vieille ville de Jérusalem a déclaré que les Arméniens étaient heureux de la volte-face opérée par l’ADL. « Le lobby juif devrait comme les représentant du peuple juif - en tant que peuple qui a souffert de l’Holocauste - prendre une stature plus morale dans l’entière et sans réserve reconnaissance du massacre des Arméniens en tant que génocide, indépendamment de la politique » explique le père Norayr Kazazian, 30 ans.

Il a ajouté qu’Israel et le monde juif ne devraient pas craindre les répercussions qu’un tel mouvement pourrait entraîner sur la communauté juive habitant en Turquie, notant que des centaines de milliers d’Arméniens habitent également en Turquie et citant les bonnes relations de la Turquie avec la France et la Belgique bien que les deux pays ont défini les massacres comme un génocide. « Je sais que le peuple juif est avec nous et reconnaît les massacres comme un génocide mais ce sont les intérêts politiques qui empêchent la Knesset et les groupes juifs de faire de même » a déclaré Hagop Antressian, 63 ans, un vieux commerçant de ville. Fils d’un survivant du massacre, Hagop Antressian dit que les juifs et arméniens ont partagé une tragédie commune. Il note que quand il observe des films sur l’Holocauste il voit non pas des enfants juifs mais des enfants arméniens. « Ce sont les yeux de mon père quand il avait sept ans » dit-il. Il est d’avis que le passage aux USA d’une résolution du Congrès qui qualifiera les massacres en tant que génocide est « seulement une question de temps »" ajoutant que la résolution est le produit d’intellectuels juifs et arméniens.

Hagop Antressian a fustigé les récentes remarques du directeur exécutif du Comité juif américain David Harris comme quoi les historiens arméniens et turcs devraient s’asseoir ensemble et discuter du génocide. « Si nous demandons aux historiens juifs et nazis de discuter de l’Holocauste ? » a-t-il demandé. En tant que résident de Jérusalem, Hagop Antressian a indiqué qu’il était important pour lui qu’Israel ne soit pas le dernier pays à reconnaître les massacres comme un génocide. « Je sais les sentiments du peuple juif et je ne veux pas que l’état juif soit le dernier à reconnaître le génocide » a-t-il dit. Les résidants arméniens de Jérusalem sont d’avis que par la suite tous les pays vont reconnaître les massacres comme un génocide. « tôt ou tard le bon moment viendra » a conclut le père Aghoyan.

(Translated from "Zaman," a jurkish newspaper: Basically, the author believes that J.e.ws and Americans, despite their public declarations, privately believe that it was a genocide and, sooner or later, it will be recognized as such. Also, he believes that fighting against the recognition proved to be more painful and "punitive" than simply recognizing the facts; therefore, he thinks that there's a need for "plan B" i.e. prepare the jurkish public opinion for the worse and rethink the jurkish strategy.)

RECONNAISSANCE DU GENOCIDE AUX ETATS-UNIS
« Il est temps d’avoir un plan B pour le « génocide » » par Ali H. Aslan

lundi 27 août 2007, Stéphane/armenews

« Il est temps d’avoir un plan B pour le « génocide » » par Ali H. Aslan

Journal « Zaman » en date du 24 août 2007

Ca y est nous y sommes. La ligue Anti-Diffamation (ADL) a publié un communiqué reconnaissant le "génocide arménien." C’est la première approbation publique de la cause arménienne par une organisation juive américaine de cette importance. Est-ce que je suis étonné ? Pas nécessairement - j’ai su que cela allait venir. De mes conversations avec des représentants de groupes de lobbys juifs américains, j’ai eu l’impression qu’il n’y avait aucun consensus sur cette question controversée. Ne faites pas d’erreur, il y a toujours eu un certain accord dans la communauté juive américaine sur le fait que ces événements étaient "équivalents à un génocide." C’est le même cas avec la plupart des autres "amis" de la Turquie. Mais la croyance de quelque chose est une chose, et l’indiquer publiquement en est une autre. Récemment, il y a eu évidemment une tendance à parler plus ouvertement de cette question. La position de l’ADL est ceci : Oui, c’était génocide, mais le congrès des USA ne devrait pas le dire. Franchement, par certains côtés, je trouve l’ADL intellectuellement plus honnête que beaucoup d’autres organisations juives. Les organisations juives qui sont les mieux investits dans les relations Turco-Israélo-Américaines avaient essayé d’être politiquement correctes envers la Turquie. L’ADL est plus honnête parce c’est ce que la plupart des organisations juives ont toujours cru mais qu’elles n’avaient jamais dit encore publiquement. L’ADL s’est toutefois arrêter avant de soutenir la résolution d’un génocide arménien au congrès parce qu’elle pense que ce serait "contreproductif." Si on reconnait le génocide juif (c’est-à-dire l’Holocauste) cela devrait avoir des conséquences mais "un génocide arménien", celà ne devrait pas en avoir, ce n’est pas complètement honnête.

C’est le problème principal avec la position de l’ADL.

D’autre part, pour être juste, quand on vient à parler des questions politiquement chargées comme les allégations arméniennes de génocide, s’attendre à une pleine honnêteté de n’importe quelle partie concernée serait du luxe.

Il y a des lacunes sérieuses entre les positions publiques et privées. Prenez le gouvernement des USA par exemple. Publiquement, il évite de l’appeler "génocide." Mais je suis sûr qu’en privé la plupart des fonctionnaires croient que c’en est un . "Nettoyage ethnique" et "exil forcé" ne sont pas pas des sujets de fierté, pour n’importe qu’elle nation. Quand le gouvernement des USA emploie de tels termes au lieu du génocide, nous, Turcs, en sommes soulagés ! En somme, bien que la branche exécutive convienne profondément qu’il y a eu un génocide contre des Arméniens, elle refuse de l’appeler comme tel que parce que c’est "contreproductif." Ce qui est en jeu ici pour eux est encore l’intimidation des Turcs et la sauvegarde des intérêts des USA en Turquie et dans son voisinage. Les trois principaux sujets de la politique étrangère pour les USA dans notre région de nos jours — l’Irak, l’Iran et l’Afghanistan — exigent la coopération continue d’Ankara. Quant au congrès des USA, c’est une autre histoire. Même parmi les prétendus "amis" de la Turquie, y compris le groupe d’amitié USA-Turquie, il n’y a pas de doute que les événements de 1915 étaient équivalents d’un "génocide." Deux cents et vingt-cinq des 435 représentants ont publiquement approuvé la résolution arménienne. Encore la plupart de ceux qui n’ont pas encore soutenu publiquement la résolution croient qu’elle serait "contreproductive" pour indiquer ce qu’ils pensent. Il est facile d’examiner mon analyse. Dites-moi combien de représentants des USA ont publiquement dit que jusqu’ici il n’y a aucune telle chose comme un génocide arménien. Vous vous en rappellerez à peine. Les sénateurs ont généralement plus d’attitude d’homme d’Etat que les représentants ; donc la position du sénat tomberait légèrement entre la branche de l’exécutive et la Chambre. Maintenant que l’ADL a ouvert la boîte de Pandore de la part des groupes des puissants lobbys Juifs, la Turquie relève un plus grand défi. Quelque soit la personne à qui j’ai parlé à Washington dit que tôt ou tard une résolution sue le génocide Arménien passera. C’est simplement une question de synchronisation et de convenance. Heureusement, les problèmes sérieux auxquelles les USA font face dans notre région ont rendu moins commode pour que les politiciens américains finalisent la résolution. Bien que les leaders du Congrès avec le parti démocratique semblent être plus enclins à avancer, il n’est pas complètement peu probable que les arguments "d’intérêt national" et "de sécurité nationale" régnent de nouveau. Les lobbys arméniens et leurs collaborateurs aux USA essayent avec difficulté de punir la Turquie avec cette résolution. Franchement, je crois que le processus jusqu’ici a été une punition encore plus dure que les résultats finaux. La question consomme une considérable énergie et des ressources de la diplomatie turque qui pourrait être dépensées autrement en poursuivant des intérêts nationaux plus réels. Nous pourrions dépenser notre capital politique et celui de nos défenseurs sur d’autres questions. Je ne veux pas ressembler à un défaitiste mais comme un réaliste sur des sujets de politique étrangère sur lesquels je pense qu’Ankara doit prendre une seconde considération si la question mérite ce niveau d’engagement. Plus la Turquie semble être intimidée, plus les erreurs que nous faisons, plus la publicité que la thèse d’un génocide arménien obtient et plus nos adversaires internationaux deviennent heureux. Nous avons évidemment perdu le débat parmi les intellectuels des USA, sommes de plus en plus perdants parmi les O.N.G comme l’ADL — et il semble que tôt ou tard nous allons perdre la bataille au congrès des USA. Peut-être maintenant est-il temps de préparer le public turc pour des résultats plus négatifs et pour réfléchir sur de meilleures stratégies plutôt que de se coller avec la même vieille tactique. Traduction Nouvelles d’Armenie Magazine

(Shimon Peres calls Tayyip Erdogan to reassure him and invites the J.e.ws to stay out of it)

GENOCIDE
Shimon Peres tient à rassurer la Turquie

lundi 27 août 2007, Virginie/armenews


Suite à la décision de l’ADL, la ligue anti-diffamation (organisation juive) américaine de reconnaitre le génocide arménien, le président israélien Shimon Peres aurait téléphoné au Premier ministre turc Recep Tayyip Erdogan pour l’assurer du maintien des liens rapprochés entre les deux pays, a indiqué vendredi un proche d’Erdogan.

« C’était une discussion fructueuse, a dit Erdogan à l’AFP. Peres a compris l’importance des relations israélo-turques. »

Mercredi, l’ambassade israélienne à Ankara a indiqué que l’Etat juif reconnaissait les « horribles évènements » et la « terrible souffrance » que les Arméniens ont enduré, mais a enjoint les juifs à ne pas prendre parti.

« Le sujet est devenu, au fil des ans, un problème politique entre Arméniens et Turcs. Cependant, Israël a demandé à ce que qu’aucun parti ne soit pris et à ne pas définir les évènements produits en 1915. Nous espérons que les deux camps parviendront à dialoguer », a déclaré l’ambassade.

La Turquie est lé pricipal allié d’Israël depuis leur accord de coopération militaire signé en 1996, provoquant la colère des pays arabes et de l’Iran. Mais la guerre américaine en Irak et les relations israélo-palestiniennes ont conduit à une hausse du sentiment anti américain et anti isrélien au sein de l’opinion publique turque.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

http://news.trend.az/cgi-bin/readnews2.pl?newsId=984028&lang=EN

(I'm assuming this is an example of the "dispassionate scholarly" examination of the Armenian allegations of Genocide that Foxman was suggesting; Azerbaijani newssource reports that Turkish parliament and UN are going to discuss genocide of 120 Azeribaijanis in Azerbaijan by Armenians in 1918; claims the expert group and historians have described the event as genocide)

No wonder Foxman loves the J-urks, they are both liars and propagandists, making baseless claims to protect racist nations that are grounded in Zionism and Turkishness.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/08/more_on_recognizing_the_armeni.html

(rebuttal piece to Bostom's recent piece stating that Congress must recognize Armenian Genocide; cites skepticism over benefit to Armenians almost a century after the fact inlcuding skepticism of descendant of genocide survivors)

http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=2706

(Journal for J-urkish international strategic thinktank publishes article linking Armenians to Interational terrorism and claiming Canada is soft soldier in the War on Terror; references 25 yr. anniversary of murder of Turkish colonel by alleged Armenian terrorists, that killers never apprehended, tries to claim that international terrorism was beseiging Canada long before it reared its ugly head in U.S. by pointing to 1985 Air India bombing and assassination of Turkish diplomat in 1982, article alleges that Canada knew about the pending assassination but did nothing and delayed response allowing murderers to get away, rips Canadian government for recently recognizing Armenian genocide as a miscarriage of justice rewarding Armenian terrorism)

Wow... From, genocide deniers to terrorist accusers in less than a week. Next, Armenians will be accused for the crucifixion. Armenian defamers are everywhere and they are encouraged by Foxman's rhetorical psychobabble.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/103840.html

(J-ewish newssource reports ADL's rehiring and reinstating Andrew Tarsy as New England's regional director for ADL effective immediately; perhaps this is a sign that Foxman is about to get the boot)

(Armenian newssource reports that British parlimentarian is besides himself that Great Britain has not recognized Armenian genocide as of yet)

Hayots Ashkharh, Armenia
Aug 25 2007


TO RECOGNIZE IN THREE MINUTES


`Don't ask me why by now Great Britain hasn't joint the world's 20
countries that have recognized Armenian Genocide. Had the issue
depended on me I would recognize it in three minutes.' MP of the
United Kingdom Parliament Steffen Pound, who has visited Armenia by
the initiation of ARF Commission on Armenian Cause in England, said
during the press conference yesterday.
Steffen Pound is himself interested in why Great Britain doesn't
want to recognize Armenian Genocide. The British MP has asked this
question to the British Foreign Ministers, who answered that at that
time the word `genocide' didn't exist. `This seems to be more like a
juridical commentary and the moral side is overlooked,' he said. By
the way Great Britain has recognized Holocaust and all the other
genocides following it.
The British parliamentarian is surprised at the fact that his
leadership can ask for forgiveness for the slavery of the Irish
people in the 19th century and meanwhile hesitates to manifest
determination towards Turkey and recognize the genocide conducted by
them. `To refute Genocide, means to commit another crime,' S. Pound
states.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

http://www.gloucestertimes.com/punews/local_story_239115646

(Gloucester, Mass. newspaper republishes condensed version of article in Newburyport newspaper re: town's human rights commission considering withdrawing from ADL's NO PLACE FOR HATE [unless you are armenian] campaign)

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2007/08/antidefamation_1.html

(Boston Globe's Keith O' Brien confirms previous breaking news by JTA re: Tarsy's rehiring and immediate reinstatement as director of ADL's New England office; cites Foxman as stating decision to re-hire was not to appease critics; Foxman claims that he and Tarsy now see "eye to eye" and want to move forward together rather than apart; Foxman is "delighted to have him back"; neither Tarsy nor Foxman disclosed what they actually discussed but O' Brien references regional board's unanimous decision to request that Tarsy be re-hired and Foxman's reversal on ADL's previous genocide denial stance, quotes Tarsy as stating that Foxman's acknowledgment of genocide made him proud and paved the way for his return, Tarsy quoted as saying "The ADL has confronted the moral issue and acknowledged the genocide and I think that is something that speaks for itself,")

Dude, like, you know, Owen Wilson attempted to take his own life over the weekend, but his nose got in the way, you know...News at 5, 6 and 11. Watch to find out.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

What time is it. GAMETIME! Woof!

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/13988748/detail.html

(ABC's Boston affiliate covers Tarsy's reinstatement and rehiring by ADL national; report details that Foxman caved in re: ADL's anti-genocide position after pressure from American-Armenians and American-J-ews originating from his firing of Tarsy who believed the ADL should recognize the Armenian genocide, Tarsy claims his re-hiring was an act of leadership by Foxman, report recognizes that ADL's governing body will revisit the Armenian issue in November)

http://www.wbur.org/news/2007/69918_20070828.asp

(Boston's NPR affiliate broadcasts same story re: Tarsy rejoining ADL New England as its regional director; Tarsy claims J-ewish community, which has so many interests, must look at every issue through complicated lens; and ADL should be proud of how it handled difficult moral issue re: Armenian genocide)

http://www.eyewitnessnewstv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6990381&nav=F2DO

(Fox's Providence, Rhode Island affiliate broadcasts AP report re: Tarsy rejoining ADL)

http://www.telegram.com/article/20070827/APN/708270870

(Worcester, Mass. republishes AP report re: Tarsy's return)

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=1019464

(Boston Herald carries same AP report)

http://www.pr-inside.com/xxxish-group-in-us-rehires-regional-r210680.htm

(As does Austrian PR agency)

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=120583

(Turkish newsource still spinning J-urkishly; same nonsense displaying Turkish officials desperately seeking Israel's assistance in ensuring American J-urkish lobby toes the line on Turkey's genocide denial stance)

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=120582

(same newssource publishes opinion piece that comes off far more intelligent than anything else coming out of the J-urkish spin cycle; contributor begins by indentifying 18 nations that recognize Armenian genocide and that U.S. may be next; ADL's shift currently acknowledging Armenian genocide caused uproar in Turkey; Foxman waffled after learning of response to his reversa and Turkey considers his initial statement acknoweldging genocide a serious blow as ADL has been a rabid supporter for Turkey in lobbying against Armenian and Greek lobbies in Congress; Turkey and its people perceive that Israel has a strong bond with J-ews everywhere and, quoting Ambassador Tan, Turkish people are unable to differentiate between its relationship with Israel and the xxxish people and considers relationship with the whole J-ewish world [perhaps, that's really a veiled threat in case American J-urkish lobby loses on U.S. genocide recogntion]; cites Tan's belief that Israel has great influence on American J-urkish lobby as "we all know the coordinate their efforts [with Israel]" and strong bond between Israel and American J-urkish lobby has serious impact on Turkey-Israel relations; identifies two recent stains other than Watertown beatdown repercussions in Turkish-Israel relations that influenced American J-urkish lobby - Erdogan claiming Israel agression against Palestinians in 2004 was "state terror" - Turkey's hosting exiled Hamas leader last year in Ankara - Israel's training of Kurds in norther Iraq following 2003 Iraqi invasion - 1997, candidate for Israeli ambassador to Turkey recongized Armenian Genocide which caused such controversy that ended with candidate rejecting the position; in order to appease the American J-ewish lobby over his 'state terror' comments, Erdogan awarded Israel a $185 mil. unmanned aerial vehicle contract before his 05 visit to Israel and is allegedly using Israeli unamanned aerial vehicle to track members of PKK in Turkey's southeast; contributor inquires how long Turkey will throw money at genocide denial campaign when more countries are coming onboard to recognize 1915 events as genocide; details how Turkey has kept quiet for 92 years about 1915 events rather than producing evidence rebutting Armenian claims of genocide; references Turkey's 2004 offer to Armenian to form commission for researching Armenia's genocide allegations that was not accepted by Armenia and which US made no attempts to encourage Armenia to participate; questions usefulness of such a commission when events are continuously being labelled genocide; suggests that if Turkey offers Armenia olive branches in other arears - opening border, starting diplomatic relations, convening investigation committee re: genocide - that pressure being exerted on Turkey to submit on Armenian genocide issue may subside including the pressure being exerted on Armenia by its strong diaspora; may not agree with the female contributor but atleast she makes an intelligent presentation)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070827/wr_nm/google_youtube_neonazi_dc??

(yes, yes, anti-semitic, German neo-nazis spreading hate propaganda still fashionable in media circles but apparently the media does not know what to make of genocide denying, Turkish supporting, Zionist, American J-ewish lobby organizations offending Armenian sensitivities in American sensitivities through purported anti-bias, anti-bigotry, anti-discrimination programs; or the media is merely cow-towing to its major ad dollar donors, can't figure out which one it is; but, Huffingtonpost almost immediately republished this story on its website today)

[Siamanto]

Re: Watertown Armenians in arow over ADL's anti-genocide stance

http://news.trend.az/cgi-bin/readnew...984028&lang=EN

(I'm assuming this is an example of the "dispassionate scholarly" examination of the Armenian allegations of Genocide that Foxman was suggesting; Azerbaijani newssource reports that Turkish parliament and UN are going to discuss genocide of 120 Azeribaijanis in Azerbaijan by Armenians in 1918; claims the expert group and historians have described the event as genocide)

I'm afraid that the jurks are right! Considering the geographic location of Guba and the astronomical number of the, probably non-identified, skeletons, who else and what else can it be????
Map of Azerbaijan, Guba is in "yellow."

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/103840.html

(J-ewish newssource reports ADL's rehiring and reinstating Andrew Tarsy as New England's regional director for ADL effective immediately; perhaps this is a sign that Foxman is about to get the boot)

A slap? He shouldn't be happy.

identifies ANCA as a radical Armenian group that is asking the ADL to do more [I just fell off my chair - ANCA radical?? more like reactive]

Reactive....as in A(rmenian) R(eactionary) F(orces?) :