Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

A culture that wasn't made up from weird fantasies and dictatorship. Instead Armerican Culture is something these days we call democracy, republic and religious freedom.

It was a reply for the comment above which was written bu someone I don't remember.

I did not write them to legitimize Turkey's actions.

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Man i like ur kind of people cause u all give me the motives to hate u,u just keep insulting other people intelligence and u keep playing the "i am superior from u and am a nice guy"living in ur fantastic world,in millenniums we can see nations come and go,nation that has no identity its doomed to expire over time.
U have all the time the "i don't know who i am and were do i come from"crisis,so u need to make 1 false history cause in bottom line ur nation cant exists in 21 century of democracy.
U have to explain allot of stuff that are not european originate the only thing that save u is the democratic stance of europe and the globalism,u are 2 different,ur position makes u natural enemy of europe as it were the Byzantine empire before u.

Am I superior than you, i don't know. If I am, it is not bcoz I am a Turk, that I can say. I know who I am and I definetely know where I come from. The point is being Turkish in Turkey is not a racial thing. You are trying to impose it and I am rejecting. And yes, it was M. Kemal who I respect deeply created Turkish nation from disappearance not physically but practically as the result of treaty of Sevres. Turks were the last members of tebaa (they were masses not citizens) who were liberated from Ottomans by the foundation of the Republic. There was no other way of liberating the muslim masses of Ottomans in Anatolia without putting them together under an umbrella which I call the Turkish nationality.

Did assimilation take place in Turkey, yes. Were masses (we can not mention citizens before the republic) forced to speak Turkish, yes. I don't deny any of these and I think they were bad and sad things and TO A CERTAIN EXTENT they were necessary. A revolution took place in Turkey by demolishing all the old beliefs of the muslim community and giving them a new identity and citizenship. This identity made us us. This identity provided us to be enjoy our independence. None of this could've happened without the independence war and the actions of the Republic. Some of the Muslims of Anatolia (Arabs, Circassians, lazs,...) might know their origins and some might not. But be aware that all of them are glad bcoz their grandfathers faught and died for them. And all are happy being called Turks. Right now, it is totally wrong to prevent people speak their mother tangue (my parents' native language is not Turkish and in 1980's due to the coup d'etat, my grand parents must have had some bad time.) People should be able to freely enjoy their cultures, religions etc.

What I am simply saying is that apart from Kurds (assimilation is for sure not ok in 21st century), people regardless of their ethnicities call themselves Turks in context of Turkish nationality, I am an example of this. Saying that people in Turkey do not have a culture is ignorance. If there is one thing which will make this nation survive, it is the culture this nation possesses. It is Turkish people's love for independence. As long as you do not threaten my nation, I am your friend.

As a clarification: I do not approve my country's stance against Kurds. I do not approve my country's denial for many things. We were taught as if no armenians or Greeks lived in Anatolia. We still have a propaganda machine running. We still have problems with free speech. Military is still influential in politics (decreasing). We have stupid laws like 301. People are taught to love Ataturk (we should teach students what he did, let the student decide what to do), he still can not be criticized,............

[Gavur]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Ethnic cleansing Kurds? There are 12M-15M Kurds in Turkey. If Turkey was to make ethnic cleansing, how could their population increase much more faster than that of Turks?



You are applying everything just to make Turks seem inferior which decreases your credibility.

>Discrimination of black for how many years?
>slavery
>atomic bombings
>not to mention what was done to Native Americans
>death of thousands of Iraqi civilians just bcoz of the non-existing WMD's
.
.
.



We don't claim those lands, we have them.

Mmm, this is pretty juicy! if peter doesn't respond soon, I have the urge to stump on this nonsense.

Firat are you running on low? go rest, you don't have to go tit for tat if you have certain convictions.Don't shoot from the hip, its unbecoming of you.You're starting to sound like Palavraoglu just about now...

[UrMistake]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

If believing Turks do not have any identity makes you happier, so it is.
What does it change? What I care in the first place is the wealth of my country and its people. Let others think what ever they want. Some believe that Turks are Mongolians some others believe just the opposite since they don't look like Mongolians and mixed up with every race in Anatolia. What do these change? Nothing

Do people in Anatolia call themselves Turks, yes. Do they speak Turkish, yes. Do they enjoy the beauty of the country, yes. Do they own the country, yes.

Man i like ur kind of people cause u all give me the motives to hate u,u just keep insulting other people intelligence and u keep playing the "i am superior from u and am a nice guy"living in ur fantastic world,in millenniums we can see nations come and go,nation that has no identity its doomed to expire over time.
U have all the time the "i don't know who i am and were do i come from"crisis,so u need to make 1 false history cause in bottom line ur nation cant exists in 21 century of democracy.
U have to explain allot of stuff that are not european originate the only thing that save u is the democratic stance of europe and the globalism,u are 2 different,ur position makes u natural enemy of europe as it were the Byzantine empire before u.

[Kiffer]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

when I use Just == think about the . The government has to stop anything against country's interests.

From this point of view, Turkish government is rational (it protects Turkey's interests). Let me be clear, I hate the way the world is. But US or Russian government has done the very same things over and over in every war their countries engaged. USA only apoligised after the problems are settled down.
-Turkey is not in the position to admit anything.

Yes, sometimes politics sucks and do not judge me based on what I wrote since this is an analysis of the reality.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Not only the Turkish Government, but all the countries do the same thing, look at England, France and above all
Germany during the génocide. And even the US. They all
shut their eyes, they had all the letters from diplomats,
but they did not do anything. Even now, when we have the TV and Internet, we see what's going on in many countries,
Amnesty International makes a report, and the Red Cross
tries tu help, but milions of people are killed or die from
hungry.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Ethnic cleansing Kurds? There are 12M-15M Kurds in Turkey. If Turkey was to make ethnic cleansing, how could their population increase much more faster than that of Turks?



You are applying everything just to make Turks seem inferior which decreases your credibility.

>Discrimination of black for how many years?
>slavery
>atomic bombings
>not to mention what was done to Native Americans
>death of thousands of Iraqi civilians just bcoz of the non-existing WMD's
.
.
.

.
.
.
.

Your list of attrocities is far too short in my opinion.

If we are to draw parallels between the Ottoman Empire and the United States, the governmental policies are very similar. However, the United States has had quite a bloody history since its conception and is probably the most destructive empire yet. What makes it even worse is they are surrounded by water and friendly neighbours to the north yet they still can't seem to stop killing and making enemies.

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

You can try and make that claim when you stop ethnic cleansing and wiping out Kurds.

Ethnic cleansing Kurds? There are 12M-15M Kurds in Turkey. If Turkey was to make ethnic cleansing, how could their population increase much more faster than that of Turks?

A culture that wasn't made up from weird fantasies and dictatorship. Instead Armerican Culture is something these days we call democracy, republic and religious freedom.

You are applying everything just to make Turks seem inferior which decreases your credibility.

>Discrimination of black for how many years?
>slavery
>atomic bombings
>not to mention what was done to Native Americans
>death of thousands of Iraqi civilians just bcoz of the non-existing WMD's
.
.
.

The fact is that Armenians and Greeks have existed on their lands far longer than Turks. Turks are a modern invention compared to Armenians and Greeks who have existed since ancient times. So you can lay claim, but Armenians and Greeks have a far stronger claim.

We don't claim those lands, we have them.

[firat]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

I see that you absolutely do not know Armenians. There is nothing more important for us than what you call "emotional connection to ancestral lands" - that is what we call IDENTITY- a thing that turks do not have naturally and trying to create artificially
We have survived in isolation and will survive as long as it is needed. No one will give up on our "sentiments" just because of access to some ports of secondary importants.

It seems you did not understand me at all. I don't want Armenians to instinct. Governers of my country think that isoloting Armenia is the best for the interests of the country and it is a rational decision since Armenia does not recognize the territorial integrity of Turkey. I have some other reasons to believe open borders are good for the relationship between two nations. Turkey already sells lots of goods to Armenia via Georgia why should Georgia make money out of the trade between Turkey and Armenia? But I am definetely not sure what Turkey should do since I am not an expert on the issue.


If believing Turks do not have any identity makes you happier, so it is.
What does it change? What I care in the first place is the wealth of my country and its people. Let others think what ever they want. Some believe that Turks are Mongolians some others believe just the opposite since they don't look like Mongolians and mixed up with every race in Anatolia. What do these change? Nothing

Do people in Anatolia call themselves Turks, yes. Do they speak Turkish, yes. Do they enjoy the beauty of the country, yes. Do they own the country, yes.

Bottom line is you can believe whatever you want. This does not change a thing. You can't get to any point by proving the origin of Turks. What matters is that how people in Turkey perceive themselves.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

Regarding to Kurds that want combine with the Kurdish state in Iraq, do you think they want to lose the opportunity to live in Istanbul, Ankara or Izmir for the sake of their own independent state?

The most stupid decision ever.

What about millions of Kurdish people in Istanbul? Why should Turkey keep them if a new Kurdish state is formed within the boundaries of Turkey? I really can not make discrimination among the citizens of my country let it be Kurdish descent, Turkish or Arab, but I guess this question is legitimate, what about the Kurds in Istanbul?


Right now, there is a significant gap between the money spent to SouthEast of Turkey and the amount of tax collected. I sometimes think if it really worths to do this

Anyway, I am really confident that that Kurdish issue in Turkey is a combination of feudal structure, lack of infrastructure, low level of education and Turkey's anti-democratic stance against Kurds. The republic failed to transform them into citizens from masses to a certain extent.

I guess this all remains to be seen as the Kurds are given more and more power in northern Iraq.

Kurds pump oil into Turkey

[Mukuch]

Re: Erdogan Finally Admits Turkey Practiced Ethnic Cleansing

why? My ancestors were owner of these lands(and they called themself, greek,armenian, hitit ext.) so I have every right to own these lands. (and As I said before, It is not your job to interest whatever I call myself.)

I changed my nationality and religion. So what, armenians were neither urartus nor stayed loyal to their older religions.

Don’t be ridiculous: you call yourself a turk- means your ancestors were nomad Mongols. Where did you see nomads own land? LOL