Vive La France !!!!!

[Sip]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

The ability to choose to believe in higher standards of humanity is a privilege for people who live in stable and secure societies or for the terminally niaive.

I don't know what you mean with "terminally niaive" but I definitely think you are right in the first part. So now you have to ask yourself where did these "stable and secure societies" come from. You can have the illusion of security and stability (perhaps for very very long times even) based on oppression, censorship, and forcibly silencing the opposition ... or you can try for the better I know you are emotionally tied to this particular situation so I understand why you are getting so angry at what I have said and choose to insult me rather than understand what I am trying to tell you. But part of this higher way of thinking that I am advocating is to let you do that freely.

[hrai]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

If you want to base your life on how Turks form their own societies, by all means, feel free. Yes, they criminalize unpopular speech. They would kill those that may dare to bad mouth their beloved Ataturk. They choose to rewrite books and suppress voices of anyone that might disagree with their beliefs.

If you want to live in their ways, if you want to form societies that mimic their thinking, it is your prerogative.

Some people, "woolly liberals" as you may call them, choose to believe in higher standards of humanity. There is no doubt in my mind there are better ways than the Turkish ways that you want to endorse here.

You are really scraping the barrel here by trying to equate actions which stop/prevent the final phases of genocide with the turc policies of criminalising 'unpopular speech'.

Your sanctimonious comment re "higher standards of humanity" turns my stomach. How many people perished because they believed that turcs had higher standards of humanity, how many people were easily deceived by the deportations, how many people believed our neighbors couldn't do this, how many people died after returning to Armenia after WW1, how many people died because they believed in the higher standards of humanity of the western Allies, how many people died because they tried to reach accomodation with ataturd, how long would Armenia last if the borders were opened, as a lot of woolly liberals wish for?

History tells us that the turc will never change, never ever.



The ability to choose to believe in higher standards of humanity is a privilege for people who live in stable and secure societies or for the terminally niaive.

[Sip]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

"freedom of speech"...........This law is aimed at stopping the continuation of the Genocide by it's denial

Woolly liberals open the door to wolves.

If you want to base your life on how Turks form their own societies, by all means, feel free. Yes, they criminalize unpopular speech. They would kill those that may dare to bad mouth their beloved Ataturk. They choose to rewrite books and suppress voices of anyone that might disagree with their beliefs.

If you want to live in their ways, if you want to form societies that mimic their thinking, it is your prerogative.

Some people, "woolly liberals" as you may call them, choose to believe in higher standards of humanity. There is no doubt in my mind there are better ways than the Turkish ways that you want to endorse here.

[Sip]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

I find your logic totally warped.

You seem to think the principle of “freedom of speech” is above the principle of “ not causing injustice through freedom of speech”.
Well I do not think so.

Justice and injustice are about ACTIONS. I am 100% for punishing bad actions. So don't misunderstand that while I maintain that speech shouldn't be censored (in any form), I still 100% am for demanding justice for the criminal actions committed by the Turks. The fact that some people are denying truth is completely irrelevant. There is no question about what the truth is here.

[Mos]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Turkish whining is so immature. I'm glad our compatriots are pushing this in France. We need to constantly pressure Turkey and put this issue in the public sphere.

[UrMistake]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

I hope when the time come for Turkish State to pay up they will also show such zeal ....

[Mher]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

French MP Valerie Boyer behind Armenian Genocide Bill to be a condom brand

Valérie Boyer, French deputy, who worked out bill on criminalization of alleged Armenian Genocide denial and which went through at French Parliament on December 22 will be a condom brand in Europe.

Paris / NationalTurk – Valerie Boyer’s image will appear on condoms, as a Turkish entrepreneur residing in France will introduce a condom brand bearing the name Valerie Boyer into the market.

Ahmet Yildiz, a Turkish citizen, living and working in France, is hopeful for his trademark brand Valerie Boyer condoms. His motive for putting a condom with Valerie Boyer’s name on it, stresses Yildiz :
Armenian Genocide bill maker Valerie Boyer to appear on condoms

” I wanted to show everyone that we as Turks won’t stay unresponsive what ma’am Valerie Boyer has started with the draft of criminalization of Armenian Genocide denial. I think the Valerie Boyer condoms will be a success.” said the Turkish businessman.

Turks in France have approved the Valeri Boyer condom brand. France wonders how Valerie Boyer will react to the condom with her face and name on it.

http://www.nationalturk.com/en/french-mp-valerie-boyer-behind-armenian-genocide-bill-to-be-a-condom-brand-15663

[Mher]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Turkey launches Sarkozy diaper line to “spite” France
January 7, 2012 - 14:49 AMT

PanARMENIAN.Net - Following production of male condoms carrying the name of French MP Valerie Boyer, the author of the bill criminalizing Armenian Genocide denial, a line of Sarkozy baby diapers, trash bags, toilet and tissue papers was started.

With the brand name Sarkozy accepted by Turkish Patent Institute, products named after the French President were sold in ten days at www.sarkozy.com.tr, independent French journalist Jean Eckian told PanARMENIAN.Net

On December 22, 2011, French National Assembly passed a bill criminalizing public denial of the Armenian Genocide. If passed and signed into law by the Senate, the bill would impose a 45,000 euro fine and a year in prison for anyone in France who denies this crime against humanity committed by the Ottoman Empire. Following the vote, Ankara recalled its ambassador from France.

http://panarmenian.net/eng/news/87956/

[Davo88]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

I really like how Algeria finally reacted to this issue. I also like that he mentioned Turkey was a NATO ally of France when the massacre occurred in Algeria and had offered material support during the events...


Algerian PM Ouyahia to Turkey: stop making political capital of France massacre of Algerians

ALGIERS - Algerian Prime Minister Ahmed Ouyahia urged Turkey Saturday to stop trying to make political capital out of France's killing of thousands of Algerians during the colonial period.

He made the call as Turkey continued to assail Paris ahead of a French Senate vote on a bill that would make it a crime for anyone to deny that the killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turks 1915-17 amounted to genocide.

Turkey has accused France of hypocrisy for its own hand in killings committed in its former colony, Algeria, in 1945 and during the north African nation's struggle for independence between 1954 and 1962.

"An estimated 15 per cent of the Algerian population was massacred by the French from 1945 onwards," Erdogan has said. "This is a genocide."

Ouyahia said every country has the right to defend its interests, but "nobody has the right to make the blood of Algerians their business."

French forces cracked down on a protest in the east Algerian city of Setif on May 8, 1945, to call for an end to French colonial rule, leaving 45,000 people dead, according to Algerian historians.

Western researchers put the death toll at between 8,000 and 18,000.

Ouyahia noted that Turkey had been a member of NATO during the war in Algeria and as such had provided material support to France.

"We say to our (Turkish) friends: Stop making capital out of Algeria's colonisation," Ouyahia said at a press conference.

The French lower house approved the genocide bill December 22 and the Senate is expected to vote on it by the end of January.

If it is enacted, anyone denying that the 1915-1917 massacre of Armenians by Ottoman Turk forces amounted to genocide, could face jail time.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Algerian+Ouyahia+Turkey+stop+making+political+capital+France+massacre+Algerians/5962405/story.html#ixzz1iosFkoCP

[londontsi]

Re: Vive La France !!!!!

Woolly liberals .....

Sounds like a fair assessment to me.


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