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Hidden "Armenians" in Turkey....

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  • #41
    Re: Hidden "Armenians" in Turkey....

    Originally posted by ArmSurvival View Post
    There are a lot of Turks who think the genocide should be recognized (mostly Turks outside of Turkey, but there are a growing number inside Turkey). My point is if we declare some kind of hatred or disassociation with Turks in general, then those who are for recognizing the genocide will be stuck between racist Armenians and those who are fanatics in their own society. Not all Turks have the same opinion.
    Dude, respectfully, I didn't write the passage you quoted.

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    • #42
      Re: Hidden "Armenians" in Turkey....

      As far as these Hidden Armenians. I would like to state that the path chosen by the man in the video, who figured out that living in a denial and fear is no way to live, is a move in the right direction. Congrats to him. Marrying a native Armenian speaker and raising your children as Christian Armenians will go a long way to cleansing his spirit and psyche of the turkish influence. Now, he just needs to pack up and leave. As far as the rest of his family, I have the hardest time imagining what's it like to live a fake fear-ridden life. The only explanation I can come up with is that these people are institutionalized (remember from Shawshank Redemption), which is what prisoners go through after long incarceration. They've known self-instilled fear and deception all their life, probably passed on generation-to-generation, and sadly passing it on to their children. And now, that fear and deception have become their culture, their tradition. They're not Armenians, not Christians. I know that sounds bad, but they've replaced their ancient culture and traditions with fear and deception. The good news is that they can slowly cultivate the Armenian roots, if only they could break free from that.

      By the way, saying that these people are an example of similarities between turks and Armenians is quite silly. These people have taken several generations of making themselves appear Muslim and kurdish/turkish. They are the least likely candidate for comparing Armenians and turks. Note, that a similar thing can be said about turks from the West of turkey. These regions are populated by a huge European-derived genetic component, thanks to turkish "classic" practices of wife-stealing, baby-stealing, etc., all because of the need to change their native East-Asian traces.
      Last edited by karoaper; 05-05-2007, 03:33 PM.

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      • #43
        Re: Hidden "Armenians" in Turkey....

        Originally posted by karoaper View Post
        As far as these Hidden Armenians. I would like to state that the path chosen by the man in the video, who figured out that living in a denial and fear is no way to live, is a move in the right direction. Congrats to him. Marrying a native Armenian speaker and raising your children as Christian Armenians will go a long way to cleansing his spirit and psyche of the turkish influence. Now, he just needs to pack up and leave. As far as the rest of his family, I have the hardest time imagining what's it like to live a fake fear-ridden life. The only explanation I can come up with is that these people are institutionalized (remember from Shawshank Redemption), which is what prisoners go through after long incarceration. They've known self-instilled fear and deception all their life, probably passed on generation-to-generation, and sadly passing it on to their children. And now, that fear and deception have become their culture, their tradition. They're not Armenians, not Christians. I know that sounds bad, but they've replaced their ancient culture and traditions with fear and deception. The good news is that they can slowly cultivate the Armenian roots, if only they could break free from that.

        By the way, saying that these people are an example of similarities between turks and Armenians is quite silly. These people have taken several generations of making themselves appear Muslim and kurdish/turkish. They are the least likely candidate for comparing Armenians and turks. Note, that a similar thing can be said about turks from the West of turkey. These regions are populated by a huge European-derived genetic component, thanks to turkish "classic" practices of wife-stealing, baby-stealing, etc., all because of the need to change their native East-Asian traces.
        hmmm...You say turks mixed with populations because of the need to change their native East-Asian traces :S then this means you accuse the babies>>which is probably high proportion of modern turks<<< for being stolen???
        You cant blame the children of those mums that you call "stolen wives". They have no responsibilty of what happened in the past...

        Finally, you as an armenian should be proud of those "hidden" armenians who are still holding on to life no matter what. Its easy for you to say "they should all move to armenia". Maybe they need more support from armenians, maybe they like to stay in turkey. These people are having "identity crisis" and their offsprings will have it too...Come on people, put your hand to your heart and especially Lucin, this one is for u>> if armenians think those people are a disgrace to armenians, and at the same time they are being "mistreated" by some turks then who does really care about these people? I feel sorry for them
        Last edited by gizzy; 05-05-2007, 04:21 PM.
        "Only when the last tree has withered, and the last fish caught, and the last river been poisoned, will we realize we cannot eat money." Cree Proverb

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        • #44
          Re: Hidden &quot;Armenians&quot; in Turkey....

          Originally posted by Karoaper
          Dude, respectfully, I didn't write the passage you quoted.
          My apologies, it was KarotheGreat who said it, I accidentally wrote your name. I changed it though.
          Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

          Ten soldiers wisely led, will beat a hundred without a head.

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          • #45
            Re: Hidden &quot;Armenians&quot; in Turkey....

            Originally posted by Lucin View Post
            Մի քիչ մակարդակ ցոյց տվէք: Ամոթ է:
            Դու գնացել է՞ս Հայաստան: Իմ ընտանիքը ըտենց Է ապրում: Հէչ մի բան չունեն և մենք էնք իրանց փող տալիս որ իրանք ապրեն: Եւ ի՞նչ է ամոթ: Որ ես չէ՞մ ստում: Դու ամաչում է՞ս որ Թուրքէրի մոտըն էմ խոսում Հայաստանի վիճակի մասին: Որ չուզենաս ես անգլերենով չեմ խոսա Հայաստանի մասին: Ես չէմ ուզուն որ քո հակառակորդը լինեմ բայց ես կառծում էմ որ Հայերը Թուրքիայում կարան իրանց ցույց տան որ Հայերը լաւ մարդիկ էն և իրանց կառաւարությունի վատ և սուտ ղոսկէրին չլսէն (կարողա էսի չի պատահի բայց գոնե փորձենք): Որ ոչ մէկը չանի էս բաները դե Թուրքերը նույն կամ աւելի վատ ճեւ կմտածեն Հայերի մասին: Ես չէմ ուզում որ միհատ Հայ գնա և ապրի Թուրքիայում բայց քանի որ էս Հայերը ապրում էն Թուրքիայում թող իրանք ցույց տան որ Հայ ժողովուրդը շատ լաւն է: Մոռացիր իմ առաջ և երկրորդ err...փոստերի մասին: Ներողություն: Ես լաւ չեի մտածում:
            Սեւ Զեյթուն

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            • #46
              Re: Hidden &quot;Armenians&quot; in Turkey....

              Spasi, kez barkacnum e na vor [email protected] mer, Hayeri, masin vat en mtatsum? Sirelis, gogh u avazaki u dazhan martu hargankn a kez petk? @senc ban yes chem lsel, manavand Hayeric. De ari gnank, porcenk gel u aghvesneric hargank u patkaranq uzenk.

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              • #47
                Re: Hidden &quot;Armenians&quot; in Turkey....

                Originally posted by ArmSurvival View Post
                My apologies, it was KarotheGreat who said it, I accidentally wrote your name. I changed it though.
                no need for apologies, bro, just wanted to make the correction.
                I knew KaroMetsn was going to cause such problems. Karo lsum es ay tgha. makanunt pokhi.

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                • #48
                  Re: Hidden &quot;Armenians&quot; in Turkey....

                  Originally posted by karoaper View Post
                  Spasi, kez barkacnum e na vor [email protected] mer, Hayeri, masin vat en mtatsum? Sirelis, gogh u avazaki u dazhan martu hargankn a kez petk? @senc ban yes chem lsel, manavand Hayeric. De ari gnank, porcenk gel u aghvesneric hargank u patkaranq uzenk.
                  Ես չեմ ասում որ իրանց շատ սիրենք կամ իրանք մեզի շատ հարգեն բայց կարողա իրանք չեն մտածի նույն ճեւը Հայերի մասին: Կարողա Հայերի հետ կը հաւատան Ցէղասպանությունի մասին (սաղ Թուրքերը չե -- բայց կարողա ավելի շատ): Ես գիդեմ որ շատ վատ Թուրքեր կան այս աշխարում բայց մի քանի հատ կա որ Հայերի հետ հաւատում էն: Էս Թուրքերը չեն գանգատարկում որովհետեւ իրանց կառաւարությունը չի թողում և շատ մարդ չկա որ իրանց հետ համաձայնում է -- չ՞ե: Բայց որ Հայեր լինեն Թուրքիայում դե կարողա իրանք կարան Թուրքերի կարծիկները փոխեն և աւելի շատ Թուրք կը պաշպանի իրանց (էն Թուրքերին որ հաւատում էն Ցէխասպանությունի հետ): Կը ներես. ես չուզեցի Թուրքերի դեմը ասեի և ճիշտ չասեցի անգլերենով:
                  Last edited by sev_zeytun; 05-05-2007, 08:26 PM.
                  Սեւ Զեյթուն

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Re: Hidden &quot;Armenians&quot; in Turkey....

                    I think that these people should be recovered by the government for them to be able to practice their religion and identity. This is the duty of the government. But I do not think the government will do anything about it as it is threaten by the western governments and even USA to confess <<genocide>>. Actually, it would be stupidity for the government to accept anything on this issue. I can not get my head around anything on this <<genocide>> issue, In Armenia or in France , If somebody kills somebody, does the government asks the suspected killer if he/she accept the responsibility of the killing and on the ground that she/he does not accept any responsibly, they get away with what they do? If all governments including Armenia are convinced that Ottoman Turks committed genocide why any government does not submit a petition to the court In Switzerland, called international justice court and why spend millions of dollars on propaganda? What are they scare of? As far as I can see recently some Turkish scholars also make their living on this issue supported by Armenian communities. I do not blame them they have to earn money somehow. If the court concludes that it was genocide, we have to accept and memorize the victims officially but without a court verdict I can not understand why and how Turkey will accept this as genocide.

                    In many peopleís posts, I see a deep hatred against Turkish people which is unbelievable. You would have been born Turkish and I would have been born Armenian or Indian. It is not our choice and we can not refuse the culture, identity which we were born into, because these are who we are therefore it is pointless to advise the other sideís people to reject the angle the way they look. But if we clearly realize that we also would have been the other, I think things will change gradually

                    Do Armenians live in Turkey happily? Probably most of them live far more prosperous life in Turkey than those who live in Armenia financially. I think generally they are successful people whatever they are doing. Of course politically, they were silent until recently but I think it is also changing. I even wrote to Agos after Hrant Dink was killed, saying that Armenian community should not hesitate to be present politically and socially in the Turkish society. I know the damage was done by both sides I know it is too difficult for the majority of the Turkish people to reconcile on this issue as they had bad memories in regarding to Armenians community living in Turkey a century ago. I think Turkish people will apologize for Armenians loses during the relocation after French, British, Russian, Greek governments explained to Turkey what they were doing in Turkey Between 1915-1923 and apologized for what they did to Turkey and Armenians explained to Turkey clearly why they sided with Russian Army why they died in the French uniform by a Turkish bullet. Why they became <<the other>> in the eyes of Turks after almost a thousand years.

                    I am sorry if some of you guys get upset with what I have written but communication is always a better way in dealing difficulties.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Re: Hidden &quot;Armenians&quot; in Turkey....

                      Originally posted by sev_zeytun View Post
                      Well, I think I need to clarify what I was talking about. I was only addressing the Armenian's living in Turkey.
                      I have known many Armenians from TEMPORARILY SO CALLED Turkey, but I do not have enough exposure to agree or disagree with your statement - when limited to that particular community. However, I know that many of them would vehemently react, as if insulted, disfigured and vilified by your statement.







                      Originally posted by sev_zeytun View Post
                      I think that it is shameful that the Turkish people call the Armenians there 'invalids' and other insulting names. I was saying that if they show who they are and practice whatever bits and pieces of Armenian culture that they know (like a little bit of religion maybe), that, eventually they would be accepted as Armenians and that the Turks would soon realize that Armenians are not bad people and that their 'image' of Armenians is completely wrong. I was not saying that all Armenians should go the Turkey and live there or anything even close to that. By 'integration, and acceptance' I meant for those who live in Turkey (they can be accepted for who they are, not who they pretend to be).
                      As Karo said, why do you care? Why does it matter what morally reprehensible intellectual midgets "think" of - and perceive - Armenians? I challenge you to name a SINGLE intelligent *urkish poster on this forum....And they are the cream of the *urkish "intelligentsia.

                      Do you really think that a jerk - or, in this case, a Jurk - suddenly becomes sensitive and understanding when you take the time to explain? Please wake up and smell the *urk....it really stinks!






                      Originally posted by sev_zeytun View Post
                      As for an example (Siamanto), look at America in the early 1900's. There was a huge influx of southern and eastern Europeans and the Americans hated them a lot (nativists, so to speak). They tried everything to keep the immigrants out with the Emergency Quota Act and, later, the Immigration Act to keep them out as much as possible (donít even get me started on the Asian population in America back them). But look at the immigrant populations now. The Americans do not mind that there are Russians, Italians, Greeks, Slovenians, Romanians, ect living right next door and they even like their culture and there is acceptance and mutual respect for one another. As for the whole 'we look the same' bit, I was only talking about body and facial structure. Do you think that a lot of the Turks who know these people or pass by them everyday knew that they were Armenians or had an Armenian background?
                      Are you comparing the American Society - mainly inheriting from the European Culture - to the *urkish Society - mainly inheriting from the culture of Central Asian nomadic herds of thieves with a medieval mindset and simplistic model of the world?

                      Are you out of your mind or still on drugs - the one commonly administered in the US to make believe that all human collectivities are comparable????? To consider the dangers of that drug, keep in mind that a majority of the American people - not leaders - agreed to the war in Iraq because they genuinely believed that democracy could be built. Yes, that drug allowed the leaders to manipulate them.
                      Please wake up and smell the *urk....it really stinks!




                      Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations
                      Last edited by Siamanto; 05-06-2007, 10:23 AM.
                      What if I find someone else when looking for you? My soul shivers as the idea invades my mind.

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