America's Financial Crisis

[Armenian]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

EDIT: If you don't respond, I'd like to state this has been a debate that I enjoyed.

Ow... I feel all warm and fuzzy now.

Judging by 'some' or your replies (in which you more-or-less agreed with me ), I think there is hope for you. You just need to wake up from your deep sleep to see the big picture.

[Muhaha]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

I know you said you're done with me, but it's only natural for me to want to respond.

EDIT: If you don't respond, I'd like to state this has been a debate that I enjoyed.
__________________________________________________ __________

Try a hundred million native Americans to start with.

You said:

for a regime that is overtly exporting "freedom", "democracy" and "human rights," the ruling elite in this nation has caused more death and destruction than Nazi Germany.

"The Ruling Elite",We're obviously talking about today's politicians and the United States after World War 2. Surely you don't mean a hundred million Native Americans were killed during the last half century?Do you?

Then throw in several million Africans

Same story unless you mean the current government is currently oppressing most of the African American population, that's an entire debate by itself.

several million Vietnamese, well over a million Iraqis, the direct or indirect murder of Serbs, Central Americans, Afghans, Iranians, Cubans, Palestinians, Russians... And may I add that unlike the Second World War deaths, most of the figures I am bringing up are none war related deaths. Thus, they can be characterized as genocide or mass murder.

The deaths of these people are tragic and I won't defend the U.S regarding them. But the numbers don't come close to 30 Million.



__________________________________________________ ___________


Also, since you didn't respond to the rest of my post, is it safe to assume we're in agreement with the statements I made?

[Armenian]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

Nazi Germany inflicted more than 30+ Million deaths. You're going to have to tell me what the United States has done to top that.

Try tens of millions of native Americans to start with. Then throw in several million Africans, several million Vietnamese, well over a million Iraqis, the direct or indirect murder of Serbs, Central Americans, Afghans, Iranians, Cubans, Palestinians, Russians... And may I add that unlike the Second World War deaths, most of the figures I am bringing up are none war related deaths. Thus, they can be characterized as genocide or mass murder. Plus, Nazi Germany never packaged itself as champions of freedom and democracy.

What's more, the Obama administration will be just as bad if not worst then the previous thieves and criminals that administered the empire. You know why, Muhaha? It's because there is no such thing as "democracy" here. Elections here are a two ring circus, and the ring masters are the financial elite. Democrats and Republicans are two factions of one party. In order for an individual to be able to rise to the throne of this massive empire he or she needs to pledge obedience to the ruling elite. Simply put, presidents in America are nothing but representatives or chief executive officers of special interests.

You may want to debate me four years from now regarding how much of an "open book" or a change in course the Obama administration is.

Judging by your words, I am not expecting you to understand any of what I'm saying. And I am sorry if I was harsh towards you, it's just that I know your type all to well. Frankly speaking, I tired of stupidity, especially the kind of stupidity Armenians in America portray.

Anyway, I'm done with you

[Muhaha]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

I wonder, would you apply this 'reasoning' to other political entities such as Soviet Union, Iran, Turkey, Russian Federation, Nazi Germany???

Yes, I apply it to everything.

for a regime that is overtly exporting "freedom", "democracy" and "human rights," the ruling elite in this nation has caused more death and destruction than Nazi Germany.

Nazi Germany inflicted more than 30+ Million deaths. You're going to have to tell me what the United States has done to top that.

For a regime that is overtly exporting a global "fight against corruption", the ruling elite in this nation is by far to most corrupt in the world.

I haven't even heard about this "Global Fight Against Corruption". If there is one, I agree it needs to be fought over here a little bit.

For a regime that is overtly exporting a "war on terrorism", the policies of Washington DC terrorizes millions globally on a daily basis.

Who,Where,How.

Let me feed you some rational, little child. First of all, we only get to hear and read a 'tiny' portion of the shit that actually goes on in this country because unlike in developing nation (like in Armenia) where the US has stationed CIA front offices to incite civil unrest by exposing "corruption" and "human rights" violations, no such organizations exits in this country.

What do you call Human Rights Watch constantly updating on GITMO. What do you call the ACLU constantly fighting against the PATRIOT ACT. Apart from these organizations, Freedom of the Press is there for a reason. Are you going to tell me Alex Jones,Michael Moore, and Keith Olbermann are somehow defending the government and not covering irregularities?

Moreover, when news such as the ones I highlighted above makes the underground media, or when large numbers of people begin talking about them, "mainstream" news media executives are sometimes forced to allow 'limited' reporting.

I agree, and most people know this which is why Cable isn't the only place people get their news. There are countless medians,countless investigators, and countless sources to get your news. That's the beauty of the First Amendment.

Nonetheless, when was the last time you saw mainstream news editorials or media executives calling for serious inquires and persistently pursuing cases in an attempt to unravel cases that involve high level government corruption or government sponsored murder in this country?

You're right about this,Keith Olbermann is the only one in that's in the mainstream I've seen come close to investigating government corruption, and that's all going to change because he makes no attempt to hide the fact he's in the tank for Obama.

But again, I'd like to say, I doubt there are a whole lot of people whose only source of information is "Mainstream News". Cable news and major publications are not the only news and is not representative of what people are aware of. If anything, Mainstream News is just the background off of which we compare and contrast other stories.

For example: Who the xxxx today is pursuing the murderers of the Beltway Madam?

If you have gathered up enough evidence and are absolutely convinced the official account is a fabrication, then please contact the proper authorities. Democracy means "Government by the people, for the people", which means the people have to do some work and correct the mistakes of the Government and authorities in charge. It seems as though you have.

Who the xxxx today is seriously pursuing the events of September 11, 2001?

I agree, it needs to be looked into. Although I stop short at saying the government actively pushed for something like that to happen, there are a lot of reasons to believe the Bush Administration let it happen. That's just as bad and I'm the last person on Earth to defend the guys currently occupying office.

Who the xxxx today is pursuing serious charges against America's most wealthy and most corrupt entities like Haliburton, Bechtel, Black Water?

Exactly, you're not the first person to notice there's something fishy. I agree completely that not enough is being done about these criminals.

Who the xxxx today is seriously pursuing the trillions of dollars gone missing in this country during the past several years?

I had heard about billions missing, not trillions. It doesn't matter, that money is all taxes and needs to be accounted for. This is another thing not too many are covering and I'm not going to defend it.

My God... Your shallowness and ignorance seems to have no limits nor shame. How old are you? Regardless of your age, I am glad you are here. I want other Armenians to see just how intellectually challenged and ethically deficient American-Armenians tend to be, and the reason why I spend so much time here providing alternative points of view...

You are a shining example of ignorance and shallowness. My weekend advice for you: you need to pull your head out of your ass as well.

I'd also like to thank you for your criticism, one of the only ways to make progress is to listen to and reflect on critique,criticism, and judgment.

Sorry Anon, I thought for a moment this was the "Ankap" thread. Nonetheless, had Muhaha been polite in attempting to engage me in a debate in several other threads I would not have been as condescending towards him/her/it.

How was I condescending? I've used nothing but plain English in all my posts, whether it's with you or others. I've never used slang, I've never used four letter words.

[Armenian]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

Armenian, I don't need to state the obvious. You can get your message across without resorting to insults or denigrating the poster.

Sorry Anon, I thought for a moment this was the "Ankap" thread. Nonetheless, had Muhaha been polite in attempting to engage me in a debate in several other threads I would not have been as condescending towards him/her/it.

[Anonymouse]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

Armenian, I don't need to state the obvious. You can get your message across without resorting to insults or denigrating the poster.

[Armenian]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

My God... Your shallowness and ignorance seems to have no limits nor shame. How old are you? Regardless of your age, I am glad you are here. I want other Armenians to see just how intellectually challenged and ethically deficient American-Armenians tend to be, and the reason why I spend so much time here providing alternative points of view...

Stop using the actions of a few to judge an entire system, especially one as vast as the United States.

I wonder, would you apply this brilliant 'reasoning' of yours to other political entities such as Soviet Union, Iran, Turkey, Russian Federation, Nazi Germany???

Since an intellectual midget like you has not been able to comprehended my intentions, allow me me to restate my point in all this: for a regime that is overtly exporting "freedom", "democracy" and "human rights," the ruling elite in this nation has caused more death and destruction than Nazi Germany. For a regime that is overtly exporting a global "fight against corruption", the ruling elite in this nation is by far to most corrupt in the world. For a regime that is overtly exporting a "war on terrorism", the policies of Washington DC terrorizes millions globally on a daily basis. My rhetoric, nonetheless, does not apply to the American people per se, although roughly half of the population here seems to have their heads so far up their asses that their brains suffer from oxygen deficiency.

Also, we do hear this in "mainstream news". I read about Mike Connell in the Huffingtonpost. And out of all news agencies, Fox News covered the death of the D.C madam and the strange things surrounding it, FOX NEWS BROUGHT ON ALEX JONES!

Let me feed you some rational, little child. First of all, we only get to hear and read a 'tiny' portion of the shit that actually goes on in this country because unlike in developing nation (like in Armenia) where the US has stationed CIA front offices to incite civil unrest by exposing "corruption" and "human rights" violations, no such organizations exits in this country. Moreover, when news such as the ones I highlighted above makes the underground media, or when large numbers of people begin talking about them, "mainstream" news media executives are sometimes forced to allow 'limited' reporting. Nonetheless, when was the last time you saw mainstream news editorials or media executives calling for serious inquires and persistently pursuing cases in an attempt to unravel cases that involve high level government corruption or government sponsored murder in this country?

For example:

Who the xxxx today is pursuing the murderers of the Beltway Madam?

Who the xxxx today is seriously pursuing the events of September 11, 2001?

Who the xxxx today is seriously pursuing the trillions of dollars gone missing in this country during the past several years?

Who the xxxx today is pursuing serious charges against America's most wealthy and most corrupt entities like Haliburton, Bechtel, Black Water?

And great Americans like Alex Jones, or Ron Poul, or Pat Buchanan are characterized as either fringe voices, extremists, racists or simply wackos by the mainstream media...

You are a shining example of ignorance and shallowness. If you are Armenian, you represent everything wrong with our diaspora. If you are an American, its because of brain-dead and blind citizens like you this once great nation is being driving to hell.

My weekend advice for you: you need to pull your head out of your ass as well.

[Federate]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

Basically this is how the USA works: "Major corruption scandal uncovered in the White House! Don't worry everyone, we're on it. Now go and watch your 'American Gladiators' show and feel proud of this country."

[Muhaha]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

On a side note here, I would like to continue highlighting the severe corruption that exists within all levels of US government and society. It seems now that there may have been another murder of a person that simply knew too much in Washington DC. Naturally, however, we would never hear about these allegations in the controlled mainstream news nor in "democracy" spreading media outlets such as Radio Liberty. I hope that asswipes in our communities that love to compare the corruption that exists in developing nations like Armenia to that of the spotless and holy American system would wake up from their stupid fantasies and realize that they have been fooled. Beginning with the defeat of National Socialism in Europe and ending with the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US political system has come to represent evil on earth - delivered on a gold plate of democracy. In my opinion, two terrible events happened in world history within a fifty year span: The defeat of National Socialism in 1945 and the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Comparatively speaking, the worst corruption on earth today exists within the US. Comparatively speaking, politicians with the most blood on their hands today are the ones serving in Washington DC. The American system today is like a bloated, sickly criminal who's life support system is the rest of the world. Unless the world gradually ceases to prolong the life of this sickly beast, it will go down with it. And we still have mentally retarded idiots amongst us (and a few right here on this board) that swear by the post war political system in America. Nonetheless, as the economy worsens, the real face of Washington DC will come to the surface and the people may begin to realize that the worst political system ever imposed upon mankind is the thing called democracy - as preached by Washington DC.

Armenian

Stop using the actions of a few to judge an entire system, especially one as vast as the United States.

Also, we do hear this in "mainstream news". I read about Mike Connell in the Huffingtonpost. And out of all news agencies, Fox News covered the death of the D.C madam and the strange things surrounding it, FOX NEWS BROUGHT ON ALEX JONES!

[Armenian]

Re: America's Financial Crisis

While we are in Britain, there is also a very high probability that former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook was also murdered, perhaps because he simply knew too much about the "Al-Qaeda" phenomenon.

Armenian

**************************

Al Qaeda – The Database

by Pierre-Henri Bunel

Shortly before his untimely death, former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook (pictured above) told the House of Commons that "Al Qaeda" is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan. Courtesy of World Affairs, a journal based in New Delhi, WMR can bring you an important excerpt from an Apr.-Jun. 2004 article by Pierre-Henry Bunel, a former agent for French military intelligence.

"I first heard about Al-Qaida while I was attending the Command and Staff course in Jordan. I was a French officer at that time and the French Armed Forces had close contacts and cooperation with Jordan . . .

"Two of my Jordanian colleagues were experts in computers. They were air defense officers. Using computer science slang, they introduced a series of jokes about students' punishment.

"For example, when one of us was late at the bus stop to leave the Staff College, the two officers used to tell us: 'You'll be noted in 'Q eidat il-Maaloomaat' which meant 'You'll be logged in the information database.' Meaning 'You will receive a warning . . .' If the case was more severe, they would used to talk about 'Q eidat i-Taaleemaat.' Meaning 'the decision database.' It meant 'you will be punished.' For the worst cases they used to speak of logging in 'Al Qaida.'

"In the early 1980s the Islamic Bank for Development, which is located in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, like the Permanent Secretariat of the Islamic Conference Organization, bought a new computerized system to cope with its accounting and communication requirements. At the time the system was more sophisticated than necessary for their actual needs.

"It was decided to use a part of the system's memory to host the Islamic Conference's database. It was possible for the countries attending to access the database by telephone: an Intranet, in modern language. The governments of the member-countries as well as some of their embassies in the world were connected to that network.

"[According to a Pakistani major] the database was divided into two parts, the information file where the participants in the meetings could pick up and send information they needed, and the decision file where the decisions made during the previous sessions were recorded and stored. In Arabic, the files were called, 'Q eidat il-Maaloomaat' and 'Q eidat i-Taaleemaat.' Those two files were kept in one file called in Arabic 'Q eidat ilmu'ti'aat' which is the exact translation of the English word database. But the Arabs commonly used the short word Al Qaida which is the Arabic word for "base." The military air base of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia is called 'q eidat 'riyadh al 'askariya.' Q eida means "a base" and "Al Qaida" means "the base."

"In the mid-1980s, Al Qaida was a database located in computer and dedicated to the communications of the Islamic Conference's secretariat.

"In the early 1990s, I was a military intelligence officer in the Headquarters of the French Rapid Action Force. Because of my skills in Arabic my job was also to translate a lot of faxes and letters seized or intercepted by our intelligence services . . . We often got intercepted material sent by Islamic networks operating from the UK or from Belgium.

"These documents contained directions sent to Islamic armed groups in Algeria or in France. The messages quoted the sources of statements to be exploited in the redaction of the tracts or leaflets, or to be introduced in video or tapes to be sent to the media. The most commonly quoted sources were the United Nations, the non-aligned countries, the UNHCR and . . . Al Qaida.

"Al Qaida remained the data base of the Islamic Conference. Not all member countries of the Islamic Conference are 'rogue states' and many Islamic groups could pick up information from the databases. It was but natural for Osama Bin Laden to be connected to this network. He is a member of an important family in the banking and business world.

"Because of the presence of 'rogue states,' it became easy for terrorist groups to use the email of the database. Hence, the email of Al Qaida was used, with some interface system, providing secrecy, for the families of the mujaheddin to keep links with their children undergoing training in Afghanistan, or in Libya or in the Beqaa valley, Lebanon. Or in action anywhere in the battlefields where the extremists sponsored by all the 'rogue states' used to fight. And the 'rogue states' included Saudi Arabia. When Osama bin Laden was an American agent in Afghanistan, the Al Qaida Intranet was a good communication system through coded or covert messages.

Al Qaida was neither a terrorist group nor Osama bin Laden's personal property . . . The terrorist actions in Turkey in 2003 were carried out by Turks and the motives were local and not international, unified, or joint. These crimes put the Turkish government in a difficult position vis-a-vis the British and the Israelis. But the attacks certainly intended to 'punish' Prime Minister Erdogan for being a 'toot tepid' Islamic politician.

" . . . In the Third World the general opinion is that the countries using weapons of mass destruction for economic purposes in the service of imperialism are in fact 'rogue states," specially the US and other NATO countries.

" Some Islamic economic lobbies are conducting a war against the 'liberal" economic lobbies. They use local terrorist groups claiming to act on behalf of Al Qaida. On the other hand, national armies invade independent countries under the aegis of the UN Security Council and carry out pre-emptive wars. And the real sponsors of these wars are not governments but the lobbies concealed behind them.

"The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the 'TV watcher' to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US and the lobbyists for the US war on terrorism are only interested in making money." (Our emphasis, Ed.)

In yet another example of what happens to those who challenge the system, in December 2001, Maj. Pierre-Henri Bunel was convicted by a secret French military court of passing classified documents that identified potential NATO bombing targets in Serbia to a Serbian agent during the Kosovo war in 1998. Bunel's case was transferred from a civilian court to keep the details of the case classified. Bunel's character witnesses and psychologists notwithstanding, the system "got him" for telling the truth about Al Qaeda and who has actually been behind the terrorist attacks commonly blamed on that group. It is noteworthy that that Yugoslav government, the government with whom Bunel was asserted by the French government to have shared information, claimed that Albanian and Bosnian guerrillas in the Balkans were being backed by elements of "Al Qaeda." We now know that these guerrillas were being backed by money provided by the Bosnian Defense Fund, an entity established as a special fund at Bush-influenced Riggs Bank and directed by Richard Perle and Douglas Feith.

French officer Maj. Pierre-Henri Bunel, who knew the truth about "Al Qaeda" -- Another target of the neo-cons

Source: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...articleId=1291