Ukraine

[Haykakan]

Re: Ukraine

Loved this
I am starting to lose this one. How dare anyone excuse a great power
hurling brute force against a small one, justifying it with some
nonsense about extremists and a "responsibility to protect". There
should be no place for such cynical bullying in a 21st-century world
order. And for what? So a leader with a virility complex can play to
his domestic gallery. The whole thing is utterly unacceptable. There
must be costs and consequences.

But enough of Iraq. What of Ukraine? We can only gasp at the hypocrisy
of a British foreign secretary and an American secretary of state
lecturing Russia from a Kiev street corner on the evil of invading
small countries. Did no ghost of Iraq or Afghanistan, of Kosovo
or Libya, hover over their shoulders?

[Haykakan]

Re: Ukraine

Boy that kitty cat sure is slippin these days..cant argue nor make any valid points anymore..purrr

[Merv]

Re: Ukraine

Huh ... a Russian "historian" speaks.
Not a word about the millions killed by his so lovable, so victimised Russians during the era of their cuddly fluffy Empire of Peace. Or maybe, concerning Ukraine specifically, Merv just hasn't heard of the Holodomor.

I am not Russian.

I did not deny that Russia has victimized Poland in particular, but it has not been invading the West at random, sacking Paris, London, Berlin without provocation, etc. And the Poles have their own history of invading Moscow, machinations with the false Dmitris, occupation of Ukraine, etc.

The Holodomor was a famine engineered by Stalin - a Georgian - and Kaganovitch - a Ukrainian xxx. The victims were peasants, not Ukrainians per se, and large parts of Russia in the Donbas/Kuban region were affected worse than western Ukraine.

Inspect this map:



You will notice that the famine was far less severe in western Ukraine - which is nationalist and Russophobic, than in eastern Ukraine, which is Russian-speaking and much more in line with Russian rule. You will also observe that the severity/mortality of the famine was dependent on political structure of oblasts, not on Ukrainian ethnicity or language. For example, the Krasnodar-containing oblast in the east of the Black Sea is bisected between Russian and Ukrainian parts, yet the famine was more severe there than in the purely Ukrainian Stalino-Donetsk-containing oblast west of it. The Belgorod-containing oblast, also ~half-half Russian-Ukrainian by territory, was far less severely affected than Crimea, which we know has long had a Russian absolute majority.

Thus, the whole "genocide" aspect of the Holodomor is fascist Ukrainian propaganda and bunk. It was Communist mismanagement and class warfare, but it was not ethnic genocide, and Russians should never be imputed with this in the same way that Turks are for the Armenian genocide or Germans for the Holocaust.

While you go celebrating these pigs:



I would remind you that they continue a tradition of mass-murder and hatred dating back decades. Please do instruct yourself on the extermination of ~50,000 Poles in Volhynia by these thugs, then tell me you support them.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=75f_1...628&comments=1

[Haykakan]

Re: Ukraine

"So for all of Armenia's poodling to Russia, it has ended up in an even weaker position than before. Armenia has given the EU the finger and got a useless customs union with Russia in return, one which even Russia will no longer care about because Russia only wanted Armenia in to get Ukraine on board too. Armenia needs to discard the Customs Union asap, get back to negotiations with the EU beforre it is too late, and also keep an eye on what is happening in the Crimea - and if border changes happen, be ready to make potentual comparisons with NK."

Yes right away Mr Bell and where is the nearest cliff we Armenians can all jump off of? Gosh you are so helpful and thoughtful..why if you did not show us that cliff how else were we going to commit suicide? Hey bell are those dollars for democracy you are counting?

[lampron]

Re: Ukraine

So for all of Armenia's poodling to Russia, it has ended up in an even weaker position than before. Armenia has given the EU the finger and got a useless customs union with Russia in return, one which even Russia will no longer care about because Russia only wanted Armenia in to get Ukraine on board too. Armenia needs to discard the Customs Union asap, get back to negotiations with the EU beforre it is too late, and also keep an eye on what is happening in the Crimea - and if border changes happen, be ready to make potentual comparisons with NK.

There are parallels between NK and Crimea

The EU is more interested in detaching Armenia from the Russian orbit than wanting to help it

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Ukraine

The events in the Ukraine are a Western-orchestrated attempt to seize the linchpin to Russia's restoration of its empire. True or not, the Western thesis for quite a while (including one held by the likes of Brzezinski) is that without Ukraine, Russia is a country, but that with Ukraine it is an empire.

The Western Ukrainians centered in places like Lvov are neo-Nazis whose hate and violence against Poles, xxxs, and Russians is well known. They engaged in genocide in WWII against xxxs, in mass murder of Poles in Volynia and Galicia at that time, in manning Hitler's concentration camps in Poland and Germany, and in SS divisions that murdered Russians during Operation Barbarossa.

The Western Ukrainians have nothing to do with the Russian-speaking Eastern Orthodox Eastern/Southern Ukrainians. They are proteges of Western interests in penetrating the former Russian empire all the way to the Caucasus, in cutting Russia off from the Black Sea, in stealing Caspian oil and the grain of the steppe.

Russia has been in an existential struggle with the West for the past 200 years, which has assaulted Russia 4 times during that period. Russia has assaulted the West 0 times in that time period. We had Napoleon, the (first) Crimean War, WWI, and WWII. In each instant, the West has been brutally crushing both Russian interests, her people, and other peoples who might be sympathetic to Russia. They have used puppet states (Grand Duchy of Warsaw, Saakashvili's Georgia), proxy wars (Austria-Hungary vs. Serbia, Georgia vs. S. Ossetia), mass murder of Russian POWs, slave labor, terror bombing, incitement of insurrections (Crimean Tatars, Chechens in WWII and 1990s), colored revolutions (Rose, Orange, etc.), coup d'etats, etc. all with the intent of annexing territory and expelling Russia as a dominant (and currently, the dominant) power in Eurasia.

Russia cannot afford to have Ukraine torn from her grasp. If Putin is savvy, he will work to have the entire Black Sea coast, eastern industrial cities, and Kiev itself back in the Russian orbit. The western part can go off to be with Poland, Lithuania, and Germany.

Huh ... a Russian "historian" speaks.
Not a word about the millions killed by his so lovable, so victimised Russians during the era of their cuddly fluffy Empire of Peace. Or maybe, concerning Ukraine specifically, Merv just hasn't heard of the Holodomor.

[Merv]

Re: Ukraine

The events in the Ukraine are a Western-orchestrated attempt to seize the linchpin to Russia's restoration of its empire. True or not, the Western thesis for quite a while (including one held by the likes of Brzezinski) is that without Ukraine, Russia is a country, but that with Ukraine it is an empire.

The Western Ukrainians centered in places like Lvov are neo-Nazis whose hate and violence against Poles, xxxs, and Russians is well known. They engaged in genocide in WWII against xxxs, in mass murder of Poles in Volynia and Galicia at that time, in manning Hitler's concentration camps in Poland and Germany, and in SS divisions that murdered Russians during Operation Barbarossa.

The Western Ukrainians have nothing to do with the Russian-speaking Eastern Orthodox Eastern/Southern Ukrainians. They are proteges of Western interests in penetrating the former Russian empire all the way to the Caucasus, in cutting Russia off from the Black Sea, in stealing Caspian oil and the grain of the steppe.

Russia has been in an existential struggle with the West for the past 200 years, which has assaulted Russia 4 times during that period. Russia has assaulted the West 0 times in that time period. We had Napoleon, the (first) Crimean War, WWI, and WWII. In each instant, the West has been brutally crushing both Russian interests, her people, and other peoples who might be sympathetic to Russia. They have used puppet states (Grand Duchy of Warsaw, Saakashvili's Georgia), proxy wars (Austria-Hungary vs. Serbia, Georgia vs. S. Ossetia), mass murder of Russian POWs, slave labor, terror bombing, incitement of insurrections (Crimean Tatars, Chechens in WWII and 1990s), colored revolutions (Rose, Orange, etc.), coup d'etats, etc. all with the intent of annexing territory and expelling Russia as a dominant (and currently, the dominant) power in Eurasia.

Russia cannot afford to have Ukraine torn from her grasp. If Putin is savvy, he will work to have the entire Black Sea coast, eastern industrial cities, and Kiev itself back in the Russian orbit. The western part can go off to be with Poland, Lithuania, and Germany.

[Haykakan]

Re: Ukraine

Why the Russians in Ukraine need to worry

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/03/the-nature-of-war-has-changed/

[Haykakan]

Re: Ukraine

Something to read

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/04/ukraine-omidyar-and-the-neo-liberal-agenda/

[HermanGerman]

Re: Ukraine

Ukraine Crisis - V. Putin's latest Press Conference [04.03.2014]