What religion are you?

[Armanen]

Re: What religion are you?

Shame that so many members of an ethnicity known for its intellect believe in fairytales based on a book put together 2k years ago, which is comprised of plagiarized stories stolen from mythologies and folklore that came LOOOOONG before Jesus supposedly ever arrived.

Understand that I am a gnostic Christian and I realize the True underpinnings of Christianity, which has little to do with the modern bs term, judeo-christianity. Those so called fairy tales shouldn't be taken as history but rather a way to live ones life, guidelines if you will. In the end I do not care if you are a Christian or not because it doesn't translate into you being a good or bad person. I care that you are working toward helping Armenia in some way. However, at the end of it all, you are playing Russian roulette with yourself. See if there is a Creator or God, and you have belief/faith and are a good person, according to the teachings of Christianity you have eternal life. But on the other hand if you are a good person and an atheist, theoretically it's bye bye. I don't care too much about details like this, but I do KNOW there is a GOD. So when judgement day comes for you, I hope you have some answers ready.

[Siggie]

Re: What religion are you?

Understand that I am a gnostic Christian and I realize the True underpinnings of Christianity, which has little to do with the modern bs term, judeo-christianity. Those so called fairy tales shouldn't be taken as history but rather a way to live ones life, guidelines if you will. In the end I do not care if you are a Christian or not because it doesn't translate into you being a good or bad person. I care that you are working toward helping Armenia in some way. However, at the end of it all, you are playing Russian roulette with yourself. See if there is a Creator or God, and you have belief/faith and are a good person, according to the teachings of Christianity you have eternal life. But on the other hand if you are a good person and an atheist, theoretically it's bye bye. I don't care too much about details like this, but I do KNOW there is a GOD. So when judgement day comes for you, I hope you have some answers ready.

I realize the bible is full of contradictions and I don't have one (nor the time) to find references, but it does say that all will be judged and that includes nonbelievers. So, if someone doesn't believe yet lives an "approved" life otherwise, theoretically they may still be "saved." Your claim doesn't make sense because it would mean that everyone before Christ went to hell (including Mary and Joseph?).

[Armanen]

Re: What religion are you?

Any establishment religion ruins the original tenants of that religion, so I agree with parts of what you said Arteom.

But like Mouse said, even if you are not a Christian or religious/spiratual, you should still support the Armenian Church for what it has done for Armenians and continues to do, the cultural role it plays should be respected. If all the non believers here do that then fine, to each his own and I have no problem with your indifference to religion. But if you are the hostile type of atheist, and don't disrespect the Armenian Church, then I feel you are not a True Armenian, as you are hating on a core part of Armenian identity. Not sure which category the non believers fall into, except for Mouse, but I think it would be helpful if you guys clarified it.

[Armanen]

Re: What religion are you?

I realize the bible is full of contradictions and I don't have one (nor the time) to find references, but it does say that all will be judged and that includes nonbelievers. So, if someone doesn't believe yet lives an "approved" life otherwise, theoretically they may still be "saved." Your claim doesn't make sense because it would mean that everyone before Christ went to hell (including Mary and Joseph?).

I didn't make that claim. God has always existed and the teachings of Christ have been revealed countless times in countless places. Once again please understand that I am not part of the bs judeo-christian branch. Look into Christian mysticism, Zoroastrianism and read Armenian's thread about the non judaic nature of Christ in order to get a better idea of my spiratual/religious beliefs.

[Siggie]

Re: What religion are you?

I didn't make that claim. God has always existed and the teachings of Christ have been revealed countless times in countless places. Once again please understand that I am not part of the bs judeo-christian branch. Look into Christian mysticism, Zoroastrianism and read Armenian's thread about the non judaic nature of Christ in order to get a better idea of my spiratual/religious beliefs.

If you cannot or are unwilling to briefly state how your beliefs differ, then I suppose I can go without knowing. I have more to do than time to do it in and reading about religion is not at the top of that list.

But if you are the hostile type of atheist, and don't disrespect the Armenian Church, then I feel you are not a True Armenian, as you are hating on a core part of Armenian identity. Not sure which category the non believers fall into, except for Mouse, but I think it would be helpful if you guys clarified it.

Why do you feel you need to identify who is which type of non-believer? Why does it matter?

I'll tell you more because it hardly matters after what I've already disclosed.

I don't know what a hostile type of atheist is in your opinion, but I do not believe I am one. Those that are believers are free to be so. The only time I open my mouth (and not always even then) is when they represent religion, the belief in god, etc as anything but faith-based.

I celebrate holidays with my family for the cultural significance as well. My family is aware of my (lack of) belief and I, theirs and we let the other be. They don't try to persuade me and I don't try to persuade them. If I am invited to baptisms, weddings, funerals, etc which are church affiliated I still go. After much insistence from my grandmother I went to church on my own to light a candle after not having darkened the door of a church for years.
I don't know if I would get married in the church or take religious vows. My own preference would be not to, but since I wouldn't be marrying myself nor the only one in attendance, I'll cross that bridge when/if I come to it.

[jgk3]

Re: What religion are you?

I didn't make that claim. God has always existed and the teachings of Christ have been revealed countless times in countless places. Once again please understand that I am not part of the bs judeo-christian branch. Look into Christian mysticism, Zoroastrianism and read Armenian's thread about the non judaic nature of Christ in order to get a better idea of my spiratual/religious beliefs.

I definitely agree that the Armenian Apostolic Church is an integral part of our cultural identity.

Armanen, does Gnostic Christianity have anything to do with finding God in yourself and in others, thus eliminating the sense that he is detached from our "plane of existence" you might say, and further eliminating the notion that there cannot be an underlying spiritual unity for all people? From what I understand already, Gnostic Christianity involves looking at how Jesus lived his life as a guide for how we should strive to live on Earth to attain spiritual ascension, rather than merely following his parables, mourning his death, celebrating his resurrection, etc...

What are your thoughts on the tenet of forgiveness?

What does your understanding of Gnostic Christianity lead you to think about your enemies, such as Turks?

If these are explained in Armenian's thread, tell me where to look.

[Armanen]

Re: What religion are you?

I believe Christianity is one of many paths to the Divine, for me it is the best path, and others are free to choose their own.

I do not believe Christ only appeared in the person of Jesus of Nazarath.

I don't think one must attend church on a regular basis to have a connection with God, a church can help that connection and in other cases hinder it by straying one from the profound yet simple tenants of Christianity. Establishment religion has given religion/spiratuality a bad name.

I don't put much, if any, emphasis on the old testament.

These are a few general beliefs I adhere to.


By hostile atheist I mean the kind like richard dawkins. It seems you do not fall into this category after telling me a little bit about your interaction with your family and friends.

Finally, I am not sure what other reasons were given to you for the existence of God, but I know that God does exist and for me that is enough. If you or someone else doesn't believe in God then so be it, it's up to the individual to find God in what manner they may. If your atheist views are good enough for you then so be it, to each his own. Like you, the one thing I can't stand is people shoving their ideology down the throat of others.

[Armanen]

Re: What religion are you?

I definitely agree that the Armenian Apostolic Church is an integral part of our cultural identity.

Armanen, does Gnostic Christianity have anything to do with finding God in yourself and in others, thus eliminating the sense that he is detached from our "plane of existence" you might say, and further eliminating the notion that there cannot be an underlying spiritual unity for all people? From what I understand already, Gnostic Christianity involves looking at how Jesus lived his life as a guide for how we should strive to live on Earth to attain spiritual ascension, rather than merely following his parables, mourning his death, celebrating his resurrection, etc...

What are your thoughts on the tenet of forgiveness?

What does your understanding of Gnostic Christianity lead you to think about your enemies, such as Turks?

If these are explained in Armenian's thread, tell me where to look.

Since I believe in the notion of a soul, which I deem to be a part of the Divine, I see no reason why one can't reach union with God, or nirvana. I think the positive energy of a person, as it develops more toward the representation of the Divine, can eventually unite with God. This could theoretically occur while one is still alive or immediately after his death.

One should study and look at the lives of all the great Truth bringers of history, not just Jesus, and in all of them I think you will see at least a glimmer of the Divine/Christ.

I believe in forgive but never forget.

The turkish government is my enemy, not an individual turk. But knowing that 99% of turks would stand up for their government against us, and other enemies of the turkish government, it makes me more careful when dealing with turks. I have met a few turks who admit to the Genocide and therefore I do not have reason to dislike them, I wish more of their countrymen were like them. My spiratual beliefs have led me to understand that a person should be treated by how he treats others, sort of like the Golden Rule. The bottom line is the character of the person.

I have yet to memorize Armenians thread.

[Siggie]

Re: What religion are you?

By hostile atheist I mean the kind like richard dawkins. It seems you do not fall into this category after telling me a little bit about your interaction with your family and friends.

At the risk of having my newly granted non-hostile status revoked ...
Is your problem with Dawkins that he publishes his views?

[Armanen]

Re: What religion are you?

My problem with dawkins is that he is a pompous prick (personality wise) and tries to disprove the existence of something which can't be proven/disproven by science.


[quote-Mouse]The statement "I do not believe in God" is much different from the statement "God does not exist." The initial exhibits caution and a deference to the limitations of the human senses (and boy are the human senses limited), while the latter exhibits a pomp and arrogance which can only be indicative of ignorance and denial of the limitation of the human senses.

So in effect, no one really knows whether God exists or not, because our senses are limited since we cannot prove or disprove the existence of an immaterial being by using the criteria (science) of the material world. As such, all such statements and musings in this topic are a matter of belief, whether atheists like to admit it or not. There is no point at which we do not believe something. To not believe in God is still a belief.[/quote]