Parenting

[Anonymouse]

ALRIGHTY!

wow we have some really sexist people here... thats great, i will enjoy enlightening you... bringing you to the 21st century...

welcome my sweet armenian boys... this is the 21st century...

we here in this century, dont force people to do things they dont want to do, we also believe that people are socially constructed, and ideoligy, religion, culture are all social conditions created by people for people... we here in the 21st century believe that a man and a woman should work the same and get paid the same... they should take off time to look after their kids the same.... they should have 50% of the household duties...

i am not giving a bad name to feminism, i am a feminist, and i am always going to be a feminist, and ladies and gentlemen, the WORD feminism, means equality between genders... boy am i glad you brought up that word... HA!

WOW! what a concept, i said that sex roles are different from gender roles... thats right, i am certainly not a marxist for saying that... i am if anything else... a Margret Mead-est- if that is possible, she was one of the leaders in the feminist movement and she was the one who studied cultures, and concluded that culture shapes gender roles...

the best example of this is Armenians vs. Russians

Armenian men - work all day long, dont do any household chors, do not raise childern, and are emotionally cold, they do not cook do not clean, do not sit there and help with hmwk, etc...
Armenian women - they are the cooks, the cleaners, the working mothers, the drivers to every event, they are the main emotional, cultural, and tradition TEACHERS of our culture... MAYRENI LEZU, MAYR HAYASTAN,

Russian men - most of them work but they stay home to take care of their kids a lot more then the women, they buy the groceries, cook, clean, and help with the hmwk, etc... etc... etc...
Russian women - they are the construction workers they are BIG RIG drivers, they are in the military, they hold high office level positions, and they drink vodka, like CRAZY! and the men are the ones who drive home sober with the drunk siginificant other (the woman) and the women are the ones who are actaully beating their husbands...

now the russian woman is born with the EXACT same biological characteristics as the Armenian women, but we are like flowers, and they are like TREES and we are too fragile, and they are TOUGH... etc... etc... etc...

this is called gender roles vs. sex roles...

once again, feminism definition by the people who invented it... is ... drum roll, EQUALITY BETWEEN GENDERS... TA DAAAAAA...

read up, i will post the book recomendation thread, and i will recomend the book on this issue...

i appreciate your comments and i dont think you are bad people, but i also dont think that i am a bad person... i dont know everything, or will i ever, but i try my best to read up on issues and be informed and thats all folks...

dont talk about my little brother, or i will find out where you live and beat you to a bloody pulp... now i am not physically capable of this, because i am little, and i dont weigh much... but i will challenge you to a verbal agrument... but please dont ever ever ever EVER mention nunechkas little brother...

he is smart and he is well rounded... he does not see me in a lesser light because i am woman, he brings me water and i bring him water, and he is very clever for his age...

[XxgoeyxX]

Okay so here is my point on parenting. The reason why I believe man and woman cannot be equal is because they are different from each other. I am not talking about quality as in he can and should do the laundry or wake up in the middle of the night to changing the baby's dipper. That has nothing to do with equality. That has to do with family and helping one another. If you are married and have children or want to have children, that means both parents become one to take care of that child. It does not matter if the mother cooks and the father cleans. If doesn’t matter that the father should and must wash the dishes. This as nothing to do with parenting.
However, man and woman being equal is not possible because their ways of parenting is different. The man has the father role and the woman has the mother role. How much more different can it be?

And the thing you posted about Armenian man nune. I just think that’s some part of it. Not all-Armenian men are like that. My father for example isnt the type that “work all day long, don’t do any household chores, do not raise children, and are emotionally cold, they do not cook do not clean, do not sit there and help with hmwk, etc...” as you stated. Nope he doesn’t do that…he was just apart of raising us as my mother was. But my fathers views and my fathers beliefs and my fathers attitude is different then my mother. Just bc he is the “man of the house” it doesn’t mean he controls my mother. He states what he feels is wrong and so does my mother then as a family we come up with the right conclusion.

I just think anony’s way of thought is being turned upside down. And I don’t think he wants his wife to be superwomen. and im sure is isnt going to go to armenia to find a wife....that would make me laugh...actually....in fact I think he is he is describing the true nature of being a woman and the true nature of being a man. And how they are different from each other, therefore they can never be truly equal…….

Is that what you meant Mr. Mousie….correct me if im wrong!

[sleuth]

You missed my point. But that's okay.

No!! Mousy ,you missed my point...word traditional have tremendous impact on your phsicology.I didn’t mean to equalize women and men. I know that both genders mission in family is different but vision is the same. I am talking about vision. how you see yourself us a father ,not as a husband.whats your role as a FATHER. I didn’t mean to put men in a kitchen a make cook out of him. NO WAY!!!! Get out of my kitchen already. My kitchen is my kingdom and I am not going to share it with my husband (oh well he can make xorovac or have fun time to time for the sake of fun). Back to my original question:, since women have traditionally been the only parents to really raise their children, nurturing has usually been thought of as a feminine characteristic, whats the fathers role in child’s life,whats your mission in your kids life. Being just a provider is not enough, are you ready to get involved in your kids life emotionally.?

[nunechka]

lol geoy, different, equal, different equal... look i am not saying that they are not different, i am different from you even though we are both women... but equality is not the same as the mother role and the father role... this is not the same thing...

lets say you had this type of mother and father: mom is telling dad what to do all the time, and you find your dad crying in the corner all the time... he is like a lesser person this way... well i would say that in this case mom and dad do not have an equal role in raising their kids... so mom gets to control everything... but poor dad he has no say so because mom is a fanatic... if mom says change diper dad will change diper, and mom doesnt do anything like that... she goes to work comes home puts her feet up on the table and says whats for dinner hun? and he says "honey we are having dolma, i hope you like it" and as they eat MOMMY says, there is not enough salt in this, what have i told you about this... and so daddy feels terrible and is sorry for making such a terrible mistake, after all he went to work this morning, had a bad day, went to pick up the kids took them to piano lessons, and while the kids were at their lessons, daddy went to the store to buy the meat and the leaves and the cabbage and when he got home, he was very tired and he thought he put the salt in but, OOPS forgot, and mommy is pissed off and says BRING ME THE SALT... damn men cant cook...

this is the equality that i am always referring to... and i dont think that people should be like robots and do the same thing... but its obvious that there are moms and dads that when you observe what they do you see a pattern of submissiveness and dominance... when one is submissive and the other is dominent and NOT by personality... but being over taken and manipulated, by either family or their siginificant other...
i had a friend whose momy made her get married as soon as she graduated high school, and her husband beat her all the time and all of us friends kept telling her to leave him, but she couldnt because her momy told her that she must not do harm to the family name, so one day, my friend was beated (very recently) so bad that she had a heartattack... they took her to the hospital and as soon as she got better she ran away and went to her home but had to sneak in through the window because her mom and dad had gone to armenia without telling her... so her aunt came to look over the house and found my poor little ill friend living there...
THAT relationship was not equal, and that is the equality that must be placed in a relationship... owner vs. slave, domination vs. submissiveness...

all this happen just to someone who lives in PASADENA, CA. about 3 years ago...

so equality, marriage, parenting... equality is not the role... that doesnt make sence... equality is level of the individuals capability to make decisions, to be heard and to be respected... but in this relationship and lots of others, with different conditions, equality is not present...

so when my mom says to my dad, should we let (my little brother) go to the camp for a week, it isnt just my dad making the parental decision, it is my mom too... but in some families it is only ONE person... and people fear that person and they obey that person as if they are the dominent one...

equality in parenting or in any other context is not the same thing as the different roles we play in our lives...

i play many roles; i am a daughter, a woman, a professional financial analyst, a girlfriend, a friend, a cousin, an aunt... but my role in these relationships, are different,
- when i am a daughter i am not the same as when i am a friend, in both cases i am a woman but i am different... am i equal? i hope so... i hope my friends see me equal to them and i hope my boyfriend sees me equal to him...

and that is my point... i know i got angry at first, but i am sorry... at work i had more to do today then many other days of my job... its because the month of august fiscal year 2004 closed and i had to close the accounts, make repors and prepare analysis for submission to upper mgmt, essentially that is NASA and the congress...

so forgive my lashing out, i only have good intentions...

thanks for reading my long comments...

[nunechka]

i am insulted by the communist reference, however it is comforting to know that you have sunk to that level... LOL

now you can declare a cold war with me like the americans...

BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO!

[XxgoeyxX]

seee...explaining yourself makes me understand what you mean. And im sorry about your friend. That is sad very sad indeed. But I havnt seen such things..so that is not how I view man and/or Armenian man. Thank the Gods my daddy isnt crazy and my mommy isnt a xxxxx...oppsss bad word!!!

[nunechka]

goey, i am glad that this is the case for you... but i know Armenian families whose lives are this way day in and day out... luckly my parents respect and love each other, they cant stand to be without each other...

but my other friends mom and dad got divorced and HE got married within 6 months... WTF i bet is what you are saying, but yes its true after a 25 year marriage they divorce and he gets married within 6 months... LOL! HA!

but you should see my friends mother, she is a professional woman, working and the all the kids lvie with HER not him... that cant be fare, but its life... and you know how armenians can be...

[thedebutante]

ALRIGHTY!

wow we have some really sexist people here... thats great, i will enjoy enlightening you... bringing you to the 21st century...

welcome my sweet armenian boys... this is the 21st century...

we here in this century, dont force people to do things they dont want to do, we also believe that people are socially constructed, and ideoligy, religion, culture are all social conditions created by people for people... we here in the 21st century believe that a man and a woman should work the same and get paid the same... they should take off time to look after their kids the same.... they should have 50% of the household duties...

i am not giving a bad name to feminism, i am a feminist, and i am always going to be a feminist, and ladies and gentlemen, the WORD feminism, means equality between genders... boy am i glad you brought up that word... HA!

WOW! what a concept, i said that sex roles are different from gender roles... thats right, i am certainly not a marxist for saying that... i am if anything else... a Margret Mead-est- if that is possible, she was one of the leaders in the feminist movement and she was the one who studied cultures, and concluded that culture shapes gender roles...

the best example of this is Armenians vs. Russians

Armenian men - work all day long, dont do any household chors, do not raise childern, and are emotionally cold, they do not cook do not clean, do not sit there and help with hmwk, etc...
Armenian women - they are the cooks, the cleaners, the working mothers, the drivers to every event, they are the main emotional, cultural, and tradition TEACHERS of our culture... MAYRENI LEZU, MAYR HAYASTAN,

Russian men - most of them work but they stay home to take care of their kids a lot more then the women, they buy the groceries, cook, clean, and help with the hmwk, etc... etc... etc...
Russian women - they are the construction workers they are BIG RIG drivers, they are in the military, they hold high office level positions, and they drink vodka, like CRAZY! and the men are the ones who drive home sober with the drunk siginificant other (the woman) and the women are the ones who are actaully beating their husbands...

now the russian woman is born with the EXACT same biological characteristics as the Armenian women, but we are like flowers, and they are like TREES and we are too fragile, and they are TOUGH... etc... etc... etc...

this is called gender roles vs. sex roles...

once again, feminism definition by the people who invented it... is ... drum roll, EQUALITY BETWEEN GENDERS... TA DAAAAAA...

read up, i will post the book recomendation thread, and i will recomend the book on this issue...

i appreciate your comments and i dont think you are bad people, but i also dont think that i am a bad person... i dont know everything, or will i ever, but i try my best to read up on issues and be informed and thats all folks...

dont talk about my little brother, or i will find out where you live and beat you to a bloody pulp... now i am not physically capable of this, because i am little, and i dont weigh much... but i will challenge you to a verbal agrument... but please dont ever ever ever EVER mention nunechkas little brother...

he is smart and he is well rounded... he does not see me in a lesser light because i am woman, he brings me water and i bring him water, and he is very clever for his age...

Hun, chillax. First, I am a girl and sexist is the last word anyone would ever use to describe me. I respect much of what advocates of gender equality have to say and I personally know and admire Dr. Friedman, one of the most well-known documenters of feminist theory. However, my argument is that no two humans could ever be truly equal.

Anyway, I'm not looking to pick an argument here because there is no reason for me to force my opinions on anyone. In addition, the only reason I know you have a brother is because YOU mentioned him first in your futile effort to call me stupid.

Moreover, please try not to take things personally. No one thinks that you are a bad person. You kind of started with the wrong attitude and decided that this is about attacking people's intelligence rather than their opinions.

[XxgoeyxX]

goey, i am glad that this is the case for you... but i know Armenian families whose lives are this way day in and day out... luckly my parents respect and love each other, they cant stand to be without each other...

but my other friends mom and dad got divorced and HE got married within 6 months... WTF i bet is what you are saying, but yes its true after a 25 year marriage they divorce and he gets married within 6 months... LOL! HA!

but you should see my friends mother, she is a professional woman, working and the all the kids lvie with HER not him... that cant be fare, but its life... and you know how armenians can be...

Okay this might end up being moved to a new thread.

anywho...."professional woman"...maybe that ended the relationship. If you are speaking about Armenian man dont you feel that most of them dont want a wife like that. And because she is a career woman her husband feels it is wrong.

And so what if they are living with their mother. Its not how Armenians can be...its how human beings can be. If he doesnt want to raise his children bc he likes his new wife more then he isnt a man nor is he human being for that matter.

And 6 months..loll..im sure he was seeing her longer then that....what a man what a man...

[SagGal]

Just because you see a majority of a certain culture parenting a certain way, does not make it official for all the people of that culture. Gosh I hope that sentence made sense.

Yes, it is the 21st century. Things change in time. I don't think that we can label an Armenian man or woman. We can't and shouldn't say, "OK, this is what an Armenian man does and this is what an Armenian woman does." I mean, we're talking about people's personalities here. That is just not right.

...dont do any household chors, do not raise childern, and are emotionally cold, they do not cook do not clean, do not sit there and help with hmwk, etc...

Now if you'll look at the words I made bold, that is what I disagree with. Plus, you just made me really appreciate my dad. I'll use him as an example. He is an Armenian man, husband, and father. OK, so he doesn't cry and is not as emotional as women, but that is just how practically ALL men are. Most men are not as emotional as women. I think that is a fact. Now, talking about my dad. Oh, and remind me. Why doesn't an Armenian man help his child with homework? Is that a feminine thing? I remember my dad always helping me with Physics (I hate that oh so hooooooorriiiiiiiiible topic). So, does that suggest him being a non Armenian? Geat real.

I absolutely hate fathers who say, "I'm the father and a husband, therefore I am a provider, so I bring a paycheck and my wife, the mother of my children takes care of the kids." If you honestly love your child, you'd never say that because you would want to be in your child's life more than ever. You will worry your head off about your child. What they're thinking, doing, going through, and etc. I know that a lot of young men right now are saying, "My wife will look after the kids because she is the mother." BS! You don't know any of this until you become a parent.

Parents do have seperate roles but there should never be a parent who is dominant over the other parent because that is very bad for the child. For example, if the child (especially a boy) sees that a father is the dominant one in the family, the boy will think that it is fine to talk back to his mom and as the boy grows in a houshold where the mother is the powerless one, he will not be as close to his mom as he would be to his dad.